The Times of the Gentiles

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Jan 17, 2020
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#1
The Times of the Gentiles

Dave L.jpg

Dave L


Speaking of 70 AD and Jerusalem’s destruction, Jesus says; “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24 (KJV 1900)

Many believe 1948 and the Jews moving into Palestine signaled an end to the times of the gentiles. But if we backtrack to the beginning of Israel and those traditionally called Jews, they began as gentiles. And became Abraham’s covenant seed through circumcision. In fact, none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then.

So it was always circumcision the sign of the covenant and membership in the community that made one a “Jew”, not birth. If any born did not receive circumcision on their eighth day, they cut them off from the group and they remained a gentile. When Abraham excommunicated Ishmael, he became a gentile even though circumcised as his son.

So Jerusalem being trodden down by gentiles means everything you see today. Trodden down by the uncircumcised. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, circumcision became obsolete and no longer made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. He excommunicated all unbelieving Jews. No longer were they Abraham’s covenant seed but gentiles with Jewish ethnicity.

And when Paul’s generation of before Calvary circumcised Jews died off, nothing remained to separate them from the gentiles. From then on they became gentiles by default.

Only the circumcised in heart, believers like Abraham and Paul remained biblical Israel into whom God grafted believing gentiles.

When do the times of the Gentiles end?

Jesus said: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:19–20 (KJV 1900)

Meaning the times of the gentiles including ethnic Jews remain until the end of the world. And from all Paul says “God will save all Israel, defined as believers in Christ.


 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#2
Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#3
Many believe 1948 and the Jews moving into Palestine signaled an end to the times of the gentiles. But if we backtrack to the beginning of Israel and those traditionally called Jews, they began as gentiles. And became Abraham’s covenant seed through circumcision. In fact, none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then.
Your post is interesting, though I don't believe the Bible supports your assertion that God considers unbelieving ethnic Jews to be "gentiles".

I have to ask what you mean by the statement in bold, above. On the face, it looks like circular reasoning.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#4
Your post is interesting, though I don't believe the Bible supports your assertion that God considers unbelieving ethnic Jews to be "gentiles".

I have to ask what you mean by the statement in bold, above. On the face, it looks like circular reasoning.
They are gentiles now that circumcision no longer works as it once did.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#5
They are gentiles now that circumcision no longer works as it once did.
That does not follow. One's ethnicity does not change on the basis of belief. Ethnic Jews are ethnic Jews, period.

Once again, what do you mean by your statement, "none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then"?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#6
That does not follow. One's ethnicity does not change on the basis of belief. Ethnic Jews are ethnic Jews, period.

Once again, what do you mean by your statement, "none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then"?
God made of one blood all people.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#8
A response is not an answer. Answer my question, please.
The Jews are the same blood as everyone else. Only circumcision set them apart until Calvary.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#9
The Jews are the same blood as everyone else. Only circumcision set them apart until Calvary.
Please don't waste your time with snappy facile responses. I asked you a direct question, twice. You have not answered it. I see no point in continuing a discussion with someone unwilling to prove a clear, relevant, meaningful answer a simple question.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#10
Please don't waste your time with snappy facile responses. I asked you a direct question, twice. You have not answered it. I see no point in continuing a discussion with someone unwilling to prove a clear, relevant, meaningful answer a simple question.
Drop the insults and I might continue with you.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,648
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#11
The word, Jew, is come from the name of Judah, the son of Leah and the head of the tribe of the same name.

A Jew was anyone of that tribe, however it has evolved etymologically into the name of a religion or an umbrella title for many sects, orthodox, reform, and so on, which did not exist until it began with the schisms about the time of Jesus. Sadducess were one of the beginning who had the dogma there is no resurrection.
To understand the true meaning of just what a true Jew is one must return to the birth of Judah.

Leah rejoiced when she gave birth to a male child and declared I will now praise Yahweh for He has heard my plea. Read also in Romans Paul's discourse on what a tru Jew is. Basically a true Jew is anyone who praisess Yahweh..God.
Israel are those who reign with Elohanu, God.

Thus all who praise God and will be with God in the Kingdom are the true Jews and the true Israel. A no -brainer when we learn what the prophets are saying regarding these words. If this is hard for any to digest, it may be that they have an ego problem, for it is quite direct in the Word from Genesis to the final amen of Revelation...
 
Nov 8, 2019
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#12
The Times of the Gentiles

View attachment 211155

Dave L


Speaking of 70 AD and Jerusalem’s destruction, Jesus says; “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24 (KJV 1900)


Many believe 1948 and the Jews moving into Palestine signaled an end to the times of the gentiles. But if we backtrack to the beginning of Israel and those traditionally called Jews, they began as gentiles. And became Abraham’s covenant seed through circumcision. In fact, none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then.

So it was always circumcision the sign of the covenant and membership in the community that made one a “Jew”, not birth. If any born did not receive circumcision on their eighth day, they cut them off from the group and they remained a gentile. When Abraham excommunicated Ishmael, he became a gentile even though circumcised as his son.

So Jerusalem being trodden down by gentiles means everything you see today. Trodden down by the uncircumcised. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, circumcision became obsolete and no longer made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. He excommunicated all unbelieving Jews. No longer were they Abraham’s covenant seed but gentiles with Jewish ethnicity.

And when Paul’s generation of before Calvary circumcised Jews died off, nothing remained to separate them from the gentiles. From then on they became gentiles by default.

Only the circumcised in heart, believers like Abraham and Paul remained biblical Israel into whom God grafted believing gentiles.

When do the times of the Gentiles end?

Jesus said: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:19–20 (KJV 1900)

Meaning the times of the gentiles including ethnic Jews remain until the end of the world. And from all Paul says “God will save all Israel, defined as believers in Christ.
Are you saying that the Ethnic Jews in Israel are Gentiles? Would you say that despite United States being a Nation of Circumcised, they are not Jews or Christians? Would you consider the possibility that the Ethnic Jews in Israel are actually White Muslims and the United States is an Islamic Nation? The United States had/has Chattel Slavery Black Slaves.


Prevalence of circumcision

United States

"During the 2000s, the prevalence of circumcision in men aged 14–59 differed by race: 91 percent of white men, 76 percent of black men, and 44 percent of Hispanic men were circumcised, according to data in Mayo Clinic Proceedings...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision#Americas


Muhammad: The White Prophet with Black Slaves (David Wood)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#13
Are you saying that the Ethnic Jews in Israel are Gentiles? Would you say that despite United States being a Nation of Circumcised, they are not Jews or Christians? Would you consider the possibility that the Ethnic Jews in Israel are actually White Muslims and the United States is an Islamic Nation? The United States had/has Chattel Slavery Black Slaves.


Prevalence of circumcision

United States

"During the 2000s, the prevalence of circumcision in men aged 14–59 differed by race: 91 percent of white men, 76 percent of black men, and 44 percent of Hispanic men were circumcised, according to data in Mayo Clinic Proceedings...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision#Americas


Muhammad: The White Prophet with Black Slaves (David Wood)
Jesus abolished circumcision as the ritual that turned gentiles in to Jews (in the common sense of the term). Just as Baptism turns gentiles into Catholics etc.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#14
Scripture never calls anyone "gentile" who was born ethnically Jewish.
 
Nov 8, 2019
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London, England
#15
Jesus abolished circumcision as the ritual that turned gentiles in to Jews (in the common sense of the term). Just as Baptism turns gentiles into Catholics etc.
You did not answer any of the questions. The questions are likely to be intimidating for most people and might also appear mad.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#16
You did not answer any of the questions. The questions are likely to be intimidating for most people and might also appear mad.
I don't know where your question leads. So I present my views on what made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#17
Scripture never calls anyone "gentile" who was born ethnically Jewish.
But they were gentiles made Jews( loose sense of the term) by circumcision, now abolished.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,654
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#18
The Times of the Gentiles
[…]
Many believe 1948 and the Jews moving into Palestine signaled an end to the times of the gentiles. But if […]
This phrase is often mis-applied to [incorrectly] mean something akin to [the common phrase] "the church age".

It doesn't mean that.

And most pre-mills, and even most pre-tribbers (unless they be uninformed), do not use this phrase in such a way.

For that is not its meaning.

Yes, "the TIMES of the Gentiles" stretches clear to the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (per Lk21:24b and Rev11:2b).

But here is where "amill-teachings" have it wrong: "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to "Gentile domination over Israel" and which starting-point goes back to 606/605bc, think Neb's dream/statue/image with Neb as "head of gold" (NOT starting in the first century regarding "Gentile believers" or the so-called "church age" in this phrase! That is to mis-apply this phrase and give it an inaccurate meaning.)



[note: the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. 'Gentile domination over Israel' [with Neb as 'head of gold']), in Lk21:24b, is completely distinct in meaning from that of the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" in Rom11:25(15)]


Until the "amill-teachings" (those who hold to it) give this some considerable study (to wrench from their minds this INCORRECT idea/definition/application they've attached to this phrase), they will continue to miss what is actually being conveyed.

No [or rather "few"] pre-mills (even pre-tribbers) deny that "the TIMES of the Gentiles" CONCLUDES at the time of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (per Lk21:24b/Rev11:2), but it is NOT defined as [what is commonly known as] "the church age" (which has nothing to do with it; its starting point was not in the first century and is not speaking of "saints"/"believers" nor "the Church which is His body" or the like--that is to completely mis-apply the phrase and attach a wrong definition to it)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#19
This phrase is often mis-applied to [incorrectly] mean something akin to [the common phrase] "the church age".

It doesn't mean that.

And most pre-mills, and even most pre-tribbers (unless they be uninformed), do not use this phrase in such a way.

For that is not its meaning.

Yes, "the TIMES of the Gentiles" stretches clear to the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (per Lk21:24b and Rev11:2b).

But here is where "amill-teachings" have it wrong: "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to "Gentile domination over Israel" and which starting-point goes back to 606/605bc, think Neb's dream/statue/image with Neb as "head of gold" (NOT starting in the first century regarding "Gentile believers" or the so-called "church age" in this phrase! That is to mis-apply this phrase and give it an inaccurate meaning.)



[note: the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. 'Gentile domination over Israel' [with Neb as 'head of gold']), in Lk21:24b, is completely distinct in meaning from that of the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" in Rom11:25(15)]


Until the "amill-teachings" (those who hold to it) give this some considerable study (to wrench from their minds this INCORRECT idea/definition/application they've attached to this phrase), they will continue to miss what is actually being conveyed.

No [or rather "few"] pre-mills (even pre-tribbers) deny that "the TIMES of the Gentiles" CONCLUDES at the time of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (per Lk21:24b/Rev11:2), but it is NOT defined as [what is commonly known as] "the church age" (which has nothing to do with it; its starting point was not in the first century and is not speaking of "saints"/"believers" nor "the Church which is His body" or the like--that is to completely mis-apply the phrase and attach a wrong definition to it)
Times of the gentiles = the grafting of believing gentiles into Israel through the gospel.
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
328
164
43
#20
That does not follow. One's ethnicity does not change on the basis of belief. Ethnic Jews are ethnic Jews, period.

Once again, what do you mean by your statement, "none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then"?
This is the true madness of replacement theology.

"There are no real Jews"
"These ethnic Jews are antichrists they reject Jesus"
"We are the real Jews those guys are fake"
"but then again there are no real jews"
"We are spiritual Jews and physical jews dont exist"
"They are gentiles"
"Israel was only blinded in part, so that means part of the church is blinded. not church i mean ethnic Israel that doesnt exist, yet does, or doesnt"

These guys are all over the place.

Here is how I see it:
THE CHURCH which is His body is made up of ALL saved Jews AND Gentiles. We are by faith Abraham's seed
Israel is the offspring of Jacob and God will keep His promise to them as well.