The teaching of works

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,486
1,682
113
#1
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,827
951
113
31
#2
If works saved that would be a slap in the face of Jesus.

Jesus: I died for all sins.
Father: Yes my Son, but “now they work.”
Jesus: Wait, wait. You mean to tell me that my death and resurrection doesn’t give them eternal life and instead they must save themselves through their own effort so that you, Father, owe them a debt instead of giving them the gift of eternal life?
Father: I know! Some of them have yet to realize they are not and cannot be perfect and therefore as scripture says all fall short of my glory and because they cannot be perfect I sent you, the Son of Man, to walk the perfect walk and then pay their penalty of sin. That is, death. And now, your righteousness is imputed (given) to them, and all their sins are forgiven them forevermore.
Jesus: How gracious!
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,535
854
113
#3
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
Salvation, according to Greek interpretation, means "a deliverance"., There is an eternal deliverance by Jesus death, and not of man's works, on the cross and there are many deliverances to God's people as they live here on earth that God grants his children by their good works.

Most of the salvation scriptures are pertaining to deliverances that God's children receive by their good works that they enjoy while they live their lives here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,535
854
113
#4
If works saved that would be a slap in the face of Jesus.

Jesus: I died for all sins.
Father: Yes my Son, but “now they work.”
Jesus: Wait, wait. You mean to tell me that my death and resurrection doesn’t give them eternal life and instead they must save themselves through their own effort so that you, Father, owe them a debt instead of giving them the gift of eternal life?
Father: I know! Some of them have yet to realize they are not and cannot be perfect and therefore as scripture says all fall short of my glory and because they cannot be perfect I sent you, the Son of Man, to walk the perfect walk and then pay their penalty of sin. That is, death. And now, your righteousness is imputed (given) to them, and all their sins are forgiven them forevermore.
Jesus: How gracious!
Those that Jesus died for on the cross cannot sin a sin that will keep them from their eternal inheritance, however, all of those that God gave to his Son to die for do carry the baggage of their sinful nature inherited from Adam and sometimes yield to the temptations of sin, which does not affect their eternal inheritance.

God chastens those that he loves when they commit a sin, which is their judgement from God. At the last day, when Jesus returns to gather his elect they will not face judgement, but will be told to enter in thou good and faithful servant.

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation, means "a deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance that only happens by Jesus's death on the cross, not of man's works, and there are many deliverances that God's children receive as they live their lives here on earth as a reward for their good works.

When God's children commit a sin it separates them from their fellowship with God, not their eternal inheritance, until they repent and regain their fellowship back.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,486
1,682
113
#5
If works saved that would be a slap in the face of Jesus.

Jesus: I died for all sins.
Father: Yes my Son, but “now they work.”
Jesus: Wait, wait. You mean to tell me that my death and resurrection doesn’t give them eternal life and instead they must save themselves through their own effort so that you, Father, owe them a debt instead of giving them the gift of eternal life?
Father: I know! Some of them have yet to realize they are not and cannot be perfect and therefore as scripture says all fall short of my glory and because they cannot be perfect I sent you, the Son of Man, to walk the perfect walk and then pay their penalty of sin. That is, death. And now, your righteousness is imputed (given) to them, and all their sins are forgiven them forevermore.
Jesus: How gracious!
Do you think that because God is gracious and forgiving of all sins, that the Lord does not want us to work for Him?
Do you
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,486
1,682
113
#6
Those that Jesus died for on the cross cannot sin a sin that will keep them from their eternal inheritance, however, all of those that God gave to his Son to die for do carry the baggage of their sinful nature inherited from Adam and sometimes yield to the temptations of sin, which does not affect their eternal inheritance.

God chastens those that he loves when they commit a sin, which is their judgement from God. At the last day, when Jesus returns to gather his elect they will not face judgement, but will be told to enter in thou good and faithful servant.

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation, means "a deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance that only happens by Jesus's death on the cross, not of man's works, and there are many deliverances that God's children receive as they live their lives here on earth as a reward for their good works.

When God's children commit a sin it separates them from their fellowship with God, not their eternal inheritance, until they repent and regain their fellowship back.
You speak of repentance, as the Lord also speaks of repentance. Doesn't this mean that we turn from sin, and isn't turning from sin labeled by humans as work? What do you think the Lord means by repent? Do you think repentance is related to work?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,688
13,957
113
#7
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?
Both... although your first proposition is poorly worded.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,620
282
83
#8
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
If we receive Christ as Saviour, we might do good works but there is no guarantee.

A new believer is a babe in Christ. They do have the Holy Spirit propelling them but that doesn't mean they will be faithful. It takes time to grow, for Jesus to be number 1.

There is going to be fruit from being saved. That is the natural result of the Holy Spirit indwelling someone, but that isn't necessarily a life of good works.

Gotta get eternal salvation and sanctification clear.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
642
426
63
#9
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
There are two salvations, the instant, born again experience and the ongoing, salvation of the soul. As the individual cooperates with God, cutting out things that are not edifying and developing a good relationship with God, the soul becomes more in line with God's nature and purpose.

Any work that is not the result of God's motivating and empowering is dead. Lord Jesus said that apart from Him, we can do nothing. We think that we can do a great deal - witness, start a charity, have church programs to cover everything, feed the poor etc. While there is nothing wrong with those things as such, if it is not of God, it is nothing. Some will find their lifelong project consumed and turned to ashes. Others will discover that what they were doing, which seemed insignificant, was exactly what God wanted. Their works will stand for eternity and be greatly rewarded. The finest Christian I ever knew went to be with God with apparently little to show for his 74 years. Yet I know how much he was used to help me and many others. He had a relationship with God that few enjoy. Yet he was unappreciated by most Christians. "Do not despise the day of small things".
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,749
4,874
113
#10
Any who accept that talent of gold and bury it in the dirt is wicked.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,486
1,682
113
#11
If we receive Christ as Saviour, we might do good works but there is no guarantee.

A new believer is a babe in Christ. They do have the Holy Spirit propelling them but that doesn't mean they will be faithful. It takes time to grow, for Jesus to be number 1.

There is going to be fruit from being saved. That is the natural result of the Holy Spirit indwelling someone, but that isn't necessarily a life of good works.

Gotta get eternal salvation and sanctification clear.
It is my understanding that there is no relationship between sanctification and salvation, although many posers try to relate them saying we must not work for salvation and because of that it is wrong to speak of works.

Sanctification is becoming more like Christ. It is about works, and we are told there is no relationship between works and salvation, except when we are saved we accept Christ in faith. Christ within is the opposite of sin within.

Thess. 4: 3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should learn to control your own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5 not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
161
44
28
ogom.co
#12
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.

no matter what others decide to believe or tell others is the 'truth'... where any darkness still dwells in us, then we do not yet know as God knows, God is light and there is no darkness in Him".

so down here in the patial lights and darknesses that we are -- these are the things that are -- holding us back from knowing/learning more/becoming more at-one with God, light, Truth, life ....

at-one with Truth. "I am the way, and the Truth and the life". the way that brings more truth into life.

"he who does not pick up his cross and follow me -- is not worthy of Me".

is not worthy of Truth..... is not worthy of life. is not an imitator of Jesus ( d i s c i p l e ) . is not found to be in Truth (to whatever degree we are not found) -- is not found to be in life.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,788
1,109
113
#13
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
Biblical salvation is deliverance -- deliverance from sin and death. It is not only a one time event when a person is born again that we are "saved." Salvation is what we rejoice in daily because God delivers us from the power of sin's control over our lives.

Initial justification and ongoing sanctification are all part of the deliverance (salvation) that God brings to believers, which will eventually culminate in eternal heaven (glorification) for the believer.

Rightly understood, works are not self-effort to attain justification. Works are the marvelous working of God in the individual to bring glory to His own name. Thus, works are part of the entire process of God's deliverance of mankind from the power of sin.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,535
854
113
#14
You speak of repentance, as the Lord also speaks of repentance. Doesn't this mean that we turn from sin, and isn't turning from sin labeled by humans as work? What do you think the Lord means by repent? Do you think repentance is related to work?
Yes, repentance is a work of God's children after they have been born again of the Holy Spirit. The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern - 1 Cor 2:14. God's children are born again by God's sovereign grace without the works of mankind.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,234
196
63
#15
To be hired as a good fruit examiner, we need training in the recognition of good fruit, i.e., love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, and also to be mindful in avoiding instead the gathering of thorns, i.e., sexual immorality, impurity, debauchery, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, discord, jealousy, rage, rivalries, divisions, factions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and the like...(from the context of Galatians 5, "Freedom in Christ & Living by the Spirit," vv. 16-22).

This is the work of God, as a genuine belief in His love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control generates a true repentance, not that anyone's repentance generates any true belief. Meanwhile, the presence of thorns indicate a departure from the faith in the reality of those attributes of God's character.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,789
529
113
#16
Some posters are against teaching works, for they say that is teaching that we are saved through works. Others teach that works are the result of God within us, and if we accept God, we work for the Lord. Who is right?

Scripture tells us that we are never saved through works, only by the grace of the Lord. Scripture also gives numerous verses telling us to obey the Lord, and to obey is to work for the Lord.
it’s a false competition both ideas work together to bring salvation

without grace we would be condemned already in the past and also each time we sin would bring its own death sentance . Grace allows us to come into the right understanding and aren’t condemned Ike we are repenting and getting right it’s forebewrance so we can now repent and not die

if you think carefully everyone who claims grace alone no works involved is reading a couple scriptures from one of Paul’s letters . And everyone who’s ignoring grace and making it only works is reading the same letters by the same apostle

it’s both together not one or the other

This is 100 percent true

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but then this also is true

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then the warnings also are true

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we make chapter 2 an enemy to chapter 5 in the same letter to the same folks it becomes incredibly volitile for arguing d benefits no one

we’re saved just like Noah same process by grace and through faith

so like Noah who received Gods grace genesis 6:8, then God spoke and Noah could believe and have faith and be saved building thre ark by faith in what God said to him , giving him grace first and then instruction and warning

first by of because of grace

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

(then through faith )

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch….

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8, 13-14, 17-18, 22‬ ‭

Noah receiving Gods grace didn’t then make Gods word untrue . What if Noah had claimed grace and refused the building of the ark as an evil work ? He would have died lacking faith him believing Gods warning d instruction saved him

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the righteousness of faith we need. Not just grace but through faith we Accept grace and then accept this part

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To receive grace lows us to hear and respond to the call of repentance d faith in Christ we can stand safely in grace and build an ark like he said because the floods coming