I'm not changing the subject, I was displaying to the casual reader that though you say "it was a spiritual sword" Jesus asked his disciples to buy, you also believe that Jesus turned water into grape juice. Also lets not pretend the jews ran out of grape juice at a wedding feast. I digress, we won't change the subject
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well...hmm...this seems to be a man's thread for the most part,
so forgive me for interrupting.
i s'pose it's human nature to defend oneself. it's easy to speculate about what i'd do in a given situation.
i think if i were being attacked it would be instinct to try to stop it. (fight back)
if it were only me, idk...but if it were one of my children or my little grandson...grr!
our son was involved in public violence just once. he and one of his sisters were in a pub having a sandwich
when a drunk patron physically, er, intruded on my daughter's person.
my son tried to talk to him, but he wasn't exactly in a reasonable mood.
one punch took care of it. i'm glad he was there, but i feel other men would have risen up to defend that assault.
and i thank God for it!
our daughter is 5'5" and not quite 100 pounds...if we can't defend the defenseless, who are we?
should my son have just let that guy manhandle his sister??
it's one thing to decide to turn the other cheek for oneself, and quite another to allow evil
to just happen to those who are too weak to defend themselves.
so forgive me for interrupting.
i s'pose it's human nature to defend oneself. it's easy to speculate about what i'd do in a given situation.
i think if i were being attacked it would be instinct to try to stop it. (fight back)
if it were only me, idk...but if it were one of my children or my little grandson...grr!
our son was involved in public violence just once. he and one of his sisters were in a pub having a sandwich
when a drunk patron physically, er, intruded on my daughter's person.
my son tried to talk to him, but he wasn't exactly in a reasonable mood.
one punch took care of it. i'm glad he was there, but i feel other men would have risen up to defend that assault.
and i thank God for it!
our daughter is 5'5" and not quite 100 pounds...if we can't defend the defenseless, who are we?
should my son have just let that guy manhandle his sister??
it's one thing to decide to turn the other cheek for oneself, and quite another to allow evil
to just happen to those who are too weak to defend themselves.
You don't think therer is a spirit world that we cannot see where angels and demons are not visible to our sight? Paul says,
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )" (2 Corinthians 10:3-4). Ephesians 6:12 essentially is saying the same thing. We wrestle against flesh and blood (Which is what most here believe we must do), but we wrestle against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places (.i.e. demons). In other words we are fighting a spiritual battle and you need spiritual armor. Whether this armor is visible in the spirit world or whether this armor is a metaphorical expression of how we wage war spiritually is not entirely clear in Scripture. What is important is that you have this armor on if you do fight spiritually.
As for Abraham going to war to save Lot, we have to understand that this was the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The Old has vanished away and the New Testament officially began (With no more Old Testament) when Jesus died upon the cross. For the Temple veil has been torn.
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )" (2 Corinthians 10:3-4). Ephesians 6:12 essentially is saying the same thing. We wrestle against flesh and blood (Which is what most here believe we must do), but we wrestle against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places (.i.e. demons). In other words we are fighting a spiritual battle and you need spiritual armor. Whether this armor is visible in the spirit world or whether this armor is a metaphorical expression of how we wage war spiritually is not entirely clear in Scripture. What is important is that you have this armor on if you do fight spiritually.
As for Abraham going to war to save Lot, we have to understand that this was the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The Old has vanished away and the New Testament officially began (With no more Old Testament) when Jesus died upon the cross. For the Temple veil has been torn.
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Well, you don't believe Paul then. He said the weapons of our warefare are not carnal. Yet you somehow believe that they are.
Also, I went back and read a little of the thread. Not sure what point you think I am ignoring. I strive to always make my points with Scripture.
Was it about what would I do if a loved one was attacked in front of me?
I first would first try to rebuke them in the name of Jesus and call out to God for help. I would also try to stop them with the Word of God, too. If the attacker persisted I would further rebuke them in the name of Jesus and strive to pull the attacker away without harming them. If I were to die then let the glory be to God.
Also, I went back and read a little of the thread. Not sure what point you think I am ignoring. I strive to always make my points with Scripture.
Was it about what would I do if a loved one was attacked in front of me?
I first would first try to rebuke them in the name of Jesus and call out to God for help. I would also try to stop them with the Word of God, too. If the attacker persisted I would further rebuke them in the name of Jesus and strive to pull the attacker away without harming them. If I were to die then let the glory be to God.
Now, do not misunderstand me, while I may be a pacifist now, I will not be one when I follow Christ at His second coming. In other words, if I seen in the New Testament clear examples of Jesus and or the apostles fighting physically and God approved of their actions then I would not be a pacifist. I am only a pacifist now because that is what the New Testament teaches.
Sorry, Abraham's walk of faith was not of the Mosaic Law but should also be our walk of faith as well.
He rescued his nephew and was not rebuked for it.
And if you are of Christ, then you are a seed of Abraham, even heirs according to promise.
(Gal 3:29)
and a father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision. For the promise was not through Law to Abraham, or to his seed, for him to be the heir of the world, but through a righteousness of faith.
(Rom 4:12-13)
So that those of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:9)
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:14)
He rescued his nephew and was not rebuked for it.
And if you are of Christ, then you are a seed of Abraham, even heirs according to promise.
(Gal 3:29)
and a father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision. For the promise was not through Law to Abraham, or to his seed, for him to be the heir of the world, but through a righteousness of faith.
(Rom 4:12-13)
So that those of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:9)
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:14)
E
Did you read the whole forum? If you saw someone with a gun or any other weapon walking around killing people would you just sit back and watch? Or would you do anything in your power to stop then even if it meant to kill them? Imagine if it was your family being attacked. Would you not defend them? That's what we are talking about.
While salvation has always been in God's grace by faith, your Bible is divided into two sections for a reason. Read Hebrews 9. It mentions how there are are only two covenants or two testaments (i.e. the Old Testament and the New Testament). Read the articles at Grace Community International. They helped me to understand this topic. Check them out here:
The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International
Also being joint heirs of Abraham means that we are all one in Christ. It doesn't mean we are under any part of the Old Covenant (Whether it was before the written Law or when the Law of Moses was in effect).
The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International
Also being joint heirs of Abraham means that we are all one in Christ. It doesn't mean we are under any part of the Old Covenant (Whether it was before the written Law or when the Law of Moses was in effect).
For the natural man walks by sight but the spiritual man walks by faith or in those things that are unseen. For without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For even in certain battles in the Old Testament, we had seen it was actually God who was giving His people the victory. A sword? A gun? Ha. Such puny weapons compared to the protection of the Almighty! Nothing happens by random chance in this life. God ks testing you to have faith in Bim and not the arm of your flesh or the carnal wepons of this world.