The State of Israel - Authentic or Counterfeit?

[sevenseas]

Wait a minute, the fig tree is Israel isn't it? If Israel's the fig tree then who's the natural olive tree?

no dude

In Jer. 11:16-17, Israel is called a "GREEN OLIVE TREE," fair, and of goodly fruit, but is warned that for its idolatry its branches shall be broken off. In Rom. 11:17-27 we have the Parable of the

"TWO OLIVE TREES."​

One is called a GOOD Olive Tree, the other a WILD Olive Tree. The GOOD Olive Tree represents Israel, the WILD Olive Tree the Gentiles. The root of the Good Olive Tree is THREEFOLD. The main root is Abraham, the other two are Isaac and Jacob. "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the Children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of ABRAHAM, the God of ISAAC, and the God of JACOB, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." Ex. 3:15. Why should God speak of Himself in this "threefold" manner? Because He wished to reveal Himself in His "TRI-UNITY."

Abraham is a type of God the Father, Isaac is a type of God the Son, and the Holy Spirit is seen in the guidance of Jacob.The "Threefold root" of the Good Olive Tree was HOLY because separated, and as the "Root" was holy so were the "branches." We next read that "some," not all, of the branches were broken off. They were not broken off that the Gentiles might be grafted in, but they were broken off because of "UNBELIEF," and the Gentiles were not grafted in that they might supplant, or take the place of the branches that had been broken off, but that they, as branches of a "WILD Olive Tree," might be PARTAKER of the "root" and "fatness" of the GOOD Olive Tree.

We see from this that the "GOOD Olive Tree" is not rooted up and destroyed and a "WILD Olive Tree" planted in its place, but it still remains alive and gives life to both the "Good" and "Wild" Olive branches. So we see that those who claim that the "Wild Olive Branches" that are grafted in represent the Church, and that the Church has taken the place of Israel, are in error, for the "Wild Olive Branches" do not remain on the "Good Olive Tree," but will be broken off that the original branches may be grafted back again.

Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ are alike Abraham's spiritual children, and are joint partakers of the "root" and "fatness" of the "Good Olive Tree," for Christ was of the seed of Abraham. Those Jews who rejected Christ and thus broke away from the religion of Abraham, are the branches, who, through unbelief, are broken off.In grafting the practice is to graft the "Good" Olive on the "Wild" Olive so as to improve the fruit of the "Wild" Olive. If the "Wild" Olive is grafted on the "Good" Olive the effect is the reverse, and the "Good" Olive will run to wildness.

So Paul knew what he was talking about when he said that the grafting of the "Wild" Olive on the "Good" Olive Tree was "CONTRARY TO NATURE." From this we see that the injection of Gentilism into Judaism is not beneficial to Judaism. That Judaism is of purer stock than Gentilism, and for the purification of Judaism, Gentilism, or the "Wild" Olive branches, must be removed, or cut off, from the "Good" Olive Tree, and be replaced by the grafting back again of the "Natural Branches." Rom. 11:21. By Gentilism we mean that part of the Gentile world known as Christendom, or the professing Church, as described in the Kingdom of Heaven parables of Matt. 13. And it is only the Laodicean part of it that God says He will "SPUE OUT OF HIS MOUTH" (Rev. 3:16), that as "Wild" Olive branches God will remove from the "Good" Olive Tree, for all true believers who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and that make up the true Church the "Body of Christ," and belong to the "Spiritual Israel" of God cannot be displaced.The Parable of the "Two Olive Trees" teaches three things, and what is very important, the order in which these three things take place.

1. 
   [*=left]"Blindness in part is happened to Israel until the 'FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN.'"By the "FULNESS OF THE GENTILES" is not meant the "Times of the Gentiles," but those Gentiles who shall be saved through the Gospel. And when the last Gentile shall be thus saved the FULL NUMBER of saved Gentiles will be complete.
   [*=left]That the "Wild Olive Branches" that are grafted in do not take the place of the branches that were broken off, and because they shall not "continue in God's goodness" they shall be broken off again.
   [*=left]That God has not "Cast Away" His people Israel, and that He will revive the broken off branches and graft them back again.

source

there are several comparisons with different meanings

go study

as the KJ was my first Bible and I can quote verses from there verbatim, I know you have it in your one and only also

 

[Locutus]

What is replacement theology? You can't replace a group that never held the position to start with! Flesh Israel has NEVER been God's chosen people.... no one has replaced God's chosen people - the children of the promise.

It's the bogus claim by the futurist/dispensationalist "theologies" that claim the church has replaced Israel in God's plan.

The church is Israel (not that lump of dirt in the middle east) built on the foundation of the apostles:

Eph 2:19 (NASB) So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,

Eph 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

 

[sevenseas]

No one prior to, let's say 1980, would have ever thought that protestants would attack Martin Luther and call him an anti-semite, while they foam in rage at anyone who criticizes Judaism. We are in for some weird times.

foam in rage

have you thought about writing poetry?

 

[pete9]

why?

I thought you new covenant only people only went by the NT?

Man that's a really dodgy response. I guess if you have no legitimate answer, then...

 

[Snoozy]

I have no need to "blame" them. I just want to live my own life without others expecting me to serve practitioners of another religion, as if they are gods and we are cattle. That's all. Can't they do as they like and we do as we'd like? Or is it that God will be angry if we don't serve them. Or if we criticize their religion or practices. That's where it gets dodgy.

no one said to serve as u are cattle what r u talking about uce? and yes u did blame the jews u went into all da conspiracy theories and now u are backtracking on ur word.

 

[KJV1611]

no dude

In Jer. 11:16-17, Israel is called a "GREEN OLIVE TREE," fair, and of goodly fruit, but is warned that for its idolatry its branches shall be broken off. In Rom. 11:17-27 we have the Parable of the

"TWO OLIVE TREES."​

One is called a GOOD Olive Tree, the other a WILD Olive Tree. The GOOD Olive Tree represents Israel, the WILD Olive Tree the Gentiles. The root of the Good Olive Tree is THREEFOLD. The main root is Abraham, the other two are Isaac and Jacob. "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the Children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of ABRAHAM, the God of ISAAC, and the God of JACOB, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." Ex. 3:15. Why should God speak of Himself in this "threefold" manner? Because He wished to reveal Himself in His "TRI-UNITY."

Abraham is a type of God the Father, Isaac is a type of God the Son, and the Holy Spirit is seen in the guidance of Jacob.The "Threefold root" of the Good Olive Tree was HOLY because separated, and as the "Root" was holy so were the "branches." We next read that "some," not all, of the branches were broken off. They were not broken off that the Gentiles might be grafted in, but they were broken off because of "UNBELIEF," and the Gentiles were not grafted in that they might supplant, or take the place of the branches that had been broken off, but that they, as branches of a "WILD Olive Tree," might be PARTAKER of the "root" and "fatness" of the GOOD Olive Tree.

We see from this that the "GOOD Olive Tree" is not rooted up and destroyed and a "WILD Olive Tree" planted in its place, but it still remains alive and gives life to both the "Good" and "Wild" Olive branches. So we see that those who claim that the "Wild Olive Branches" that are grafted in represent the Church, and that the Church has taken the place of Israel, are in error, for the "Wild Olive Branches" do not remain on the "Good Olive Tree," but will be broken off that the original branches may be grafted back again.

Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ are alike Abraham's spiritual children, and are joint partakers of the "root" and "fatness" of the "Good Olive Tree," for Christ was of the seed of Abraham. Those Jews who rejected Christ and thus broke away from the religion of Abraham, are the branches, who, through unbelief, are broken off.In grafting the practice is to graft the "Good" Olive on the "Wild" Olive so as to improve the fruit of the "Wild" Olive. If the "Wild" Olive is grafted on the "Good" Olive the effect is the reverse, and the "Good" Olive will run to wildness.

So Paul knew what he was talking about when he said that the grafting of the "Wild" Olive on the "Good" Olive Tree was "CONTRARY TO NATURE." From this we see that the injection of Gentilism into Judaism is not beneficial to Judaism. That Judaism is of purer stock than Gentilism, and for the purification of Judaism, Gentilism, or the "Wild" Olive branches, must be removed, or cut off, from the "Good" Olive Tree, and be replaced by the grafting back again of the "Natural Branches." Rom. 11:21. By Gentilism we mean that part of the Gentile world known as Christendom, or the professing Church, as described in the Kingdom of Heaven parables of Matt. 13. And it is only the Laodicean part of it that God says He will "SPUE OUT OF HIS MOUTH" (Rev. 3:16), that as "Wild" Olive branches God will remove from the "Good" Olive Tree, for all true believers who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and that make up the true Church the "Body of Christ," and belong to the "Spiritual Israel" of God cannot be displaced.The Parable of the "Two Olive Trees" teaches three things, and what is very important, the order in which these three things take place.

1. 
   [*=left]"Blindness in part is happened to Israel until the 'FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN.'"By the "FULNESS OF THE GENTILES" is not meant the "Times of the Gentiles," but those Gentiles who shall be saved through the Gospel. And when the last Gentile shall be thus saved the FULL NUMBER of saved Gentiles will be complete.
   [*=left]That the "Wild Olive Branches" that are grafted in do not take the place of the branches that were broken off, and because they shall not "continue in God's goodness" they shall be broken off again.
   [*=left]That God has not "Cast Away" His people Israel, and that He will revive the broken off branches and graft them back again.

source

there are several comparisons with different meanings

go study

as the KJ was my first Bible and I can quote verses from there verbatim, I know you have it in your one and only also

Flesh descendants of Israel are not the olive tree, the olive tree was Jewish spiritual Israel just like the wild olive tree is gentile spritual Israel.

 

[Meggido]

"pete9, If you have read and studied your Bible the way God wants you to, you would know the answers to the above questions."

Some people here love passive aggressive attacks. If you won't be a Judaizer, then you're not following the way of Jesus, they say. Now this one suggests that I haven't read and studied the Bible the way God wants.. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

"I would send you to Genesis 12:1-4, where Abram (Abraham later) was told that He (God) would Bless those who stood by Israel and Curse those who did not? Now what is your answer?"

My answer is to turn off "Bible radio" or whatever media it is that forces adoration and worship of those people down your throat.

It may have..slipped your mind..that those verses did not contain the word "Israel", and that it referred to Abraham. Who was a man. Now, if you want to say that he was referring to his offsprings, you may or may not recall that Abraham was also the father of Ishmael. And so I think you'd better start blessing those Arabs instead of all that hating if you know what's good for you!

Abram was called a Hebrew in the Bible not an Arab...

 

[Meggido]

Telling people that they need to do excerpts from the law of Moses in order to follow Jesus. Suggesting that Jesus and the Judaizer is "over here", and the Apostle Paul is "over there". Implying by direct or indirect means that it is wrong to eat bacon. Believing that one can "learn" useful stuff from the Talmud..etc etc etc.

This is simply legalism and not judiazing....this does not mean for a nano-scond that I am endorsing or agree with any form of Legalism....because I do not and never will....Judiazing takes place when someone mandates you follow the ceremonial, dietary, hygienic Law of Moses and follow all the feasts and sabbaths in addition to believing in Jesus in order to obtain salvation...

You came in here swinging bro...you need to be less polarizing and more studious in your approach to posting...

 

[sevenseas]

Flesh descendants of Israel are not the olive tree, the olive tree was Jewish spiritual Israel just like the wild olive tree is gentile spritual Israel.

you put new meaning to the blind leading the blind

you refuse to acknowledge what the Bible itself states but then we knew you would

you spiritualize everything because you are also of the cult that believes Jesus has already come back and everything is in the rearview mirror

just what god do you actually acknowledge? I believe it is one of your own making

not all prophecy is fulfilled, but according to you, it is, so that is your entire skewed viewpoint

 

[Locutus]

Pete's the King of the Swingers...

He's just swinging along....

 

[KJV1611]

This is simply legalism and not judiazing....this does not mean for a nano-scond that I am endorsing or agree with any form of Legalism....because I do not and never will....Judiazing takes place when someone mandates you follow the ceremonial, dietary, hygienic Law of Moses and follow all the feasts and sabbaths in addition to believing in Jesus in order to obtain salvation...

You came in here swinging bro...you need to be less polarizing and more studious in your approach to posting...

Since when did questioning the authenticity of that bunch of Kaballahist heathens in Israel become polarizing? This is an excellent topic that needs to be talked about.

 

[sevenseas]

Man that's a really dodgy response. I guess if you have no legitimate answer, then...

no need to answer what has been answered

which you know but refuse to acknowledge

I ask along with Kayla, why are you here exactly?

imo, you just want a soapbox and this forum provides one for you

 

[sevenseas]

no one said to serve as u are cattle what r u talking about uce? and yes u did blame the jews u went into all da conspiracy theories and now u are backtracking on ur word.

well that is what all those who try to legitimize personal and ungodly beliefs do

it's like a revolving door here

first of all they come in like gangbusters and post their opinion and then get their panties in a knot when people disagree

when they see that won't work either, they back peddle and whine a little and try to come in by the back door

that won't fly either

 

[KJV1611]

you put new meaning to the blind leading the blind

you refuse to acknowledge what the Bible itself states but then we knew you would

you spiritualize everything because you are also of the cult that believes Jesus has already come back and everything is in the rearview mirror

just what god do you actually acknowledge? I believe it is one of your own making

not all prophecy is fulfilled, but according to you, it is, so that is your entire skewed viewpoint

I learned from reading the KJV that you don't mix metaphors. If a wild olive tree is gentile Christians then the natural olive tree is Jewish Christians. They're both olive trees but God planted the natural one and the wild one came up on it's on. A fig tree is not an olive tree and an olive tree is not a fig tree.

Lesson for you today.... don't mix metaphors!

 

[sevenseas]

Since when did questioning the authenticity of that bunch of Kaballahist heathens in Israel become polarizing? This is an excellent topic that needs to be talked about.

that would be utterly impossible considering your preterist convictions

everything you read is translated through your preterist filter

just more blather from a cult. guess that is two you belong to

 

[Meggido]

LM1 is just stating the Gospel

Romans 11:
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

No this is an incomplete view of Romans 11. LM1 the New Covenant was not ever theirs to begin with and will only be grafted in and this is wrong...

[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

[J7]

are you that Japanese guy that was hiding in the woods years after WWII ended?

No.

Do you ask WW2 Jews if they are "that Holocaust survivor still doing the guided tours" ?

 

[sevenseas]

I learned from reading the KJV that you don't mix metaphors. If a wild olive tree is gentile Christians then the natural olive tree is Jewish Christians. They're both olive trees but God planted the natural one and the wild one came up on it's on. A fig tree is not an olive tree and an olive tree is not a fig tree.

Lesson for you today.... don't mix metaphors!

you could not teach a squirrel to eat nuts

like I said, your teachings are preterist and people should realize that and understand the ACTUAL reason for your dissent and disagreement and calling those who understand scripture, Jew worshippers

lovely! I am sure all kinds of people will be writing you to know where and when they can attend your classes

 

[Meggido]

My point is that the new-fangled Judaizing movement has taken over everyone who tunes in too deeply to "Christian" media. And that it is clearly run by that state which wants our blood, money, and adoration. I guess you fell for it.

seeing as you have no real idea what true Judiazing is...maybe you should start over...

If anyone on Christian TV is a true judiazer or coming close to it, it would be Paula White...

 

[sevenseas]

No.

Do you ask WW2 Jews if they are "that Holocaust survivor still doing the guided tours" ?

LOL!

and you have no understanding of humor either it seems

well, you gave me a laugh anyway