The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?
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"So, you would believe and teach that the Lord puts His bride through His wrath first and then comes to get her afterwards, which would put the living church through the same punishment as the wicked. Is that what you're saying? Is it the nature of God to punish the righteous with the wicked"
Yes,definitely
In fact He gave us Noah and Lot as prejudgement examples.
How can that possibly be misconstrued?
Yes,definitely
In fact He gave us Noah and Lot as prejudgement examples.
How can that possibly be misconstrued?
Good day iamsoandso,
The woman is unbelieving Israel, i.e. the nation Israel who did not and does not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Out of the woman will come 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel who will acknowledge Jesus as Messiah, ergo, she gives birth to. The male child is caught up to God and His throne escaping from the dragon who is waiting to devour it. The woman/Israel flees out into the desert where she will be cared for by God for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period. At some time during this period unbelieving Israel will recognize Jesus as Messiah and say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
So, the short version is, currently the woman/Israel does not believe in Jesus, but she will later.
The woman is unbelieving Israel, i.e. the nation Israel who did not and does not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Out of the woman will come 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel who will acknowledge Jesus as Messiah, ergo, she gives birth to. The male child is caught up to God and His throne escaping from the dragon who is waiting to devour it. The woman/Israel flees out into the desert where she will be cared for by God for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period. At some time during this period unbelieving Israel will recognize Jesus as Messiah and say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
So, the short version is, currently the woman/Israel does not believe in Jesus, but she will later.
Hello Absolutely,
In your post above, are you saying that God is going to put the church through His wrath?
Noah and Lot were removed from God's punishment while remaining on the earth. However, the wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and whatever the two witnesses bring will be a time of great tribulation that the world has ever seen, where the majority of the population is killed and all human government dismantled. Therefore, God is not going to leave the church on the earth and protect her in the midst of His wrath, but is going to fulfill His promise by coming to get us and remove us prior to His wrath.
Also, why would say "Yes, definitely" that God would punish the righteous with the wicked?
Am I misread your post?
In your post above, are you saying that God is going to put the church through His wrath?
Noah and Lot were removed from God's punishment while remaining on the earth. However, the wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and whatever the two witnesses bring will be a time of great tribulation that the world has ever seen, where the majority of the population is killed and all human government dismantled. Therefore, God is not going to leave the church on the earth and protect her in the midst of His wrath, but is going to fulfill His promise by coming to get us and remove us prior to His wrath.
Also, why would say "Yes, definitely" that God would punish the righteous with the wicked?
Am I misread your post?
No! No! Please don't put words in my mouth. The woman of Rev.12 is not the harlot and you will never find any post where I said that. It is by your own misunderstanding of the two women that you came to that conclusion.
Understand this, the woman of Rev.12 IS NOT the same woman who rides the beast in Rev.17. They are figuratively representing two completely different women.
The woman of Rev.12 represents Israel, while the woman of Rev.17 who rides the beast is that pagan religious system, that counterfeit church. That she is figuratively called a prostitute would infer that she is being disobedient to the Lord while claiming to be His true follower. The woman is that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth and which sits on seven hills/mountains. This is pointing us to Rome/Vatican and her pagan religious system of Roman Catholicism.
The woman of Revelation 12 = The nation Israel
The woman who rides the beast = Roman/Vatican and her pagan system of Roman Catholicism
Understand this, the woman of Rev.12 IS NOT the same woman who rides the beast in Rev.17. They are figuratively representing two completely different women.
The woman of Rev.12 represents Israel, while the woman of Rev.17 who rides the beast is that pagan religious system, that counterfeit church. That she is figuratively called a prostitute would infer that she is being disobedient to the Lord while claiming to be His true follower. The woman is that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth and which sits on seven hills/mountains. This is pointing us to Rome/Vatican and her pagan religious system of Roman Catholicism.
The woman of Revelation 12 = The nation Israel
The woman who rides the beast = Roman/Vatican and her pagan system of Roman Catholicism
They are not connected. The mark is natural unconverted mankind 666 the number of uncoverted mankind. . The mark of Cain the restless wanderer. No sabbath rest in the affections of this life .a punishment that he could not bear that Christ did bear. The buying and selling has to do with the gospel the seal on the foreheads to represent will.
The parable has all but been literalized taking away the unseen understanding as those who walk by sight seeking after literal signs
The last sign and wonder is long gone. We walk by faith the eternal not seen, not after signs and wonderments. No sign as a wonder (source of faith)
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet
[pre-tribber here 
]
No. Not all trib saints will die.
I've listed (before), about 12 distinct references of "still-living/-alive" persons/saints at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (who will ENTER the earthly MK age in mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing [this is BESIDES the "resurrected" saints (those saints who DIE in the trib); and besides the previously translated/changed/glorified/perfected "Church which is His body" having been "raptured" well before this point in the chronology])...
for one example, what do you do with Daniel 12:12, "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days." THIS is a "still-living" person/saint at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth; now entering the promised and prophesied earthly MK. (So is Matt25:31-34 and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passages [Jesus addressing their later Q if Him in Matt24:3 is based on His ALREADY-having spoken to them about this in Matt13], among many, many others--as I said, I've listed 12 references to same, in the past)
]No. Not all trib saints will die.
I've listed (before), about 12 distinct references of "still-living/-alive" persons/saints at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (who will ENTER the earthly MK age in mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing [this is BESIDES the "resurrected" saints (those saints who DIE in the trib); and besides the previously translated/changed/glorified/perfected "Church which is His body" having been "raptured" well before this point in the chronology])...
for one example, what do you do with Daniel 12:12, "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days." THIS is a "still-living" person/saint at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth; now entering the promised and prophesied earthly MK. (So is Matt25:31-34 and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passages [Jesus addressing their later Q if Him in Matt24:3 is based on His ALREADY-having spoken to them about this in Matt13], among many, many others--as I said, I've listed 12 references to same, in the past)
Yes, but Jesus as the sun of righteousness has nothing to do with the woman clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars. This would be a misapplication of scripture. Why go after Mal.4:2 when you have an exact match in Genesis 37:9-10? Mal.4:2 would be quite a stretch to link it to the woman of Rev.12.
Louis, instead of repeating the same things that I have already responded to, please address the answers that I have given, instead of ignoring them. As I said, after the Abyss is opened the come down upon the land, which is where the shaft to the Abyss is located.
If those things are what you believe, then you can believe that. I have already told you what I believe and why.
If those things are what you believe, then you can believe that. I have already told you what I believe and why.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/11.htm
In Rev.11:1 a temple is measured. In Revelation 11;19 the temple of God "in heaven is opened". Then in Revelation 12:1 and Rev.12:3 the vision/sign seen is "in heaven". The woman is the temple of God in Revelation 11:19. In Revelation 12:11 and 12:17 the woman believes in Jesus and has his testimony (not unbelievers). In Revelation 12:17 it ends with, "...on the sands of the sea..." (it goes with ch.13),,,(Rev. 11:19 is the beginning of Rev.12 ect.).
In Rev.11:1 a temple is measured. In Revelation 11;19 the temple of God "in heaven is opened". Then in Revelation 12:1 and Rev.12:3 the vision/sign seen is "in heaven". The woman is the temple of God in Revelation 11:19. In Revelation 12:11 and 12:17 the woman believes in Jesus and has his testimony (not unbelievers). In Revelation 12:17 it ends with, "...on the sands of the sea..." (it goes with ch.13),,,(Rev. 11:19 is the beginning of Rev.12 ect.).