The serious errors of Oneness/United Pentecostals

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,047
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#41
I am less shocked these days having been on CC for some years now, then I used to be LOL!

I've now heard it all from 'the Lord's prayer is no valid anymore'

to

the Bible is just man's opinion and only the 10 commandments are from God (that one is recent)

people's gotz a screw loose o_O

I have not seen any of those you cite, but I am not the least bit surprised. I love the prayer given us by our Savior, and I think on each line. It is the lORDs Prayer that convinced me to always pray in the fist person plural except for personal petitions. He is good and wonderful to us. As I get older and in someways not able to overcome certin hurdles, His loving care is always right there. If I even think of a need, it is usually met by Him before I nerve up to ask for it. He really does care for each one of us, and I pray you be cared for in this same manner always. I do not question you as not already being cared for, but I pray special care for you because of His incredible love for us all…………….j
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,072
3,445
113
#42
I have not seen any of those you cite, but I am not the least bit surprised. I love the prayer given us by our Savior, and I think on each line. It is the lORDs Prayer that convinced me to always pray in the fist person plural except for personal petitions. He is good and wonderful to us. As I get older and in someways not able to overcome certin hurdles, His loving care is always right there. If I even think of a need, it is usually met by Him before I nerve up to ask for it. He really does care for each one of us, and I pray you be cared for in this same manner always. I do not question you as not already being cared for, but I pray special care for you because of His incredible love for us all…………….j

thank you Jaumel! and may God bless and keep you!

what I expressed has sadly been said on this forum

anyway.....
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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South
adelaiderevival.com
#45
Preaching that everyone who recieves the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues is simply a lie.. A false doctrine..
No it is true doctrine.
The baptism of the Holy spirit is identified in scripture with the accompanying sign or evidence > speaking in a new tongue
AKA speaking in tongues > praying in the Holy Spirit.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,867
113
#46
Au contraire but they do.
Even denying the Biblical teachings and commandments to be baptised by full immersion.
Water baptism has been Christian doctrine and practice from the beginning and yet somehow in the USA
"Christians" have reinvented doctrine, and now a sinner's prayer has replaced the spiritual significance of water baptism.
Where is that in the scriptures?

2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves
teachers to suit their own passions,
4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2Timothy 4: (ESV)
myth = give your heart to Jesus -
truth = … “Brothers, what shall we do?”
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38 (the word of God)
Pictures of Tubs

Waggles, I'm not arguing with you ABOUT your particular beliefs.
I'm just pointing out, in a friendly way, that showing those pictures doesn't support your case.

1. A picture of a baptismal font only proves that some people in the early church had baptismal fonts, and so those particular people were baptizing by immersion.

2. A picture of a baptismal font does not prove very many PARTICULAR beliefs they had ABOUT baptism.
A. It does not prove they thought baptism was an actual condition for salvation.
B. It does not prove they believed in the "Jesus/oneness" movement, or that they held any particular views about the host of various doctrines associated with the Jesus/oneness movement.
C. ALL it proves is that they had baptismal fonts, and they practiced baptism by immersion.

3. As far as I know, most protestants (and thus most members of this forum), believe in water baptism, and in baptism by immersion... so pictures of fonts does nothing to persuade people who already believe in baptism, and it does nothing to support the case of whether baptism is a condition of salvation.
The issue is: whether or not baptism is an actual condition for salvation.
The pictures of fonts have nothing to do with this critical issue you raised... whether or not baptism is a condition for salvation.

In this particular thread I'm NOT arguing with your beliefs;
I'm only pointing out that showing pictures of baptismal fonts is a non sequitur...
it just has nothing to do with whether or not baptism (which we all believe in) is an actual condition for salvation.
* A tub where people dunk themselves, in itself, gives no explanation for "why" they were dunking themselves, exactly how they felt about dunking themselves, or how they felt about lots of other issues. A tub is just a tub.




Waggles, I think you're a nice guy, and I also think you're a very sincere Christian.
I appreciate that.
And in this particular thread, I'm not arguing with you about your beliefs.
I'm only pointing out that pictures of fonts are a non sequitur... they don't have anything to do with your conclusion that baptism is a necessary condition for salvation.
Therefore, you just need to use some better evidence.
I'm making a bit of a fuss on this because a non sequitur isn't a weak evidence, it's a "non evidence."
Since we all have to deal with really harsh people at times, like angry atheists, it's good for all of us if we make a practice of using good, sound evidences.

Hope you've been doing well.
God Bless.

..
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,039
181
63
#47
If anyone thinks it humorous and worthy of berating any denomination in particular be it Mormon, Jw,
I certainly wouldn't include the Mormon Church and Jehovah Witnesses as (Christian) denominations, but would rather describe them as heretical cults!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,023
14,625
113
#48
Hey Waggles.

I don't think posting pictures of baptismal fonts constitutes proof of any particular doctrinal view ABOUT baptism, but only that people in the early church practiced baptism.

That's not something anyone disagrees on.

.
They looked like some awesome hot tubs......
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,233
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South
adelaiderevival.com
#49
The issue is: whether or not baptism is an actual condition for salvation.
So then why is water baptism part of Christian doctrine from the beginning?
Why did even Jesus himself undergo water baptism?
Why are new believers commanded to be water baptised for the remission of their sins?
Why Acts 2:38 - repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins?
Why Romans 6 - an entire chapter on water baptism?

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal
to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Peter 3:21 (ESV)
I believe that water baptism by full immersion is putting a believer's repentance into action.
Denying self-will and dead works and learning to submit to the commandments of God.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,867
113
#50
So then why is water baptism part of Christian doctrine from the beginning?
Why did even Jesus himself undergo water baptism?
Why are new believers commanded to be water baptised for the remission of their sins?
Why Acts 2:38 - repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins?
Why Romans 6 - an entire chapter on water baptism?

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal
to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Peter 3:21 (ESV)
I believe that water baptism by full immersion is putting a believer's repentance into action.
Denying self-will and dead works and learning to submit to the commandments of God.
Waggles, though I disagree with some of your views, I didn't come into this thread to debate you today.

I like you, but I'm also tired of arguing about these same issues all the time.
I'm sure some others will be happy to engage in the debate.

Take care.

..
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,460
1,001
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#51
No it is true doctrine.
The baptism of the Holy spirit is identified in scripture with the accompanying sign or evidence > speaking in a new tongue
AKA speaking in tongues > praying in the Holy Spirit.

What is speaking in a new tongue? Is it getting the gospel out into the world as God's tongue, prophecy ?

Praying in the Spirit .Praying what in the Spirit? . What is he saying? Have you found the foundation to the doctrine ye other than apicture of a bath tub?

Is he saying “Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqa Ze’er sham ze’er sham.. . Amen? I would appear he thinks some are makim ng noises like babies..

Isaiah 28: 9-14 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”[b]

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,460
1,001
113
#52
So then why is water baptism part of Christian doctrine from the beginning?
Why did even Jesus himself undergo water baptism?
Why are new believers commanded to be water baptised for the remission of their sins?
Why Acts 2:38 - repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins?
Why Romans 6 - an entire chapter on water baptism?

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal
to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Peter 3:21 (ESV)
I believe that water baptism by full immersion. is putting a believer's repentance into action.
Denying self-will and dead works and learning to submit to the commandments of God.
Getting wet gives me the chills. Is shivering putting a believer's repentance into action? Or is that where falling backward comes in. Or making noises .Brrr chi chatter brrr

We know why Jesus was baptized .He began the new testament or of priesthood no longer after the Levis. . Its a ceremonial law and it appears you have no idea what there purpose is?

What is the purpose of a ceremonial law .What does it confirm as a shadow?
 

Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
531
420
63
#53
It is a very serious matter to pervert the Gospel of God.
I agree. Which is why I am telling you to stop perverting it. Neither Jesus or the apostles said that new converts should not be baptised.

If indeed the New Birth depended upon the water of baptism, then Paul would have made that a part of his Gospel. Instead, here is what he said (1 Cor 1:17,18):
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospe
Is it impossible to think that God knew beforehand that this controversy would erupt: "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name"? V15 And Paul himself had in fact baptised some persons. So I don't see the point you're making with that scripture.

You can quote a hundred scripture. But you cannot find one that expresses your sentiments.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,867
113
#54
I agree. Which is why I am telling you to stop perverting it. Neither Jesus or the apostles said that new converts should not be baptised.

Is it impossible to think that God knew beforehand that this controversy would erupt: "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name"? V15 And Paul himself had in fact baptised some persons. So I don't see the point you're making with that scripture.

You can quote a hundred scripture. But you cannot find one that expresses your sentiments.
"So I don't see the point you're making with that scripture."

The point Nehmiah was making with 1 Corinthians 1:17-18, is that Paul is making the distinction that baptism and the gospel are two separate things. The gospel is not baptism, and the gospel does not contain baptism... they are separate and distinct things per the clear words of Paul.

That is the point Nehemiah was making.

Per the words of Paul, in a very clear passage, baptism is not a part of the gospel.

That doesn't mean baptism is unimportant.
It just means that baptism is not part of the gospel; it is something separate and distinct.
..
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,867
113
#55
And no, I don't want to argue all night with people who disagree.

I'm just explaining WHY Nehemiah posted that verse.


If you want to debate, you can take it back up with Nehemiah.
He doesn't need any help from me.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,047
2,973
113
#56
I certainly wouldn't include the Mormon Church and Jehovah Witnesses as (Christian) denominations, but would rather describe them as heretical cults!
Read what I have posted always. I could never belong to any named denomination..... What do you derive from this? What would you think I believe is a sect? A cult? Not in linewith the faith of Abraham?
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
364
127
43
37
Merced, CA
#57
here is the list the oneness people follow in order to secure their salvation

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied


Jesus does not save a person unless they first are water baptized. is that what scripture teaches?

yet, the Bible clearly teaches that you receive Christ and then are water baptized

if someone receives Christ, number one on the op list, they are saved there. everything else follows

water regeneration is not taught in scripture

this is what oneness is spreading

no one has stated baptism should not occur. that is not a true statement and people would be wise not to fall for this deception

look up the words baptismal regeneration

that is what is believed
How do you recieve Christ? You state a person is saved by recieving Christ. According to you, how does someone recieve Christ?
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
364
127
43
37
Merced, CA
#58
"So I don't see the point you're making with that scripture."

The point Nehmiah was making with 1 Corinthians 1:17-18, is that Paul is making the distinction that baptism and the gospel are two separate things. The gospel is not baptism, and the gospel does not contain baptism... they are separate and distinct things per the clear words of Paul.

That is the point Nehemiah was making.

Per the words of Paul, in a very clear passage, baptism is not a part of the gospel.

That doesn't mean baptism is unimportant.
It just means that baptism is not part of the gospel; it is something separate and distinct.
..
The gospel has to do with hearing the Word. Paul was to spread the Gospel, he wasnt called to baptize aparently. Doesnt mean baptizms were banned. Jesus taught to make disciples and baptize.

Faith comes from hearing the Word of God. We are saved through Faith. Faith is dead without works. Hence Baptizm is an action taken in obedience. Everyone here has been baptized, done in obedience declaring our Faith. But Faith is what earned us salvation, not the action of water baptizm.

After water baptizm our bodies are washed clean of sin. Same as the priests ceremonial. We must recieve the Holy Spirit, which is the real baptizm that seals us and makes us Children of God. Allowing us to be one with Christ. Christ makes His home in us. This is how we recieve Christ. Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Some people recieve the Holy Spirit prior to water baptizm. It is being born again that allows us to be right with God. But for the OP he must think just a prayer is all that is needed for salvation. Well too bad for him, he is not God or judge to know who is saved or who truly believes.

What cannot be denied is the Holy Spirit. The desernment we recieve lets us know who belongs to Him. Because their Spirit speaks to our Spirit. Not all who say Lord Lord belong to Him. Those who know Him are known. And the flock hear His voice, His Spirit living in me flows with other born again believers. We encourage and feed eachother what God puts in our hearts to share with eachother. We are here to help one another.

This thread has no love. Without love how can you correct your brother. If you wish to correct someone take the strife out of the OP. And if you do not see them as brothers and sisters than dont even begin a thread because it is conflict and confrontational to members of the body and you are not inclined by God to make war on the flock.

It is your own carnal mind who speaks against others. That is not the Spirit of God. And anyone who thinks it is funny to laugh at the things of the Lord, why do you consider yourselves Holy?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
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#59
I agree. Which is why I am telling you to stop perverting it. Neither Jesus or the apostles said that new converts should not be baptised.
On what grounds do you say that I am "perverting it"? Did you even read my post or is it beyond your comprehension? I have consistently maintained that new converts must be baptized. But if you are part of the Onennes cult, then you would insist that baptism is necessary for salvation. WHICH IS TOTALLY FALSE.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
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#60
And if you do not see them as brothers and sisters than dont even begin a thread because it is conflict and confrontational to members of the body and you are not inclined by God to make war on the flock.
The ones who make war on the flock are those who introduce damnable heresies and false doctrines. Not those who expose them. Even the (Pentecostal) Assemblies of God as whole REJECTED Oneness Pentecostal beliefs. So if you are a part of this group you should be re-examining their teachings in the light of Scripture.