The Secrets of Infallibility

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#41
Well, Peter says if you do these things you shall never fall in 2 Peter 1...

Please may I get your 'right interpretation please?'
When I read that verse I do not see it in the same way that you do. When I think of not stumbling I consider it a heart issue, and a confidence in our calling and election. Almost like a confirmation. To not be tossed to and fro but to be steadfast.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#42
I think that if all things are possible with God then sinlessness in the flesh is possible (after being born-again). I am not saying that is our goal, because it isn't. Throughout life we will continue to grow in righteousness by nature of our relationship with God as our Father. It is God that sanctifies us. However I cannot dismiss the possibility of such a reality. I can be honest with myself and whether I believe I can attain that or not, whether I am in such a place of surrender.

It is wrong to preach perfection to the degree that we would rob believers of their peace. Their peace in that of their justification before God. Any condemnation of this sort is theft, as we would be robbing them of their confidence to boldly approach God based upon the blood of Christ. Our relationship with the Lord is not found in merit, or self-righteousness. It is based in Christ and Him crucified.

Sinless perfection would be nice, but we cannot preach a doctrine of belief that doesn't permit sin without causing one to question the validity of their conversion. It is for this reason that preaching perfection is dangerous. This is why Adstar is so stirred up. It is a fine line to preach holiness and to demand it.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#43
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ”—2Peter 1:10-11

The word translated as “fall” in the above opening text, is from the Greek word ‘ptaio’ meaning ‘to trip’. Which in other words means: to err, sin, fail or stumble concerning salvation. So the statement “ye shall never fall”, as used in our opening text means:

  • You shall never fall into error, such as heresy and delusion.

  • You shall never fall into sin, especially habitual sin.

  • You shall never fail or stumble concerning your eternal salvation. Such as falling into apostasy and agnosticism.
These definitions are flawless, given the preceding statements and the immediate accompanying verse as stated in the opening text…

The preceding statement says: “Give diligence to make your calling and election sure”. Your calling and election here, refers to our calling and election of grace. Which in a phrase means, “Eternal Salvation”. The immediate following verse confirms this. It says, “For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ”—2Peter 1:11

Hence, the Apostle Peter—by the Spirit—reveals to us, that there are certain spiritual secrets or keys which if we diligently engage, can certainly make us infallible. These spiritual secrets make us infallible to spiritual errors. They make us infallible to sin—especially habitual sin. And most importantly, they make us infallible from our calling and election in Christ Jesus, which is or call to Eternal Salvation and Life.

So What Are These Infallibility Secrets?

Simon Peter , a servant and an Apostle of Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”—2Peter 1:1-11

From the above quoted scripture, the Apostle Peter by the Spirit, delivers Eight powerful spiritual secrets that guarantees our infallibility from our calling and election of Grace. So we are going to consider these secrets, so we can better understand them, and consequently be able to diligently walk in them, as the word of God admonishes us.

Here are these infallibility keys.

  • Faith: First on the list of these infallibility keys is faith. Every born again child of God has same measure and spirit of faith, given to him or her, at salvation. And no believer has more quantity of faith than another. We all have the mountain moving faith (Romans 12:3; 2Corinthians 4:13). Then to live an infallible life, you must always engage your faith. You must walk by faith and not by sight concerning every area of life (1 Corinthians 5:7). The word of God says, the Just shall live by faith (Hebrews 10:38).

  • Virtue: The word translated as virtue in the context of the second book of Peter as we quoted earlier, is from the Greek word, “arête” properly meaning, manliness or valor. In other words, excellence. That is, being extremely good or being the best in everything we do. You know, the Lord says we shall be the head and not the tail (Deuteronomy 28:13). A very good scriptural example of virtuousness is the virtuous woman described in proverbs 31:10-29. So another great key of infallibility, according to scripture is excellence, through diligence, in everything we do. Including our service to God. To this end, the word of God tells us, whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with thy might (Ecclesiastes 9:10).

  • Knowledge: Knowledge here refers to the revelational knowledge of God’s word as revealed by the Holy Ghost from scriptures. And it comes by consistent bible study, meditation and prayers. To walk in spiritual infallibility then, you must as a lifestyle, hunt for the revelational knowledge of God’s word. And as you receive these revelational knowledge, you must live them out to be infallible.

  • Temperance: Another word for temperance is self-control or self-discipline. The word of God tells us we already have in us, the spirit of sound mind or self-discipline (2 Timothy 1:7). And the Apostle Peter also lists it here as one of the secrets of infallibility. Thus, to walk in infallibility, we must walk in self-control; which is another word for temperance, sound mind, self-discipline or sobriety. We must discipline ourselves in what we say, how we eat; sexually; in how we dress; and in every other things.

  • Patience: Patience as used in the book of Peter we are expounding here is from the Greek word, “hypomone” meaning, cheerful or hopeful endurance or constancy. It is also translated as patience continuance. To be infallible in our calling and election in Christ Jesus, we must exercise patience in our walk with God. We are to hopefully endure whatever affliction or tribulation that comes our way without any iota of wavering even unto death. We must be patient in our profession and exercise of faith and love. Even when we don’t get the desired result the word of God promises. We must not for any reason cast away our confidence and draw back unto perdition. Rather, we must patiently believe unto the saving of our souls (Hebrews 10:35-39).

  • Godliness: Godliness is another key we are admonished to add to our faith for infallibility. Godliness is another word for holiness. That is sanctification. Godliness is Separation from sin and separating to God. It is living above sin. The word of God says we must pursue peace with all men and holiness, without which no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). So if we want to see God in our lives now and in eternity, we must walk in Godliness or holiness (sanctification).

  • Brotherly Kindness: Brotherly Kindness is from the Greek word “Philadelphia”, which means, fraternal affection. It is another word for brotherly love or love of the brethren. It is the love or kindness between brothers and sisters. It is the burden bearing love between brethren in the Lord. If we walk in this affection, the word of God says we shall never fall. This is one of the secrets of infallibility. It is this kind of love that obeys God’s second greatest commandment – Love thy neighbour as thyself (Matthew 22:39).

  • Charity: Charity is from the Greek word ‘agape’ meaning Love. I believe this key should top the list of the secrets of infallibility, that’s why the Apostle Peter listed it last. Charity in most scriptural context encapsulates or includes brotherly kindness as we just expounded above. It is an affection poured in the heart, only by the Holy Ghost.

    It is affection from God, towards God, and people. Charity is affection or benevolence that goes beyond brotherhood. Charity is divine affection that spreads even to the undeserving. To this end, it is superior to Philadelphia, which is just brotherly love. Charity (agape) is a forgiving and forbearing love. And it is the greatest key for infallibility in Christ. But however, it must be combined with the other seven keys for maximum manifestation and effect.
So there you have it. According to the scripture, these eight secrets or keys are the biblical secrets to infallibility from our calling and election of grace.

Remain Blessed!

Emeke Odili
Growing in Grace 2 Peter 1: 5-8

5“And beside this (Salvation), giving all diligence (refers to the responsibility we as Believers must show regarding the Christian life), add to your Faith Virtue (this is Faith in the Cross, which will bring “Virtue”; the type of “Virtue” mentioned here is “energy” and “power”); and to Virtue knowledge (this is the type of knowledge which keeps expanding);

6 And to knowledge temperance (self-control); and to temperance patience (our conduct must honor God at all times, even in the midst of trials and testing); and to patience godliness (being like God);

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness (carries the idea of treating everyone as if they were our own flesh and blood “brother” or “sister”); and to brotherly kindness charity (love).

“8 For if these things be in you, and abound (continue to expand), they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Once again, this “knowledge” refers to what Christ did at the Cross, all on our behalf.)

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#44
Growing in Grace 2 Peter 1:9-11

“9 But he who lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off (the reason one may lack these things is he is spiritually blind; in other words, such a one has made something other than the Cross the Object of His Faith), and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (Such a Believer is once again being ruled by the “sin nature” exactly as he was before conversion, which is always the end result of ignoring the Cross.)

10 Wherefore the rather, Brethren, give diligence to make your Calling and Election sure (this is what Jesus was speaking of when He told us to deny ourselves and take up the Cross daily and follow Him [Lk. 9:23]; every day, the Believer must make certain His Faith is anchored in the Cross and the Cross alone; only then can we realize the tremendous benefits afforded by the Sacrifice of Christ): for if you do these things, you shall never fall (presents the key to Eternal Security, but with the Promise being conditional):

“11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the Everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (The entrance into the Kingdom is solely on the basis of Faith evidenced in Christ and the Cross [Eph. 2:13-18; Jn. 3:16].)”

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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#45
When I read that verse I do not see it in the same way that you do. When I think of not stumbling I consider it a heart issue, and a confidence in our calling and election. Almost like a confirmation. To not be tossed to and fro but to be steadfast.
Well, you don't have to see it the way I see it. But all the same, one of my definition of infallibility is in synch with your exegesis. I also talked about being steadfast.

If you accept that at least, to God be all the glory.

You know, I have heard of a Pastor who eventually was cajoled into becoming a Jehovah's Witness. And by the day, many more believers are being swayed into other religion. Why? because they lack the things Peter mentioned. So yes, your exegesis is inline with one of my definitions of 'fall' that Peter referred to.

And of course, that was what I meant by Apostasy, but you said you don't quite agree. For someone to leave true Christianity into other religion, is to become a renegade and an Apostate...

Or what do you think?
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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#46
I think that if all things are possible with God then sinlessness in the flesh is possible (after being born-again). I am not saying that is our goal, because it isn't. Throughout life we will continue to grow in righteousness by nature of our relationship with God as our Father. It is God that sanctifies us. However I cannot dismiss the possibility of such a reality. I can be honest with myself and whether I believe I can attain that or not, whether I am in such a place of surrender.

It is wrong to preach perfection to the degree that we would rob believers of their peace. Their peace in that of their justification before God. Any condemnation of this sort is theft, as we would be robbing them of their confidence to boldly approach God based upon the blood of Christ. Our relationship with the Lord is not found in merit, or self-righteousness. It is based in Christ and Him crucified.

Sinless perfection would be nice, but we cannot preach a doctrine of belief that doesn't permit sin without causing one to question the validity of their conversion. It is for this reason that preaching perfection is dangerous. This is why Adstar is so stirred up. It is a fine line to preach holiness and to demand it.
My Brother, you don't actually need to think that all things are possible with God. The Bible actually says with God all things are possible. So it would be better to believe that 'with God all things (including living above sin) are possible', instead of thinking it.

Well, as for preaching to the degree believers are robbed of their peace, my dear, I won't agree to the fact that it is wrong.

Many believers are robbed of their peace concerning many scriptural truth. And of course, while Jesus and the Apostles preached, many were robbed of their peace as well. And for me to begin to preach what would make people not to be robbed of their peace, would mean that I become men-pleaser instead of God-pleaser...

Well, I rather fear God rather than men.

Everything I preach has scriptural backing....

Or do we pretend that these things are not in the scriptures so we don't offend people?

I believe your answer is as good as mine.

If someone is offended, then let him come with his strong scriptural point. But I won't be swayed by emotional fits or sentiments.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#47
emerkus said:
Well, Peter says if you do these things you shall never fall in 2 Peter 1..
Lets have a look at 2 Peter 1 chapter..

2 Peter 1 KJV

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Note:: Through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ... Not through our own righteousness and achieving a sinless state of existence in life..

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Note:: grace comes though us having the knowledge of God and of Jesus our LORD,, the Gospel.. We do not attain the grace of God through achieving sinlessness..

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Note the divine nature at the time of writing was still a yet to be had promise of God ""might be partakers of the divine nature"" Peter had not achieved sinless infallibility.. It was a future blessing he was promised and had faith he would be gifted.. I believe on the day of His resurrection.. Not in his earthly life..

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Note:: Peter was talking about us loving each other and loving the message of God.. He does not mention above achieving a sinless existence on earth in this flesh.. I agree with the above 3 verses we should seek to do good and be kind and to increase our knowledge of salvation by studying the Bible diligently.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Note:: Peter is talking about all the things we should be doing (good things) Not the things we should not be doing (bad things like sin) What is the fruit of our faith? Love, charity, kindness, temperance. All those good things..

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Yes indeed we where purged of our old sins when we believed Jesus and trusted in the Atonement He secured for us.. But this verse is not saying that we are now without sin.. Went we walk in faith we are continually being purged of our current and future sins..

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So here is the never fall part of the chapter..And all the verses leading up to this verse where about making sure we keep loving others about us doing good and being diligent in seeking the knowledge of salvation its about things we are to do if ye do these things it is not about things we sould cease to do like sinning..

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15 Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

So while Peter was still in his flesh body this tabernacle he was stiring up his fellow saints to focus on doing good, loving others and encouraging them to study the gospel and become more knowledgeable about the will of God,, the Way of salvation.. He was not at all focused in this chapter at trying to get them to attain a sinless state of being on earth..

The rest of the chapter is not relevant to the topic of what Peter was talking about in regards to never falling and the things he was stiring his fellow Saints to do to ensure they never fell..
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com
#48
Lets have a look at 2 Peter 1 chapter..

2 Peter 1 KJV

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Note:: Through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ... Not through our own righteousness and achieving a sinless state of existence in life..

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Note:: grace comes though us having the knowledge of God and of Jesus our LORD,, the Gospel.. We do not attain the grace of God through achieving sinlessness..

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Note the divine nature at the time of writing was still a yet to be had promise of God ""might be partakers of the divine nature"" Peter had not achieved sinless infallibility.. It was a future blessing he was promised and had faith he would be gifted.. I believe on the day of His resurrection.. Not in his earthly life..

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Note:: Peter was talking about us loving each other and loving the message of God.. He does not mention above achieving a sinless existence on earth in this flesh.. I agree with the above 3 verses we should seek to do good and be kind and to increase our knowledge of salvation by studying the Bible diligently.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Note:: Peter is talking about all the things we should be doing (good things) Not the things we should not be doing (bad things like sin) What is the fruit of our faith? Love, charity, kindness, temperance. All those good things..

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Yes indeed we where purged of our old sins when we believed Jesus and trusted in the Atonement He secured for us.. But this verse is not saying that we are now without sin.. Went we walk in faith we are continually being purged of our current and future sins..

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So here is the never fall part of the chapter..And all the verses leading up to this verse where about making sure we keep loving others about us doing good and being diligent in seeking the knowledge of salvation its about things we are to do if ye do these things it is not about things we sould cease to do like sinning..

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15 Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

So while Peter was still in his flesh body this tabernacle he was stiring up his fellow saints to focus on doing good, loving others and encouraging them to study the gospel and become more knowledgeable about the will of God,, the Way of salvation.. He was not at all focused in this chapter at trying to get them to attain a sinless state of being on earth..

The rest of the chapter is not relevant to the topic of what Peter was talking about in regards to never falling and the things he was stiring his fellow Saints to do to ensure they never fell..
Now brother, this is a better approach. You are very welcome. I respect the scriptures allots.

I love your exegesis. Even though I don't agree with some part. But I want us to deliberate on the part that pertains to this topic particularly.

And that is the never fall part...

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

I agree with you to a great extent that this scripture talks about what we should do in order not to fall. Not what we are not to do.

Now my question is this....

What are we never to fall to or fall from?

Please answer so we can get the never fall point clear.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,160
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#49
Now brother, this is a better approach. You are very welcome. I respect the scriptures allots.

I love your exegesis. Even though I don't agree with some part. But I want us to deliberate on the part that pertains to this topic particularly.

And that is the never fall part...

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

I agree with you to a great extent that this scripture talks about what we should do in order not to fall. Not what we are not to do.

Now my question is this....

What are we never to fall to or fall from?

Please answer so we can get the never fall point clear.
Fall from salvation.. fall away into Apostasy, false beliefs that do not save.. That's why i believe it is very important to believe the true Gospel and not to mix in our attempts at being righteous in this flesh... That's why i am very firm to say that it is by being justly forgiven our sins that we shall be deemed perfect to enter into the eternal kingdom of God...
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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#50
Fall from salvation.. fall away into Apostasy, false beliefs that do not save.. That's why i believe it is very important to believe the true Gospel and not to mix in our attempts at being righteous in this flesh... That's why i am very firm to say that it is by being justly forgiven our sins that we shall be deemed perfect to enter into the eternal kingdom of God...
Absolutely. Finally, your interpretation now agrees to one of my definition of never fall. I thank God we at least agree at a point.

And the Eight points given by Peter are the things required for us never to fall. Your interpretation shows you agree to this fact.

Alright...

Now concerning the highlighted portion of your quote.

Are you in anyway saying we should not make any attempts at being righteous in the flesh?

Because it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation?

I want to hear from you, so I don't assume anything.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,160
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#51
Absolutely. Finally, your interpretation now agrees to one of my definition of never fall. I thank God we at least agree at a point.

And the Eight points given by Peter are the things required for us never to fall. Your interpretation shows you agree to this fact.

Alright...

Now concerning the highlighted portion of your quote.

Are you in anyway saying we should not make any attempts at being righteous in the flesh?

Because it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation?
No... I never even hinted at having such a positon..

My position is that our attempts at rightiousness should NEVER be seen as playing a part in that which saves us..


I want to hear from you, so I don't assume anything.
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
355
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www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com
#52
No... I never even hinted at having such a positon..

My position is that our attempts at rightiousness should NEVER be seen as playing a part in that which saves us..


I want to hear from you, so I don't assume anything.
I get you very well now. In order words, you mean it doesn't matter whether we live a life of righteousness or not, we'll still make it to heaven.

Right?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#53
I get you very well now. In order words, you mean it doesn't matter whether we live a life of righteousness or not, we'll still make it to heaven.

Right?
What a leading question, haha. Of course that isn't what he is saying, but that is often where the question leads. Licentiousness. A license to sin. However, God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness. The point in saying that our self-righteousness has no merit in our salvation is that our salvation is completely based upon the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Through His act He has imputed His righteousness to us and we have been justified before God. Our righteousness is one of faith.

If our works had a play in our salvation then it wouldn't be a gift, but a debt from God; He would owe it to us. Yet God's word is plain that we have nothing to boast in but the Lord Himself.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#54
Absolutely. Finally, your interpretation now agrees to one of my definition of never fall. I thank God we at least agree at a point.

And the Eight points given by Peter are the things required for us never to fall. Your interpretation shows you agree to this fact.

Alright...

Now concerning the highlighted portion of your quote.

Are you in anyway saying we should not make any attempts at being righteous in the flesh?

Because it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation?

I want to hear from you, so I don't assume anything.
That is where you err. When you start demanding these things (required) as if they maintain our salvation. This is why I differ in your interpretation, because you make it a thing that goes contrary to eternal security that is centered upon Christ.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,160
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#55
I get you very well now. In order words, you mean it doesn't matter whether we live a life of righteousness or not, we'll still make it to heaven.

Right?
We should strive to do good and resist to the best of our ability doing evil.. But in truth if one believes Jesus and trusts in the atonement He secured for our salvation then it matters not how well we have performed in doing good and resisting evil.. We shall still have eternity with Jesus..

As a side note I do not believe we shall spend eternity in heaven.. We shall spend eternity living in the New Jerusalem which will come out of heaven and down to the New Earth.. Read Revelation Chapter 21 and see it..

It is good to read the Bible so you can discover where you have been taught errors..
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#56
We shall spend eternity living in the New Jerusalem which will come out of heaven and down to the New Earth
Not "down to the New Earth" but simply above the earth as a heavenly body. The New Jerusalem is not an ordinary city but practically a *continent* in its dimensions. Furthermore, it will be the source of light for the New Earth.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,453
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#57
Now brother, this is a better approach. You are very welcome. I respect the scriptures allots.

I love your exegesis. Even though I don't agree with some part. But I want us to deliberate on the part that pertains to this topic particularly.

And that is the never fall part...

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

I agree with you to a great extent that this scripture talks about what we should do in order not to fall. Not what we are not to do.

Now my question is this....

What are we never to fall to or fall from?

Please answer so we can get the never fall point clear.
If you do those things denying Christ by being unfaithful (no faith) we will fall from His grace and he will deny the closeness of a relationship. But because he has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it to the end (Philippians 1:6 )" He cannot deny himself that the work of His faith is finished as our faithful Creator He will call a person to repentance so that they then after he turns them towards his own self then they can repent as a form of comfort from the comforter who dwells in the new creature.

2 Timothy 2:12-13 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not (no faith) , yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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#58
What a leading question, haha. Of course that isn't what he is saying, but that is often where the question leads. Licentiousness. A license to sin. However, God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness. The point in saying that our self-righteousness has no merit in our salvation is that our salvation is completely based upon the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Through His act He has imputed His righteousness to us and we have been justified before God. Our righteousness is one of faith.

If our works had a play in our salvation then it wouldn't be a gift, but a debt from God; He would owe it to us. Yet God's word is plain that we have nothing to boast in but the Lord Himself.
Then Sir, I believe we have allots of scriptures to discuss.

But for starters If I may ask Sir, if what you are saying is exactly so, then what do you really think is the essence of pursuing holiness after all...

And why not just live on anyhow we deem fit instead of all the efforts on holiness when we will still make it down to eternity with Christ regardless?

I am coming with scriptures that demand your explanation in lieu of your position. But let me get the answer to the above questions first.
 

emekrus

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2015
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#59
We should strive to do good and resist to the best of our ability doing evil.. But in truth if one believes Jesus and trusts in the atonement He secured for our salvation then it matters not how well we have performed in doing good and resisting evil.. We shall still have eternity with Jesus..

As a side note I do not believe we shall spend eternity in heaven.. We shall spend eternity living in the New Jerusalem which will come out of heaven and down to the New Earth.. Read Revelation Chapter 21 and see it..

It is good to read the Bible so you can discover where you have been taught errors..
Then what is the essence of the striving in the first place?

For your second point I don't have a problem with that. whether heaven on or New Jerusalem we are still talking about paradise or eternity with Christ.That's not the bone of our discussion here. At the appropriate thread, we'll deliberate on that.

then for your last comment, don't be in a haste to make conclusion we are still discussing we'll soon see who is in error or not.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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#60
Brother Emekrus, thank you for this thread it is enlightening, and for speaking in such a concise manner. Half the folks on CC, I am unable to make heads or tales of what they say for their doublespeak. If one were to find fault with your analysis, I would hope they take time to read chapters 2 and 3. Peter makes his point crystal clear.