The Sign Of Jonah

Bladerunner · Feb 5, 2017

OK, let me try again.....

Passover (Nissan 14) of that year (32AD) happen to be on Wednesday.

As I stated before the 'Feast of Unleaven Bread' as seen in (Leviticus 23:5-6), (Nisan 15) is the day after Passover. It would be treated the same as the Sabbath as travel, preparations, etc are concerned. However, it is not the Sabboth which is on Saturday.

In Leviticus 23:10-11 "........on the morrow after the sabbath.........." tells us the 'Feast of FirstFruits' was on the Sunday following the Sabbath or Saturday. The women looked for Jesus on that Sunday morning and He was gone. He had arisen sometime from Sundown on Saturday (Sabbath) and that time.

The times are right, the three days and nights fit without having to shew the scriptures. Everything fits including the April 6, 32AD arrival time for Jesus in Jerusalem and is reproducible without manipulation of scripture to fit one vision of what happened.The Bible (God's WORD) tells us exactly what happened.

A Nisan 14 Friday would not give the three days and nights in the grave as stated in the Bible. One will have to wavier or change the scriptures for this event. It is what is done throughout the Bible by many, Symbolism or it is a misprint, etc. I have given you the straight line to His Death, Burial and Resurrection as given by the Bible without having to cut corners or say that the Bible is wrong. It is of course your choice on what to believe... I myself will not poke my finger in God's eye.

beta · Feb 6, 2017

oldhermit said:

So can you tell us where exactly His body was for 3 days and 3 nights if he was not in the tomb ???
and where was His body laid ? since the women 'observed his burial - which according to you was not in the tomb - where was it ?

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Hardly, the high sabbath is a King James Version only,, Jews never called any of the seven festivals a high sabbath. That came along in the KJV translation...

The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles).[4] Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[5]

The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English.

Yo if it's was a 72 hours event where is your verse that says. at this (hour) Jesus had risen from the grave.. You can't place something that isn't there. Guess all you want, you can't not say Jesus rose at 5am or 6am or what ever.. He died at 3pm the ninth hour.. he didn't rise three days later at the ninth hour which would complete a 72 hours.. We are not given account of the hour He rose. Could have been 68 hours or 70 hours..

Adstar · Feb 6, 2017

oldhermit said:

Yes, any of the sacrificial days could have fallen on any day of the week. It just so happened that in the year of Jesus' death, the 14th fell on a Friday. This was not by accident. This means that both the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and the weekly Sabbath fell on the 15[SUP]th[/SUP], and the first day of the week then was the 16th. You have to remember that Jesus fulfilled all of the OT sacrifices in exacting precision. EVERY O.T. sacrifice served as a pattern for the reality. This is why they are called types. I think we can all agree that Jesus, as the Passover Lamb, was slain on the 14th of the month of Nissan according to the pattern of the Passover. We also know that he was placed in the tomb on the same day and spent the entire day of the 15th (The Sabbath of unleavened Bread) in the tomb. We also know that he was raised on the 16th of the month which was the same day as the offering of the first fruits. The contention that is debated is whether the 14th was on a Wed, Thur, or Fri. So, how do we determine on which day the 14th fell?

Now follow me on this. In Lev 23:15-17 we learn that the people were to "count from the day after the sabbath, (This was the day after the Sabbath day of Unleavened Bread) from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths(i.e. seven weeks, 49 days). You shall count fifty days(rather than 49) to the day after the seventh sabbath(i.e. they were to count fifty days after the seventh Sabbath which adds one more day to make 50 days); then you shall present a new grain offering to the LORD. You shall bring in from your dwelling places two loaves of bread for a wave offering, made of two-tenths of an ephah; they shall be of a fine flour, baked with leaven as first fruits to the LORD."

Now, what happened exactly 50 days following the resurrection? This was of course the Day of Pentecost. Jesus rose on the first day of the week on the day of the offering of first fruits, the 16th of Nissan. Paul confirms that Jesus is the first fruit in 1Cor 15:20 “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.” This was in keeping with the pattern of Lev 23, and Mark 16:9 confirms that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. “Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week,...” Now, Exactly fifty days from that day we have the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus was raised as the first fruit on the first day of the week, on the 16th of the month. He had to rise on the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] in order to fulfill the pattern of the offering of first fruits. Since he rose on Sunday, the 14th cannot be any day but Friday. This follows precisely the pattern of the Passover and its subsequent offering of first fruits. From the burial to the resurrection was three consecutive days, Fri, Sat, and Sun, but it was not 72 hours.

Oh well i give up...

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink..

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

Bladerunner said:

OK, let me try again.....

Passover (Nissan 14) of that year (32AD) happen to be on Wednesday.

As I stated before the 'Feast of Unleaven Bread' as seen in (Leviticus 23:5-6), (Nisan 15) is the day after Passover. It would be treated the same as the Sabbath as travel, preparations, etc are concerned. However, it is not the Sabboth which is on Saturday.

In Leviticus 23:10-11 "........on the morrow after the sabbath.........." tells us the 'Feast of FirstFruits' was on the Sunday following the Sabbath or Saturday. The women looked for Jesus on that Sunday morning and He was gone. He had arisen sometime from Sundown on Saturday (Sabbath) and that time.

The times are right, the three days and nights fit without having to shew the scriptures. Everything fits including the April 6, 32AD arrival time for Jesus in Jerusalem and is reproducible without manipulation of scripture to fit one vision of what happened.The Bible (God's WORD) tells us exactly what happened.

A Nisan 14 Friday would not give the three days and nights in the grave as stated in the Bible. One will have to wavier or change the scriptures for this event. It is what is done throughout the Bible by many, Symbolism or it is a misprint, etc. I have given you the straight line to His Death, Burial and Resurrection as given by the Bible without having to cut corners or say that the Bible is wrong. It is of course your choice on what to believe... I myself will not poke my finger in God's eye.

Let's see King Herod died around 4 BC to 2 BC, let's say it was 1 BC well Jesus was born before King Herod died.. So that 32 AD is no proof of anything and no one can dial in the exact day,, I havent seen anybody scholar or historican say 100% yes it was exactly this day in this year, you grasping at straws mentioned days and years as being exact..

beta · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

Hardly, the high sabbath is a King James Version only,, Jews never called any of the seven festivals a high sabbath. That came along in the KJV translation...

The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles).[4] Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[5]

The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English.

Yo if it's was a 72 hours event where is your verse that says. at this (hour) Jesus had risen from the grave.. You can't place something that isn't there. Guess all you want, you can't not say Jesus rose at 5am or 6am or what ever.. He died at 3pm the ninth hour.. he didn't rise three days later at the ninth hour which would complete a 72 hours.. We are not given account of the hour He rose. Could have been 68 hours or 70 hours..

If Jesus was buried at sunset He also rose at sunset 3 nights and 3 days later ---not at 'any old time people reckon. People have no shame at making Jesus into a liar....even in His death. Maybe they should learn to count.

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

beta said:

That is a sharp as a marble statement,, yea ok the time started when he was buried,, that makes no sense at all.. He died on the cross not at burial... It's ashame people call others liers when they can't comprehend,, that's a classic temptation tool...

beta · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

Why does it not make sense to count from the time He was placed in the tomb ? Jesus' prediction did not count from the time He died but how long He would be in the tomb...that did not start with His death.
When you say He could have risen any old time that contradicts with Jesus own words....and you think YOU are right ?

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

beta said:

any old time contradicts Jesus words,, show me where Jesus says at what hour he will rise.. Granted I do agree he said three days and three nights but in Jesus own words he never tells of a time at what hour.. Why people can't see that is beyond me..

My apologies, I see what mean, yes three days is three days, rather those are from the cross to the resurrection or from the time his body was in the tomb until he walked out the tomb,, anyway it's three days.. But there's no risen verse as to what time or hour.. So anybody who does think it was a literal 72 hours is just simply a theory...

oldhermit · Feb 6, 2017

Bladerunner said:

LOL. Don't sound so exasperated. It is just a discussion.

There is no way we can know what year Jesus died because there is a three year plus or minus factor that historians have never been able to resolve. This being true, there is no evidence one can give to show that the 14th fell on a Wednesday that year. We can however demonstrate from the offering of first fruits that on this year, the 14th fell on a Friday.

Yes, I understand all of this. What I am trying to show you is that both Sabbaths fell on the 15th of Nissan that year. We know this because Jesus could only rise on the 16th, the day of first fruits which was Sunday. These first three days of the Passover, the Feast if Unleavened Bread, and the first fruits were three consecutive days.

No, all of this was on the day immediately following the Sabbath of unleavened bread. He is still talking about things connected with the Passover. Don't let verses nine and ten throw you. This is still regarding the Passover.

Here is how Jesus himself defined those three days and three nights. Matthew 17:22-23, "And while they were gathering together in Galilee, Jesus said to them, 'The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men; and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day.' And they were deeply grieved."
From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. Within the span of three days and three nights Jesus would be delivered, killed, and raised. Three days and three nights modifies delivered into the hands of men, killed, and raised on the third day. "In the heart of the earth" is the same thing as "into the hands of men." This is not the only place we find the word γῆς used to refer to man. From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. The time line is all there in stark detail, particularly in Luke's account. Jesus never, anywhere said he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights. This is a definition WE have assigned to "in the heart of the earth."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]First of all, I believe the three days and three nights to be quite literal. From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. For those in who demand a literal, complete 72 hours, no more and no less, well, here it is. Within the span of three days and three nights Jesus would be delivered, killed, and raised. Three days and three nights modifies all of the above - delivered into the hands of men, killed, and raised on the third day.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] "In the heart of the earth"[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] is the same thing as [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"into the hands of men."[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. The time line is all there in stark detail, particularly in Luke's account. Jesus never, anywhere said he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights. [/FONT]

oldhermit · Feb 6, 2017

beta said:

Here is how Jesus himself defined those three days and three nights. Matthew 17:22-23, "And while they were gathering together in Galilee, Jesus said to them, 'The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men; and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day.' And they were deeply grieved."
From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. Within the span of three days and three nights Jesus would be delivered, killed, and raised. Three days and three nights modifies delivered into the hands of men, killed, and raised on the third day. "In the heart of the earth" is the same thing as "into the hands of men." This is not the only place we find the word γῆς used to refer to man. From the time Jesus was betrayed until the time he rose from the tomb was three days and three nights. The time line is all there in stark detail, particularly in Luke's account. Jesus never, anywhere said he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights. This is a definition WE have assigned to "in the heart of the earth."

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

This is no different of a statement than in scripture.

going to Texas I'm leaving at 1 pm eastern time today and will arrive in three days at 2am., though it wasn't 72 hours it was within three days..

beta · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

Look, Jesus does not have to state the hour or the time....we know to the setting of the sun when He was buried....we don't need a clock or exact time of rising when we are told He would be in the tomb 3night-times and 3 day-times...we just need to count them. Scripture also says there are 12 hours in each day and 12 in each night. Additionally we are told it all happened according to scripture - which negates any human reasoning.
Why not just believe what scripture tells us ?

beta · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

No friend...it is not the same as having the time of your arrival stated. Even so it is not a 'given....things happen on a journey and there can be delays.
Jesus did not give a 'rising time even if He could have...He is leaving it to the diligent, discerning student to count the time given...it's not hard to add 6x12.

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

beta said:

I do believe what it says and it doesn't say it was in 72 hours,, if you say what you believe then why didn't you say he was buried at the setting sun and risen on the setting sun, three days later 72 hours..

ok let's say you think it was Thursday the first setting sun,,, the second setting sun is Friday evening One complete day 24 hours, the third setting sun is Saturday now it's 48 hours, the forth setting sun on Sunday evening makes up a complete 72 hours circuit..

Using such time lines let's see you put the 72 hours in order from the cross or tomb which ever you choice then count the hours each 12 hours you mentioned and show me I'm wrong,, please if I'm seeing the 72 hour time line wrong prove me wrong.. With the math...

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

beta said:

It's not hard let me see your math with 12 hours to 12 hours a complete day,, do it just don't talk it let me see your math..

Rather you start at the ninth hour or at dusk 6pm

Bladerunner · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

Hardly, the high sabbath is a King James Version only,, Jews never called any of the seven festivals a high sabbath. That came along in the KJV translation...

I suppose on of the newer versions of the Bible where there are numerous re-wording of God's WOrd. Sorry,,,I will stand by the King James Version.

Yo if it's was a 72 hours event where is your verse that says. at this (hour) Jesus had risen from the grave.. You can't place something that isn't there. Guess all you want, you can't not say Jesus rose at 5am or 6am or what ever.. He died at 3pm the ninth hour.. he didn't rise three days later at the ninth hour which would complete a 72 hours.. We are not given account of the hour He rose. Could have been 68 hours or 70 hours.

Here is the crux of the problem YO..where is the Hour Jesus arose. There is one thing that I as a literalist will only do that that is read the scriptures as they were written and not put any of my wording into them. The scriptures and timeline as previously written was a 72 hour period after which we do not know or are told at what Hour Jesus Arose. from Sundown on Saturday, the next day (Feast of First fruits) began and it lasted until sundown on Sunday. He arose at sometime between Sundown on Saturday (again the beginning of the next day, Sunday, Feast of First Fruits) and the time (unknown) that the women came to check out the grave and found it empty. I stress the time that the women came there was in the morning but the HOUR was NOT known.

.

It is what it is and I can do no more. I suggest that you use the (Acts 17:11) scripture to determine if what I say is right.

BeyondET · Feb 6, 2017

Bladerunner said:

O please, and your thoughts are what?? Because I know that statement you made of April 6 32AD comes from some scholars secular historians.. Nothing of that you mentioned has biblical verses to that thinking.. Yet say I should look elsewhere ...Really...

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

And we have a cleaver one here Popa..

Bladerunner · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

I really think that the problem is yours... The scripture states that (Matthew 12:40):

Matthew 12:40 (KJV).."For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This is not speaking of his death but afterwards in the grave.

Bladerunner · Feb 6, 2017

BeyondET said:

Yes, we we Strictly talking about 'the Death of Jesus' and the time line. Now if you to go through the prophecies and dates from which it can be proved that Jesus entered Jerusalem, I can do that with the understanding tht you are not going to be happy about it...

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