The Temple Of God

[Nehemiah6]

Hmmm, sorry Ahwatukee, but Jesus made no bones about it being in that generation

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

How do you de-literalize these very clear, very unambiguous words?

Since the second coming of Christ is still in the future, then all those things cannot have been fulfilled, therefore we must determine what Christ meant by "this generation" (Greek genea). Not only does it mean a generation of people, but it can also mean a race, or a family, or a nation of people, and in this context it would have been preferable to have "this nation [Israel] shall not pass till all things be fulfilled". In other words Israel would exist and be on earth at the second coming of Christ.

Strong's Concordance

genea: race, family, generation​

Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Short Definition: a generation
Definition: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1074: γενεά
b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; (Acts 2:40).

 

[Muzungu256]

Since the second coming of Christ is still in the future, then all those things cannot have been fulfilled, therefore we must determine what Christ meant by "this generation" (Greek genea). Not only does it mean a generation of people, but it can also mean a race, or a family, or a nation of people, and in this context it would have been preferable to have "this nation [Israel] shall not pass till all things be fulfilled". In other words Israel would exist and be on earth at the second coming of Christ.

Strong's Concordance

genea: race, family, generation​

Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Short Definition: a generation
Definition: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1074: γενεά
b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; (Acts 2:40).

why would Jesus tell them this nation will not pass when one of the signs was pray that it be not on the sabbath day n there will be synagogues???

 

[Ahwatukee]

why would Jesus tell them this nation will not pass when one of the signs was pray that it be not on the sabbath day n there will be synagogues???

The meaning is that, the generation where those signs begin to take place will not pass away until everything has been fulfilled.

 

[garee]

Two different kinds of generations. One seen by walking by sight after the normal course of this corrupted creation as below the other by faith the unseen promise .

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations (fleshly seeds, plural) of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The book of life all who God had planed to create.


The generation of Adam typifies the generations (beginnings or Genesis of natural man) after the seeds(plural) of men . The evil generation or generation of vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The generation singular of Christ... the new born again creatures that are given a new spirit that will never die as His chaste virgin wife.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation (spiritual seed. one)of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The lambs book of life in respect to seed, Christ, singular ...all who God had intended to give a new born again spirit that will be raised on the last day..

They are not subject to this generation called the evil generation or a generation of vipers . God created both beginning when he was creating the beginning.

The new (unseen eternal) and the one we walk in, the temporal .You could say two Genesis‘s as beginnings

Gen 2:4 These are the generations (plural) of the heavens and of the earth when they (plural) were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The scripture refers to two generations of genesis as beginnings, signified by two kinds of women one to to represent the church .

She in respect to our husband Christ the faithful Creator of a newly created bride that will live with forever, the chaste virgin Bride, the whole church, signified by the word 1444,000 used in that parable as unknown number.

God does not literally number the church.. One seen (under the sun) and the other when there will be no Sun and Moon, as temporal time keepers.

The generation of Adam the strange woman .And the generation of Christ the chaste virgin bride made up of those who do have the Spirit of Christ which is not subject to the generation of natural unconverted man . Two cities, two potential brides, one church made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God, not seen.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
.

 

[J7]

Since the second coming of Christ is still in the future, then all those things cannot have been fulfilled, therefore we must determine what Christ meant by "this generation" (Greek genea). Not only does it mean a generation of people, but it can also mean a race, or a family, or a nation of people, and in this context it would have been preferable to have "this nation [Israel] shall not pass till all things be fulfilled". In other words Israel would exist and be on earth at the second coming of .

This is somewhat jumping the gun. The question is about the temple, and likewise the answer. If we stick to this then we will understand the TEMPLE prophecy correctly.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Two different kinds of generations. One seen by walking by sight after the normal course of this corrupted creation as below the other by faith the unseen promise .

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations (fleshly seeds, plural) of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The book of life all who God had planed to create.


The generation of Adam typifies the generations (beginnings or Genesis of natural man) after the seeds(plural) of men . The evil generation or generation of vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The generation singular of Christ... the new born again creatures that are given a new spirit that will never die as His chaste virgin wife.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation (spiritual seed. one)of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The lambs book of life in respect to seed, Christ, singular ...all who God had intended to give a new born again spirit that will be raised on the last day..

They are not subject to this generation called the evil generation or a generation of vipers . God created both beginning when he was creating the beginning.

The new (unseen eternal) and the one we walk in, the temporal .You could say two Genesis‘s as beginnings

Gen 2:4 These are the generations (plural) of the heavens and of the earth when they (plural) were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The scripture refers to two generations of genesis as beginnings, signified by two kinds of women one to to represent the church .

She in respect to our husband Christ the faithful Creator of a newly created bride that will live with forever, the chaste virgin Bride, the whole church, signified by the word 1444,000 used in that parable as unknown number.

God does not literally number the church.. One seen (under the sun) and the other when there will be no Sun and Moon, as temporal time keepers.

The generation of Adam the strange woman .And the generation of Christ the chaste virgin bride made up of those who do have the Spirit of Christ which is not subject to the generation of natural unconverted man . Two cities, two potential brides, one church made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God, not seen.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
.

WHat exactly is the corrupted creation you speak of?

 

[J7]

The meaning is that, the generation where those signs begin to take place will not pass away until everything has been fulfilled.

This makes no sense at many levels. Firstly it flies in the face of everything said, second it flies in the face of its own literal meaning, and thirdly Jesus returns unexpectedly, but the time to leave Jerusalem and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem and Judea are mapped out to the day by Daniel and by Jesus.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Two different kinds of generations. One seen by walking by sight after the normal course of this corrupted creation as below the other by faith the unseen promise

The Lord's reference is to one type of generation and that is in its literal meaning. The comparison is as follows:

When you see the trees putting forth their blossoms = Summer is near

All of the signs that Jesus mentions = End of the age is near

The preterist try to force the verse to mean the generation that Jesus was speaking from, which is not only in error grammatically, but by their interpretation instead of those signs being the proof of the end of the age, they turn the focus on Jesus' generation forcing the signs into it without any fulfillment. If I was to paraphrase it would go like this:

"Truly I tell you, this generation--the one where all of those signs appear-- will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

the chaste virgin Bride, the whole church, signified by the word 1444,000 used in that parable as unknown number.

First of all, in Rev.7 two individual groups are mentioned, 144,000 which are identified as being from the literal twelve tribes of Israel, not the church. And second, both groups are described with a specific amount. The first group is 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel. And the second group are a great number of white robe saints which no man can count from every tribe, people, nation and language, which makes them Gentiles.

Therefore, God is able to make a distinction between the amount of the two groups. If God meant that the 144,000 was an "unknown number" he would have said the same thing that he did for those dressed in white robes which no man can count.

In your claim, you're trying to get us to believe that the number of 144,000 means the same as "a number that no man can count," when the scripture demonstrates a distinction between the two.

Conclusion: 144,000 means 144,000 and those belonging to Israel. And "a great number which no man can count" means "a great number which no man can count" who are all Gentiles.

To change the meaning of 144,000 to represent an unknown amount, would be to ignore the scripture and distort it from its literal meaning. I would also remind you again that the church is no longer mentioned after the end of Rev.3. You will not find the word church anywhere within the narrative of God's wrath.

What you are claiming is pure conjecture!

 

[Bogadile]

She in respect to our husband Christ the faithful Creator of a newly created bride that will live with forever, the chaste virgin Bride, the whole church, signified by the word 1444,000 used in that parable as unknown number.

God does not literally number the church..
.

The lutherans teach this as well. I am tired of hearing it, let me show you in scholarly fashion what the 144 000 means:
It means that the 144 000 are people from the tribes of Israel that are specifically listed, 12 000 from each tribe listed which adds up to 144 000. Mystery unlocked.

I am grumpy today so I will also throw a temper tantrum about this (nothing personal garee GBU): Why do people insist on spiritualizing entire cities with exact measurements into the Church? This is like me giving you a blueprint, making you believe that I will build you a house, similar to the one in the blueprint, then I call you and say hey I will give you that gift that I promised, you show up and I give you an invitation to the local ice hockey team practice, see the blueprint was symbolic of you being built as a hockey team, built together like a house. Would you feel ripped off?

I have heard many attempts to spiritualize Ezekiel chapters 40-48 as well, but it just does not fly, 8 chapters thrown away with specific instructions. There must be a better explanation, either it will be built and done exactly as it says, which is unlikely due to the book of Hebrews kind of blowing that out of the water in NT; or it was conditional, or we misunderstand the book of hebrews.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The lutherans teach this as well. I am tired of hearing it, let me show you in scholarly fashion what the 144 000 means:
It means that the 144 000 are people from the tribes of Israel that are specifically listed, 12 000 from each tribe listed which adds up to 144 000. Mystery unlocked.

I am grumpy today so I will also throw a temper tantrum about this (nothing personal garee GBU): Why do people insist on spiritualizing entire cities with exact measurements into the Church? This is like me giving you a blueprint, making you believe that I will build you a house, similar to the one in the blueprint, then I call you and say hey I will give you that gift that I promised, you show up and I give you an invitation to the local ice hockey team practice, see the blueprint was symbolic of you being built as a hockey team, built together like a house. Would you feel ripped off?

I have heard many attempts to spiritualize Ezekiel chapters 40-48 as well, but it just does not fly, 8 chapters thrown away with specific instructions. There must be a better explanation, either it will be built and done exactly as it says, which is unlikely due to the book of Hebrews kind of blowing that out of the water in NT; or it was conditional, or we misunderstand the book of hebrews.

Hi Bogadile! What does Hebrews say that would cause the literal temple and surrounding land allotments and details regarding the Cherubim and palms trees as decorations, as well as all of the portico's and the rooms where the sacrifices are to be kept, etc., to make it not literal.

Also, Ezk 40 - 48 is written a "matter of fact" format, not maybe or conditional. There's just too much detail.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is somewhat jumping the gun. The question is about the temple, and likewise the answer. If we stick to this then we will understand the TEMPLE prophecy correctly.

Not sure why this would be jumping the gun. The temple prophecy (and I take it that we are speaking about the third temple to be built in Jerusalem) fits right in. Until 1948 most Christians imagined that there would never again be an Israel on earth. Today there are serious preparations being made by Jews to build a temple in Jerusalem. We understand that they are doing this in unbelief, but they believe they will be building "the temple of God".

So when Paul said that the Man of Sin would sit in the temple of God claiming that he is God, that prophesy will indeed be fulfilled in the future. This is a real "bricks and mortar" temple, but it has nothing to do with the Church. So this nation -- Israel -- will be on earth at the second coming of Christ. All Jews worldwide will be gathered to Israel and will need to mourn, repent and be converted, and receive Christ as their Lord and Savior. Paul has given confirmation of this in Romans 11.

 

[Bogadile]

Hi Bogadile! What does Hebrews say that would cause the literal temple and surrounding land allotments and details regarding the Cherubim and palms trees as decorations, as well as all of the portico's and the rooms where the sacrifices are to be kept, etc., to make it not literal.

Also, Ezk 40 - 48 is written a "matter of fact" format, not maybe or conditional. There's just too much detail.

These verses mainly:

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 9:1-10 (too long to paste here, but he sums it up in v10 saying these ordinances and washings were only until the time of reformation, after he lists all the OT earthly tabernacle things)

Hebrews 10:8-10 "Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Hebrews 10:14-18 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."


It just seems completely pointless to go back to the old covenant animal sacrifices in the millennium, it just does not fit the new testament scope of things, only good reason I have heard as to why there are sin offerings in the ezekiel temple is because Jesus' sacrifice cannot be believed upon anymore, due to Him being visibly on the earth, and as we know faith is:

Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

 

[Bogadile]

Ahwatukee if you have any decent explanations for this, I would be happy to hear.

Another thing I forgot to point out and cannot edit in, is that the new testament is completely silent on the topic of future animal sacrifices, and the book of hebrews clearly points to the direction that they are OVER.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It just seems completely pointless to go back to the old covenant animal sacrifices in the millennium...

Why don't we just leave it to God to decide what is pointless and what is not? God has his reasons (which will be revealed in due time) for a Millennial Temple to exist on earth for a redeemed and restored Israel. And that is what the prophecy of Ezekiel reveals.

Obviously Christ's one great sacrifice for sins forever can never be nullified or minimized since His shed blood had eternal value. There is no question that the book of Ezekiel is puzzling in light of the New Testament, but by the same token God did not ask us to figure everything out either. Faith also means believing that God will clarify everything in due time. In the meantime Christians must rest in Christ and preach the Gospel to the Jews.

 

[Nehemiah6]

why would Jesus tell them this nation will not pass when one of the signs was pray that it be not on the sabbath day n there will be synagogues???

Because in that same Olivet Discourse, Jesus told His apostles that the Temple and Jerusalem would be destroyed. So what you quoted actually has a double application -- once in 70 AD and once again in the future.

 

[miknik5]

Two different kinds of generations. One seen by walking by sight after the normal course of this corrupted creation as below the other by faith the unseen promise .

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations (fleshly seeds, plural) of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The book of life all who God had planed to create.


The generation of Adam typifies the generations (beginnings or Genesis of natural man) after the seeds(plural) of men . The evil generation or generation of vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The generation singular of Christ... the new born again creatures that are given a new spirit that will never die as His chaste virgin wife.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation (spiritual seed. one)of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The lambs book of life in respect to seed, Christ, singular ...all who God had intended to give a new born again spirit that will be raised on the last day..

They are not subject to this generation called the evil generation or a generation of vipers . God created both beginning when he was creating the beginning.

The new (unseen eternal) and the one we walk in, the temporal .You could say two Genesis‘s as beginnings

Gen 2:4 These are the generations (plural) of the heavens and of the earth when they (plural) were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The scripture refers to two generations of genesis as beginnings, signified by two kinds of women one to to represent the church .

She in respect to our husband Christ the faithful Creator of a newly created bride that will live with forever, the chaste virgin Bride, the whole church, signified by the word 1444,000 used in that parable as unknown number.

God does not literally number the church.. One seen (under the sun) and the other when there will be no Sun and Moon, as temporal time keepers.

The generation of Adam the strange woman .And the generation of Christ the chaste virgin bride made up of those who do have the Spirit of Christ which is not subject to the generation of natural unconverted man . Two cities, two potential brides, one church made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God, not seen.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
.

Except Adam could not even produce one generation apart from Eve (the mother of all living)

 

[J7]

The temple is the second temple that was destroyed in AD 70 and then its reconstructed third iteration.

Not sure why this would be jumping the gun. The temple prophecy (and I take it that we are speaking about the third temple to be built in Jerusalem) fits right in. Until 1948 most Christians imagined that there would never again be an Israel on earth. Today there are serious preparations being made by Jews to build a temple in Jerusalem. We understand that they are doing this in unbelief, but they believe they will be building "the temple of God".

So when Paul said that the Man of Sin would sit in the temple of God claiming that he is God, that prophesy will indeed be fulfilled in the future. This is a real "bricks and mortar" temple, but it has nothing to do with the Church. So this nation -- Israel -- will be on earth at the second coming of Christ. All Jews worldwide will be gathered to Israel and will need to mourn, repent and be converted, and receive Christ as their Lord and Savior. Paul has given confirmation of this in Romans 11.

 

[Bogadile]

The temple is the second temple that was destroyed in AD 70 and then its reconstructed third iteration.

What do you mean by reconstruted third iteration? You mean Jesus predicts a reconstruction? Where?

 

[J7]

The disciples asked Jesus how long the temple would be a ruin.

Jesus said until he returns.

So either the Jews build a Temple and then he returns, or he returns and builds a temple.

 

[Ahwatukee]

These verses mainly:

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 9:1-10 (too long to paste here, but he sums it up in v10 saying these ordinances and washings were only until the time of reformation, after he lists all the OT earthly tabernacle things)

Hebrews 10:8-10 "Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Hebrews 10:14-18 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."


It just seems completely pointless to go back to the old covenant animal sacrifices in the millennium, it just does not fit the new testament scope of things, only good reason I have heard as to why there are sin offerings in the ezekiel temple is because Jesus' sacrifice cannot be believed upon anymore, due to Him being visibly on the earth, and as we know faith is:

Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Hey Bogadile,

I would have to agree with what Nehemiah6 said. The fact remains that we have 8 chapters describing in detail a temple whose dimensions do not match any previous temple, being much larger. And there is much detail regarding the land allotment for each tribe, which is also different from the land allotment that the tribes had after they went into Canaan. We are also informed that, only the lineage of Zaddok will be able to offer sacrifices because of the idolatry of the other Levite clans.

My point is that, whatever conclusion one draws, there is just too much detail for it to be conditional or symbolic. As I said, it is written in a "matter of fact" format. As to why, is anyone's guess.