The Trinity Discussion

[jaybird88]

Your interpretation of these texts is wrong.

As human beings and believers in Christ we are NOT part of the Godhead.
We may be part of the Kingdom of God of which Jesus Christ is the head but that does NOT make us divine!

The Trinity is a doctrine about the nature of the divinity of God.
Human beings are never a part of that.

The fact that you do believe that humans are part of the Godhead unmasks a severe problem with your theology...

so the family of Jesus and the Father is not for believers, we are just left on the outside looking in?

 

[trofimus]

that scripture says not to deny the Son. i was asking for a scripture where Jesus teaches that one must believe the Son is the Most High or they are not saved and go straight to the hot place. where is that teaching?

does denying the Son mean one is saying the Son is not the Most High? that same passage says denying the Son is denying He is the Christ.
1 John 2 22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him.
The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1

....

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."
John 1:14

----

Do I need to say more?

 

[graceNpeace]

that scripture says not to deny the Son. i was asking for a scripture where Jesus teaches that one must believe the Son is the Most High or they are not saved and go straight to the hot place. where is that teaching?

does denying the Son mean one is saying the Son is not the Most High? that same passage says denying the Son is denying He is the Christ.
1 John 2 22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

Surely, accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour means accepting EVERYTHING that Jesus Christ is and was?
If one denies one aspect of who Jesus Christ is and was then one misses the whole boat!

 

[jaybird88]

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him.
The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1

....

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."
John 1:14

----

Need I say more?

sorry still not what im asking for. your giving me scriptures that your interpreting to say this. i want to see a plain teaching. i am pretty sure there are none.

 

[savedtoast]

i think many confuse the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of man. the pharisees had the same confusion, how many times did Jesus have to set those guys straight.

Yes, much confusion.

 

[trofimus]

sorry still not what im asking for. your giving me scriptures that your interpreting to say this. i want to see a plain teaching. i am pretty sure there are none.

I interpreted nothing. You probably recognize how strongly this is against your view so you think I am interpreting it.

But if you read my post again, you will see that only question "Do I need to say more"? was written by me.

 

[jaybird88]

Surely, accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour means accepting EVERYTHING that Jesus Christ is and was?
If one denies one aspect of who Jesus Christ is and was then one misses the whole boat!

everything Jesus is or everything man made doctrines say Jesus is?

i think the end of John says whats important to believe:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; [SUP]31 [/SUP]but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

there is no mention of a trinity and no mention that one must believe the Son is the Most High. neither are they mentioned in the Apostles creed. if they were a requirement for salvation i would think there would be an explanation.

 

[jaybird88]

I interpreted nothing. You probably recognize how strongly this is against your view so you think I am interpreting it.

But if you read my post again, you will see that only question "Do I need to say more"? was written by me.

well then then there is nothing in the passage that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation.

 

[MasterAnakinSW]

To support Nehemiah6, in the original Hebrew that Genesis was written in, the first appearance was not God but the Elohim. Loosely translated, Elohim means counsil. Easily can be transfered over to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy spirit, only if we want to put labels on it. Remember "God" is not the actual name of the Almighty but only a title in which we humans put on an entity in which we can not explain in the physical. As a matter of fact we as humans are never and cannot pronounce the true name of God. At any rate, God in three, truly valid and definitely possible.

 

[MasterAnakinSW]

I believe in GOD the FATHER Almighty, creater of heaven and earth and through his only SON our LORD....conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT.....Where now is there no mention of the the Holy Trinity in the Apostles Creed? Jaybird, you may want to read it over again, and again, and again....

 

[trofimus]

well then then there is nothing in the passage that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation.

Well, in such a case such a believer does not belive in tuns of Scriptures.

I do not know what you mean by the special term "the Most High", John is clearly saying Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Creator of everything.

If He is the Creator of everything, He is also the most high, because everything else is created by Him.

 

[jaybird88]

Well, in such a case such a believer does not belive in tuns of Scriptures.

I do not know what you mean by the special term "the Most High", John is clearly saying Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Creator of everything.

If He is the Creator of everything, He is also the most high, because everything else is created by Him.

Most High is G-D Most High

if John was clearly saying that he would say Jesus is the Most High

 

[jb]

The Trinity Discussion

It would be worthwhile looking at the (full) Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed to see what the early Church believed, ANY kind of deviation from the theology in them was looked upon as DESTRUCTIVE HERESY and any such persons believing anything different were immediately excommunicated from the Church!

The attacks upon the Godhead and the truth of the Trinity in the early Church where ALWAYS directed against the true diety and humanity of the Lord Jesus and three persons in the Godhead, The Trinity. Some of these evil doctrines the Devil has repackaged and presented them to us in our time as well, i.e., that put forward by the Jehovah Witnesses is "Arianism" or the Jesus Only (which came back into the Church in the early part of the 20th century) teaching is "Modalistic Monarchianism."

For those interested you can find a bit of a study Here dealing with this subject...

 

[jaybird88]

I believe in GOD the FATHER Almighty, creater of heaven and earth and through his only SON our LORD....conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT.....Where now is there no mention of the the Holy Trinity in the Apostles Creed? Jaybird, you may want to read it over again, and again, and again....

reading it over and over will not make the doctrine show up.

 

[graceNpeace]

Most High is G-D Most High

if John was clearly saying that he would say Jesus is the Most High

So, there a rankings in the Godhead then?

 

[trofimus]

Most High is G-D Most High

if John was clearly saying that he would say Jesus is the Most High

Do you accept that Jesus is Logos who came in flesh and that He is God and that He is the Creator of everything?

If not, you are refusing many Scriptures.

If yes, I am not seeing any logic in your other statements.

 

[jaybird88]

So, there a rankings in the Godhead then?

the term god or elohim is used often in scripture not always meaning the Almighty.

Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.)

this passage is specific to the creator

1 Samuel 28:13
The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.”

the god here is not the creator

 

[graceNpeace]

the term god or elohim is used often in scripture not always meaning the Almighty.

Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.)

this passage is specific to the creator

1 Samuel 28:13
The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.”

the god here is not the creator

I think you are confused, 1 Sam 28:13 is not referring to any kind of divinity.

And, you have not answered the question.

 

[jaybird88]

Do you accept that Jesus is Logos who came in flesh and that He is God and that He is the Creator of everything?

If not, you are refusing many Scriptures.

If yes, I am not seeing any logic in your other statements.

it makes no difference what i say or believe, what does the scripture say. where does it say that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation?

 

[jaybird88]

I think you are confused, 1 Sam 28:13 is not referring to any kind of divinity.

And, you have not answered the question.

i cant make sense of what you are trying to ask.