The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

[cv5]

Rev 19:7 (The Raptured Church, the Bride of Christ, making herself ready).

“Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

What follows? Goodness...the Second Coming of course, and the harvest judgment!

Rev:19:11

And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Evidently you will miss out on the Marriage Supper. Tragic and unnecessary.

 

[cv5]

http://storage.cloversites.com/maki...documents/16 Proofs of a Pre-Trib Rapture.pdf

Yes, all of the loose ends are neatly tied together in a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Our Blessed Hope. Believe me when I tell you it is a comfort.

 

[Absolutely]

The context is not a mythological "rapture", but a departure from the faith.

Fits pretrib either way.
I am comfortable either way.
The greek ONLY has "departure".
(Says something like "from standing" or "leaving")
You have to add "from the faith".
"From the faith" COULD be implied,and many do to MAKE it that.
IOW it could mean what i want it to mean,but only says "departure"
Pretrib once again has the high ground.

 

[cv5]

http://storage.cloversites.com/makinglifecountministriesinc/documents/16 Proofs of a Pre-Trib Rapture.pdf

Yes, all of the loose ends are neatly tied together in a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Our Blessed Hope. Believe me when I tell you it is a comfort.

There it is again! Taken out of the way THEN the lawless one will be revealed. That's us folks. The Bride of Christ. The Church. Loved and protected and NOT TO SUFFER WRATH.

2Thess 2:7

"Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming."

 

[Absolutely]

http://storage.cloversites.com/maki...documents/16 Proofs of a Pre-Trib Rapture.pdf

Yes, all of the loose ends are neatly tied together in a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Our Blessed Hope. Believe me when I tell you it is a comfort.

Remove the pretrib verses and ...pooooof! Other doctrines get traction(but only amoungst their own camps. They get owned in here big time. LOL)

 

[cv5]

Fits pretrib either way.
I am comfortable either way.
The greek ONLY has "departure".
(Says something like "from standing" or "leaving")
You have to add "from the faith".
"From the faith" COULD be implied,and many do to MAKE it that.
IOW it could mean what i want it to mean,but only says "departure"
Pretrib once again has the high ground.

Agree, I have waded thru all of the Greek permutations, and it can have either meanings, but the definite article term "he" solidifies the intent. It is removal from proximity. Fits all of the rest of the passage, including vs 7 & 8, which alludes to the exact same event and exact same entities....the Church and the Man of Lawlessness.

 

[Absolutely]

Noun
discessiō f (genitive discessiōnis); third declension

1. withdrawal
2. dispersal
3. separation, division

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discessio

By the way:

"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure."

Mr. Davey came to this conclusion for his "thesis" in 1982 at a dispensationalist seminary, no peer review and hardly a credible source:

“The Apostasia of II Thessalonians 2:3.” ThM thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, 1982."

lmao that T. Ice is using the above in his dispensational desperation.

...and in no way do you NEED it to say what you claim!
You have basically a shaky "maybe".
And that maybe may be.
But as far as a postrib gathering or rapture you have zero.
Total zero.

 

[Absolutely]

Agree, I have waded thru all of the Greek permutations, and it can have either meanings, but the definite article term "he" solidifies the intent. It is removal from proximity. Fits all of the rest of the passage, including vs 7 & 8, which alludes to the exact same event and exact same entities....the Church and the Man of Lawlessness.

Yeah it is no pivitol smoking gun for either side,just a little comical that they need it to say shipwrecked believers and we can take it or let it say what the greek says.

 

[iamsoandso]

...and in no way do you NEED it to say what you claim!
You have basically a shaky "maybe".
And that maybe may be.
But as far as a postrib gathering or rapture you have zero.
Total zero.

azamzimtoti is a preterist not post tribulation.

 

[cv5]

Yeah it is no pivitol smoking gun for either side,just a little comical that they need it to say shipwrecked believers and we can take it or let it say what the greek says.

https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-7.htm

ἐκ μέσου γένηται

No honest biblical scholar can EVER say that this term does not mean removed from proximity.
And it parallels precisely vs 3. This redundancy nails the meaning of the passage beyond refutation IMO.

Pre-Trib Rapure it is. Our Blessed Hope!

 

[cv5]

azamzimtoti is a preterist not post tribulation.

Tragically. Preterists are the most astonishingly addled group of all heretics IMO.

 

[cv5]

Noun
discessiō f (genitive discessiōnis); third declension

1. withdrawal
2. dispersal
3. separation, division

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discessio

By the way:

"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure."

Mr. Davey came to this conclusion for his "thesis" in 1982 at a dispensationalist seminary, no peer review and hardly a credible source:

“The Apostasia of II Thessalonians 2:3.” ThM thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, 1982."

lmao that T. Ice is using the above in his dispensational desperation.

ἐκ μέσου γένηται

 

[Absolutely]

Here's the deal,just play it out.
The ac is revealed. Obcessed with killing those that belong to Christ.
Starts an immediate round up of believers.
Awwww,there we sit in a facility. All broken hearted with postribs sneering at us "we told you your filthy groom bride nonsense was trash!"
Then boom!
Us brides start floating upward.

Still a pretrib rapture no matter what.
Not even they live to see the end of the gt.
IOW mat 25 basically has Jesus telling the foolish (all those believers looking up at our feet getting smaller) "yall don't loose your heads now"
But it actually says "i know you not"
The 5 foolish are beheaded.
All 10 virgins attend the feast

 

[Absolutely]

Hardly, you are presenting bogus "case" from others as an appeal to some kind of authority.



The pivotal question is why are you and the guy you quoted making stuff up. Paul is not saying they missed the "rapture", he's talking about their gathering to Him in their lifetime, NOT some dispensational dudes and dudettes hundreds of years later

(2 Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him)

Greek G1997 episunagoge - gather.

Paul is using the word exactly as Jesus used it here:

(Mat 23:37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling )

(Mat 24:31“ And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.)

There is no concept of "rapture" found in Thessalonians.

Is mat 25 equally a farce Jesus made up?

 

[Absolutely]

azamzimtoti is a preterist not post tribulation.

Ok thanks .
That is another planet.
No rapture.
No bride probably
Lol

 

[cv5]

It sure became awfully quiet here after the inevitable facts pertaining the the Pre-Trib Rapture were presented? What happened to the detractors?

 

[KJV1611]

It's possible I was seeing a different footnote? My point remains the same.

The verb form (of this "noun" word under discussion) is used in 1Tim4:1 "some SHALL DEPART FROM [G868 - apostēsontai / aphistémi (apo histemi--a standing away)] the faith"... and I had supplied the author (another Greek scholar, from what I recall) pointing out that the necessity of adding the words "[from] the faith" is because that idea (of departure from some FAITH issue) is not inherent in the word itself! (neither do we automatically assume that "a departure FROM MOSES" is what is meant here in 2Th2, just because this word is used in Acts 21:21 in just such a way [note: "forsake" is a VERB, but we are looking at a NOUN, here]--the basic meaning of the word is simply "departure"... the CONTEXT tells us "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant, and the definite article is used to point to something already/previously mentioned in the context, not the upcoming/later words in the context)

The original word is apostasy not departure. We’re not looking back for context, apostasy means falling away from faith.

So no we

 

[KJV1611]

Still waiting for an answer to my post re: Israelites peaching mid-Trib. Good luck finding anwers. There aren't any that satisfy except a Pre-Trib Rapture!

Amo 7:8 (KJV) And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:

Does Amos 7:8 seem to indicate that God would ever use those Plumbline killing rebels ever again?

How about Amos 8:2?

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

How about Amos 8:2? Does that sound like God intends on using those Christ killers again?


Israel worshippers it’s your turn to twist those words to fit dispensationalism.

 

[jb]

a Pre-Trib Rapture. Our Blessed Hope.

Titus 2v13: looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

The blessed hope of the Church is a GLORIOUS APPEARING of Our Dear Lord Jesus, not a secret coming!

You completely contradict yourself at every turn! Lol

 

[iamsoandso]

Amo 7:8 (KJV) And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:

Does Amos 7:8 seem to indicate that God would ever use those Plumbline killing rebels ever again?

How about Amos 8:2?

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

How about Amos 8:2? Does that sound like God intends on using those Christ killers again?


Israel worshippers it’s your turn to twist those words to fit dispensationalism.

Bare in mind I am not a disp... https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+11:11-12&version=KJV