The Texas Chainsaw Bible Massacre

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#161
Mar 5, 2018
672
321
63
#161
Dave-L said:
Back in the day, those claiming to know bible prophecy befuddled me. Little did I know how their forecasts came to be. After many failed prophecies about the Lord’s return, first in 1988, one generation after Israel occupied Palestine. And more predictions, all failing their predicted time, I began to wonder. And on top of this, many failed predictions of the Antichrist being everyone from Henry Kissinger to Mikhail Gorbachev, I began to question my sanity for listening to them.

It turns out, much of their platform came from the hallucinations of young Margaret MacDonald, a Scottish lass who in the 1800s predicted the PreTrib Rapture while burning up with a fever. And then picked up on by J. Darby and Later C.I. Scofield wrote of it alongside scripture in his Scofield Reference Bible in the early 1900s.

This became part of Dispensationalism. A new prophetic framework through which people could relate the bible to current events. Prophecy buffs worldwide spent many hours gleaning the headlines in search of the Antichrist who already had them twirling on his string while they searched for him.

In fact, this sort of futurism is the result of a plan designed by the Jesuits to offset the Reformers who identified the papacy as the Antichrist. The Jesuits inserted a gap of unlimited time between Daniel’s 69th and 70th weeks (Daniel 9:24ff). Saying the 70th week is on hold until Antichrist arrives.

But in doing this, they turned Jesus who already fulfilled the 70th week, into a future Antichrist who would fulfill the 70th week in the distant future. Now more than 2000 years later. The Jesuits thought by doing so, people would think the Antichrist is yet future, so he cannot be the Pope.

It worked having affected a broad swath of Christendom. Placing them into a futuristic mode of reading the bible while missing the present and past fulfillments in prophecy. But the gap, no matter how far into the future, needed a few things.

The original backdrop of the first century had the Roman Empire. The time in which the Kingdom of Christ came. But now disregarded and changed into a Jewish millennium of the future.

This meant, they needed a restored Roman Empire. A rebuilt temple for Antichrist to desecrate. Another great tribulation, and all that belonged to the original 70th week’s prophecy, already fulfilled.

But this forms much of their prophecy today. Already fulfilled prophecy is now said to have “double fulfillment”. So they predict a restored Roman Empire. A new Temple with animal sacrifices for Antichrist to end and so on. Not realizing they missed it the same way the Jews did. The kingdom is spiritual and not the physical kingdom they remain looking for.

And so here we are. The bible scavenger hunt began in the 1800s. Looking for scripture to support this “new way” of reading the bible. A system not based on the bible, but based instead on an imaginary Gap the bible never mentions. This meant sawing one text after another from its original setting. And trying to recreate it in the future with modern technology. An example is Ezekiel 38 -39 where spears become submarines. Horses become jet planes. And the attempt to steal Israel’s cattle becomes oil or any reason battles happen today.

And ancient Gog and Magog become Russia. Without one mention of any of this in scripture. Yet many believe the current wave of false prophecy. Not knowing it comes from an imaginary gap inserted in the bible by Jesuits to deceive Protestants at war with the Reformers of the 1600s.
Click to expand...
The pretrib rapture is imminent; it can happen at any moment.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#162
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#162
JohnRH said:
The pretrib rapture is imminent; it can happen at any moment.
Click to expand...
Actually, the end of the world can happen anytime now. The rapture happens after the resurrection on the last day according to Paul and Jesus.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#163
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
#163
Dave-L said:
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” 1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900)
Click to expand...
More evidence. Paul refers to Christian people as 'Jews or Gentiles.' He doesn't just call them all 'Israel.'
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#164
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#164
presidente said:
More evidence. Paul refers to Christian people as 'Jews or Gentiles.' He doesn't just call them all 'Israel.'
Click to expand...
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900)

“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” Ephesians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#165
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#165
Dave-L said:
The gospel binds him from deceiving the nations (gentiles elected to salvation) to fulfill the promise made to Abraham. If we think the binding consists of more than that, we add to Revelation.
Click to expand...
When does this occur?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#168
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#168
Dave-L said:
“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (KJV 1900)
Click to expand...
When did the thousand year of Satan’s binding occur? Now? Satan is the god of this world. He is the ruler of the darkness of this world. He is certainly not bound right now.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#169
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#169
John146 said:
When did the thousand year of Satan’s binding occur? Now? Satan is the god of this world. He is the ruler of the darkness of this world. He is certainly not bound right now.
Click to expand...
God bound him with the gospel from deceiving the nations...only. God still used him and presently uses him in all the suffering you see. Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the Devil.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#170
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#170
Dave-L said:
God bound him with the gospel from deceiving the nations...only. God still used him and presently uses him in all the suffering you see. Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the Devil.
Click to expand...
The nations in the millennium. Then he will be released to deceive them one last time.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#171
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#171
John146 said:
The nations in the millennium. Then he will be released to deceive them one last time.
Click to expand...
Jesus taught against the Millennium in the gospels if you notice. It's a false prophecy of the Pharisees that will never come about.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#172
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#172
Dave-L said:
Jesus taught against the Millennium in the gospels if you notice. It's a false prophecy of the Pharisees that will never come about.
Click to expand...
If you could just see the difference between the KOG and the KOH.😉
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#173
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
#173
Dave-L said:
God bound him with the gospel from deceiving the nations...only. God still used him and presently uses him in all the suffering you see. Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the Devil.
Click to expand...
There are multiplied millions of Hindus bowing down to idols and worshipping devils, not just Hindus, but other idolators engaged in literal idolatry all over the world. The number of Mu ham mad ans who deny that Jesus is the son of God is closer to 2 billion than 1 billion. There are those who call themselves Christian who have cultic beliefs or accept the libertine morality of this current evil age. There are millions of people in the US who think it is okay to murder a child in the womb. There are ministers performing so-called 'gay' so-called 'weddings.' Are the nations deceived?
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#174
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
#174
John146 said:
If you could just see the difference between the KOG and the KOH.😉
Click to expand...
Go through and look up kingdom of God passages in Mark and kingdom of heaven passages in Matthew. Matthew uses 'kingdom of heaven' and Mark uses 'kingdom of God' in the same teachings. Some Jews observed a custom of avoiding referring to God by name, then extended that further to using other terms besides 'God'.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#175
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#175
presidente said:
Go through and look up kingdom of God passages in Mark and kingdom of heaven passages in Matthew. Matthew uses 'kingdom of heaven' and Mark uses 'kingdom of God' in the same teachings. Some Jews observed a custom of avoiding referring to God by name, then extended that further to using other terms besides 'God'.
Click to expand...
I have many times. Both kingdoms were at hand during Christ’s earthly ministry.

Let me ask you, when Jesus preached these same teachings, did He actually say kingdom of God or did He say kingdom of heaven? Why the two different phrases? Did the Spirit lead the writers to write different phrases for the same meaning, or could each have a different meaning?
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#176
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
#176
John146 said:
I have many times. Both kingdoms were at hand during Christ’s earthly ministry.

Let me ask you, when Jesus preached these same teachings, did He actually say kingdom of God or did He say kingdom of heaven? Why the two different phrases? Did the Spirit lead the writers to write different phrases for the same meaning, or could each have a different meaning?
Click to expand...
Even now with our translations from Greek, things can be translated more formally or more dynamically. Jesus probably taught in Aramaic or maybe even in Hebrew, and what we have is in Greek, then translated into our language. I don't think they thought in terms of things having to be exact quotes.

But if Jesus repeated His teachings and said 'kingdom of God' one time and 'kingdom of heaven' the next, then what does that imply?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#177
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#177
presidente said:
But if Jesus repeated His teachings and said 'kingdom of God' one time and 'kingdom of heaven' the next, then what does that imply?
Click to expand...
It implies they are different kingdoms, one spiritual and the other physical. God is a spirit. Heaven is a physical place.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#178
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#178
presidente said:
There are multiplied millions of Hindus bowing down to idols and worshipping devils, not just Hindus, but other idolators engaged in literal idolatry all over the world. The number of Mu ham mad ans who deny that Jesus is the son of God is closer to 2 billion than 1 billion. There are those who call themselves Christian who have cultic beliefs or accept the libertine morality of this current evil age. There are millions of people in the US who think it is okay to murder a child in the womb. There are ministers performing so-called 'gay' so-called 'weddings.' Are the nations deceived?
Click to expand...
What's your point?
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#179
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
#179
John146 said:
It implies they are different kingdoms, one spiritual and the other physical. God is a spirit. Heaven is a physical place.
Click to expand...
Where does the Bible say that heaven is a physical place? Why can't a Spirit live in a physical place? Where does the Bible teach that?


Here are just some of the quotes comparing Matthew and Mark.




Matthew 3
3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.




Matthew 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


Matthew 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Mark 4:26
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;


Matthew 19:14
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:14
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#180
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#180
presidente said:
Where does the Bible say that heaven is a physical place? Why can't a Spirit live in a physical place? Where does the Bible teach that?
Click to expand...
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. They can and will in the millennium. Both kingdoms will be realized at that time. The spiritual children of God dwelling with the physical people of God and Jesus reigning as King in Jerusalem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.