The Trinity Discussion

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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well in the bible God said He would raise [the horn of our adversaries],
and that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws".

In the seventh chapter of the book of Daniel is an amazing prophecy picturing for 2,500
years into the future, from the day it was written, the course of the Gentile kingdoms.

Starting with the ancient Chaldean Empire of Nebuchadnezzar, this prophecy foretells
the successive [world rule] of the Persian Empire, Alexander’s Greco-Macedonian
kingdom with its four divisions, and finally, of the mighty Roman Empire.

Out of the original Roman Empire, symbolized by 10 “horns” growing out of the head
of a “beast,” are pictured the 10 resurrections of the Roman Empire that have continued
since its fall to the present, and are scheduled to continue until the coming of Christ.

Among these 10 kingdoms which have ruled in the Western world since the fall of Rome
to the present, appeared another “little horn,” whose “look was more stout than his fellows.”
In other words, another government, actually smaller, yet dominating over all the others.

Students of prophecy recognize this “little horn” as a great religious hierarchy. And in the
25th verse of this prophecy, it is stated that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws.”
The last seven horns comprise a church-state relationship, the Holy- Roman empire.

How Time Was Changed

This same power is mentioned again in the 17th chapter of Revelation, here pictured
as ruling over the kings and kingdoms of the Earth, persecuting the true saints.

In every possible manner, this power has changed time!

God begins the days at sunset, but “the little horn” has changed it so the world now
begins the day in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the week with the ending of the true Sabbath, the seventh day of the week,
but the world begins the working week in the middle of the night, the second day of the week.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this “little horn” has induced the world
to begin the months according to a clumsy man-made calendar of heathen origin.

-
Lamentations 2:17
The Lord hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had
commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath
caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.
Are you a seventh day adventist? Your view is very similar to theirs.

Also, your post is quite irrelevant to my post you are reacting to.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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your post is quite irrelevant to my post you are reacting to.

"If it is in the Bible, it was not invented by Constantin".

And, bad for you, it is in the Bible.
Constantine was pagan, the change to the trinity concept, and also sun worship
is not condoned in the bible sorry to say.

“Before the coming of Christ, all the Eastern nations performed divine worship with their faces turned
to that part of the heavens where the sun displays his rising beams ... The Christian converts ... retained
the ancient and universal custom of worshiping toward the east, which sprang from it.” Mosheim’s
Ecclesiastical History, century II, part II, ch. IV, par. 7.

“Sunday (Dies Solis, of the Roman calendar; ‘day of the sun,’ because it was dedicated to the sun),
the first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship.” Schaff-Herzog
Encyclopaedia of Religious Knowledge, Art. “Sunday.”

Constantine, Catholicism, sun worship and the Sabbath to Sunday change

In 312 A.D., prior to his pivotal victory over his rival Maxentius at the Battle of Milvian Bridge,
Constantine became a “Christian” after claiming to see in broad daylight a vision of “a cross above
the sun” with these words emblazoned, “in hoc signo vinces” (by this sign conquer”). After defeating
his enemies and becoming Emperor of Rome, Constantine presided in full royal pomp over the
“First Council of Nicea” in 325 A.D.

A shrewd political genius, his scheme was to unite paganism and Christianity in an effort to strengthen
his disintegrating empire. Constantine knew that pagans throughout the empire worshiped the sun on
“the first day of the week,” and he discovered that many Christians and especially in Rome and
Alexandria also kept ‘Sunday’ because Christ rose from the dead on that day. So Constantine developed
a plan to unite both groups on the common platform of Sunday keeping. On March 7, 321 A.D., he
passed his famous national Sunday law:

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all
workshops be closed.” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History
of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

And another source: “Let all judges and townspeople and occupations of all trades rest on the
venerable day of the Sun [Sunday]; nevertheless, let those who are situated in the rural districts
freely and with full liberty attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it so frequently happens
that no other day may be so fitting for ploughing grains or trenching vineyards, lest at the time
the advantage of the moment granted by the provision of heaven may be lost.”
The Code of Justinian, Book 3, title 12, law 3.

Now a professed Christian, Constantine nevertheless remained a devout sun worshipper. “The sun was
universally celebrated as the invincible guide and protector of Constantine,” notes Edward Gibbon in
his classic Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, ch. xx, par. 3.

Constantine even printed coins which “bore on the one side the letters of the name of Christ, on the
other the figure of the sun god.” Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, lect. vi, par. 14.

Again, Constantine’s promotion of Sunday observance was part of his definite strategy to combine
paganism with Christianity: “The retention of the old pagan name of dies Solis, or ‘Sunday,’ for the
weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment
with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and
Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’” Stanley’s History of the Eastern Church, p. 184.

“The Jewish, the Samaritan, even the Christian, were to be fused and recast into one great system,
of which the sun was to be the central object of adoration.” Henry Milman, The History of
Christianity, Book 2, chap. 8, Vol. 22, p. 175.

In 330 A.D., Constantine moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople (modern Istanbul), thus
preparing the way for the Roman Catholic Popes to reign in Rome as the successors of Constantine.
As the Papal Church grew in power, it opposed Sabbath observance in favour of Sunday sacredness
and made the day change official in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363-364).

Constantine’s plan was successful and the result of his Sunday law was now fully accepted and
adopted by the Papal Church, and the Sabbath to Sunday change was complete. Some correctly
teach that Constantine only instituted the first Sunday law, but they very conveniently fail to
acknowledge why and the remainder of the story. The Council of Laodicea around A.D. 364
decreed 59 Canon laws. Canon XXIX: “Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath,
but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as
Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.” .

-

The Sabbath is also for the “stranger” who are Gentiles. (Exodus 20:10)
In “the new earth ... from one Sabbath to another, shall ALL FLESH
come to worship before me, saith the Lord.” (Isaiah 66:22-23)

no where in the bible is the Lords day called sunday,
no where in the bible is the Sabbath day done away with and changed.


Constantine did not get above truths from the bible.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,257
376
83
Constantine was pagan, the change to the trinity concept, and also sun worship
is not condoned in the bible sorry to say.

“Before the coming of Christ, all the Eastern nations performed divine worship with their faces turned
to that part of the heavens where the sun displays his rising beams ... The Christian converts ... retained
the ancient and universal custom of worshiping toward the east, which sprang from it.” Mosheim’s
Ecclesiastical History, century II, part II, ch. IV, par. 7.

“Sunday (Dies Solis, of the Roman calendar; ‘day of the sun,’ because it was dedicated to the sun),
the first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship.” Schaff-Herzog
Encyclopaedia of Religious Knowledge, Art. “Sunday.”

Constantine, Catholicism, sun worship and the Sabbath to Sunday change

In 312 A.D., prior to his pivotal victory over his rival Maxentius at the Battle of Milvian Bridge,
Constantine became a “Christian” after claiming to see in broad daylight a vision of “a cross above
the sun” with these words emblazoned, “in hoc signo vinces” (by this sign conquer”). After defeating
his enemies and becoming Emperor of Rome, Constantine presided in full royal pomp over the
“First Council of Nicea” in 325 A.D.

A shrewd political genius, his scheme was to unite paganism and Christianity in an effort to strengthen
his disintegrating empire. Constantine knew that pagans throughout the empire worshiped the sun on
“the first day of the week,” and he discovered that many Christians and especially in Rome and
Alexandria also kept ‘Sunday’ because Christ rose from the dead on that day. So Constantine developed
a plan to unite both groups on the common platform of Sunday keeping. On March 7, 321 A.D., he
passed his famous national Sunday law:

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all
workshops be closed.” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History
of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

And another source: “Let all judges and townspeople and occupations of all trades rest on the
venerable day of the Sun [Sunday]; nevertheless, let those who are situated in the rural districts
freely and with full liberty attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it so frequently happens
that no other day may be so fitting for ploughing grains or trenching vineyards, lest at the time
the advantage of the moment granted by the provision of heaven may be lost.”
The Code of Justinian, Book 3, title 12, law 3.

Now a professed Christian, Constantine nevertheless remained a devout sun worshipper. “The sun was
universally celebrated as the invincible guide and protector of Constantine,” notes Edward Gibbon in
his classic Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, ch. xx, par. 3.

Constantine even printed coins which “bore on the one side the letters of the name of Christ, on the
other the figure of the sun god.” Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, lect. vi, par. 14.

Again, Constantine’s promotion of Sunday observance was part of his definite strategy to combine
paganism with Christianity: “The retention of the old pagan name of dies Solis, or ‘Sunday,’ for the
weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment
with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and
Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’” Stanley’s History of the Eastern Church, p. 184.

“The Jewish, the Samaritan, even the Christian, were to be fused and recast into one great system,
of which the sun was to be the central object of adoration.” Henry Milman, The History of
Christianity, Book 2, chap. 8, Vol. 22, p. 175.

In 330 A.D., Constantine moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople (modern Istanbul), thus
preparing the way for the Roman Catholic Popes to reign in Rome as the successors of Constantine.
As the Papal Church grew in power, it opposed Sabbath observance in favour of Sunday sacredness
and made the day change official in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363-364).

Constantine’s plan was successful and the result of his Sunday law was now fully accepted and
adopted by the Papal Church, and the Sabbath to Sunday change was complete. Some correctly
teach that Constantine only instituted the first Sunday law, but they very conveniently fail to
acknowledge why and the remainder of the story. The Council of Laodicea around A.D. 364
decreed 59 Canon laws. Canon XXIX: “Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath,
but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as
Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.” .

-

The Sabbath is also for the “stranger” who are Gentiles. (Exodus 20:10)
In “the new earth ... from one Sabbath to another, shall ALL FLESH
come to worship before me, saith the Lord.” (Isaiah 66:22-23)

no where in the bible is the Lords day called sunday,
no where in the bible is the Sabbath day done away with and changed.


Constantine did not get above truths from the bible.
So, you have nothing to the Trinity topic, you just saw the name Constantin like some kind of red flag to the bull and had to post your "anti-roman, anti-constantin, anti-sunday" agenda of the 7th day Adventist, right?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,525
189
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Is The Trinity True Or False - Is The Trinity Biblical

The Origin of the Trinity Doctrine

It was about a century after Tertullian when Arianism began causing so
many disputes that Constantine convened the first ecumenical Council
in Church history to settle them.

Arius was an elder in the Alexandrian Church in the early fourth century
that taught Christ truly is the begotten Son of God and why God is called
His Father to state the obvious. A real Father and Son in other words.

Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius, a deacon also from Alexandria.
His view was an early form of Trinitarianism where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
are said to be all the same one god but distinct from each other making it impossible
for them to be a real Father and Son.

His view was a further but deteriorating change to what Tertullian believed with
the Holy Spirit not yet claimed to be a literal being. That came later.

Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was created, but the Church burnt
what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely
rumoured that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him.

The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation
of events to hide the real truth at times. Consider the following for instance.

The view of Athanasius was highly influenced by Origen who was a Greek philosopher
and theologian who reinterpreted Christian doctrine through the philosophy of Neoplatonism.

His work was later condemned as unorthodox. Origen taught the doctrine of Purgatory,
transubstantiation, transmigration and reincarnation of the soul, the Holy Spirit was
a feminine force, Jesus was only a created being, there would be no physical resurrection,
the creation account in Genesis is a fictitious story and is known to have publicly castrated
himself based on Matthew 19.

Arius on the other hand was a pupil of Lucian of Antioch. Lucian was responsible
for the work that gave us what is known as the Textus Receptus which was completed
by Erasmus, and is what gave us the trusted New Testament of the KJV Bible.

These and other facts reveal that Athanasius was influenced by Greek philosophy
and that Arius probably taught Biblical truth despite mainstream history.

Some believe Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor but he was actually
a sun worshiper who was baptized on his deathbed. During his reign he had his eldest
son and his wife murdered. His belief at best was a blend of paganism and Christianity
for political purposes, and so he neither cared nor really understood this dispute but was
just eager to bring the controversy to a close and keep unity in his empire.

When the bishops gathered at Nicea on May 20, 325 AD to resolve the crisis, very few
shared Athanasius's view of Christ as most held a position midway between Athanasius
and Arius. The religious debates lasted two months before the Council rejected the minority
view of Arius, but having no alternative, Constantine approved the view of Athanasius,
which was also a minority view. And so the Church was left supporting a belief held by
only a minority of those attending.

The Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding
the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation
of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops,
with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”
— (1971 edition, Vol. 6, “Constantine,” p. 386)

Horrific religious persecution followed the decision made by Constantine who was
essentially a pagan Emperor who imposed an invented creed never preached by Jesus.

Constantine exiled those who refused to accept the creed as well as the bishops who
signed the creed but refused to join in condemnation of Arius. He also ordered all copies
of the Thalia to be burned, which was the book in which Arius expressed his teachings.
But several years later Constantine became lenient toward those he condemned and exiled
at the council and allowed them to return. In AD 335, they brought accusations against
Athanasius and so now Constantine had Athanasius banished! This was not about Biblical truth.

As a pagan sun worshipper, Constantine also enforced the first Sunday law just four years
earlier and hence played a major role in bringing two pagan traditions into the Church.

It was four hundred years after the cross when they formulated this creed that never existed
before hand, and so the Apostles and the early Church could never have taught it either.
See Encyclopedia Britannica and historical quotes.

Many of the Bishops who formulated the doctrine of the trinity were steeped in Greek
and Platonic philosophy, which influenced their religious views. In fact the language they
used in defining the trinity is taken directly from Platonic and Greek philosophy.

The Platonic term trias, meaning three, was Latinized as trinitas, which gave us the English
word trinity which is neither biblical nor Christian. As Bible scholars John McClintock and
James Strong (wrote the famous Strong's Concordance) explain, “Towards the end of the
1st century, and during the 2nd, many learned men came over both from Judaism and paganism
to Christianity. These brought with them into the Christian schools of theology their Platonic
ideas and phraseology.” — (Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature,
1891, Vol. 10, “Trinity,” p. 553)


So the trinity was not derived from scripture but was conceived in philosophy.
Greek philosophers were greatly influenced by Plato (427-347 BC) who was considered
the greatest of all Greek philosophers. Plato was ingrained with Trinitarian thought
and knew that all the ancient religions had triad deities, and so he desired to come up
with a better definition to define God above all the deities of Greek mythology.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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So, you have nothing to the Trinity topic,
you just saw the name Constantin like some kind of red flag
you claimed Constantines works [a trinity idea] where biblical,
just showing they are not from the bible at all.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,257
376
83
you claimed Constantines works [a trinity idea] where biblical,
just showing they are not from the bible at all.
Please, close your agenda prospect made by somebody who was afraid to say what denomination he is from (my guess is Jehovah Witness or SDA) and open your Bible. Trinity is there.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,525
189
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Please, close your agenda prospect made by somebody who was afraid to say what denomination he is from (my guess is Jehovah Witness or SDA) and open your Bible. Trinity is there.

the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses
is the closest thing to prove the trinity in the bible,

to bad this verse is a fraud, I wonder why?

If I had A denomination, and wanted to tell you about it
I would, but that has nothing to do about this thread title.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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the N.T. shows the Holy Spirit is the very The Power of God

15He hath made the earth (by his power), he hath established the world by his wisdom,
and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.

5I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, (by my great power)
and by my outstretched arm, (and have given it) (unto whom] it seemed meet unto me.

35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and (the power of the Highest) shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (the Son of God).

-- the Holy Spirit is the very power of God, not a third diety
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,257
376
83
the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses
is the closest thing to prove the trinity in the bible,

to bad this verse is a fraud, I wonder why?

If I had A denomination, and wanted to tell you about it
I would, but that has nothing to do about this thread title.
I never mentioned Comma Johanneum as the proof of Trinity. So your shot aims outside of the target.

"As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement."

Wikipedia

-- I am not native English speaker and I have never used the KJV as "my Bible"
 
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I don't appreciate it no way you all judging me and making a whole section bout me.

I said i was sorry I dated my father.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
119
63
the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses
is the closest thing to prove the trinity in the bible,

to bad this verse is a fraud, I wonder why?

If I had A denomination, and wanted to tell you about it
I would, but that has nothing to do about this thread title.
so how do you explain these verses?

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Acts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] He purchased with his own blood.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rev 22:12-13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif](Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 1:8-9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] but of the Son he says,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Your throne, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]O God[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Y[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ou have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for in Him dwells [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]all the fulness of the Godhead bodily[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif],[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:5-11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] being in the form of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the name which is above every name[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in heaven and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] on earth and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Lord[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], to the glory of God the Father. [/FONT]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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Originally Posted by prove-all
the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses
is the closest thing to prove the trinity in the bible,

to bad this verse is a fraud, I wonder why?

If I had A denomination, and wanted to tell you about it
I would, but that has nothing to do about this thread title.
so you ARE a Jehovahs Witness
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,525
189
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57
John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing
made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

Before the angels were created, before the universe or man were created,
God and the Word existed. Two Personages are revealed.

The Word in John 1 is translated from the Greek word Logos and means “Spokesman.”

Ephesians 3:9 says, “…God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”
That God is the Creator, but He created all things through the Word,
or Spokesman, the one who later became Jesus Christ.

Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
The Hebrew word translated ‘God’ is Elohim—a noun or name,
plural in form, but normally singular in grammatical usage.

It is the same sort of word as family, church, group—one family consisting
of two or more members—one church composed of many members
—one group of several persons.

“And God [Elohim] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
God said, “Let us”... after our likeness…”—more than one.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…”—more than one.
God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”—more than one!

After Adam rebelled against God, notice what Elohim said in Genesis 3:22:
“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us..

Here, God not only says “us,” He says “one of us”! One of the “us”
was God the Father and the other one of the “us” was the Word.
If there was just one deity, why would one deity say to Himself, “ONE of us”?
-

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”verse 14:

His life was worth more than all other human beings combined.

“The Word, then, is a Personage who was made flesh—begotten by God,
who through this later begettal became His Father, and the Word became his Son.

Yet at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet)
the Son of God. He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be
begotten as a human person. He was made God’s Son, through being begotten
or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary.

God and the Word, became now the Father and Son

When the Word was “made flesh,” He became the Son! At this point, He was
the begotten Son of God, not yet born. Luke 1:35: “…that holy thing which shall
be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” When the Word became the Son,
then obviously, God became the Father!

In Hebrews 7:3 it refers to the One who became Jesus Christ as being
“[w]ithout father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of
days, nor end of life.…” The Word lived in harmony with God for all eternity.

Neither of them had a beginning. verse 3:
“…but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”

When Jesus died, He was in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)
the second person of the Godhead—Emmanuel—God with us—God made human
flesh—was dead! that Christ had given up His immortal life inherent in divine glory
and been converted into human mortality for the purpose of death.

the same God who made the Word flesh also raised Jesus Christ from the dead!

After His death, Jesus Christ was resurrected as the firstborn Son of God
(Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15).Acts 13:30 says, “But God raised him from the dead.”
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,257
376
83
John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing
made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

Before the angels were created, before the universe or man were created,
God and the Word existed. Two Personages are revealed.

The Word in John 1 is translated from the Greek word Logos and means “Spokesman.”

Ephesians 3:9 says, “…God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”
That God is the Creator, but He created all things through the Word,
or Spokesman, the one who later became Jesus Christ.

Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
The Hebrew word translated ‘God’ is Elohim—a noun or name,
plural in form, but normally singular in grammatical usage.

It is the same sort of word as family, church, group—one family consisting
of two or more members—one church composed of many members
—one group of several persons.

“And God [Elohim] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
God said, “Let us”... after our likeness…”—more than one.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God?…”—more than one.
God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”—more than one!

After Adam rebelled against God, notice what Elohim said in Genesis 3:22:
“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us..

Here, God not only says “us,” He says “one of us”! One of the “us”
was God the Father and the other one of the “us” was the Word.
If there was just one deity, why would one deity say to Himself, “ONE of us”?
-

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”verse 14:

His life was worth more than all other human beings combined.

“The Word, then, is a Personage who was made flesh—begotten by God,
who through this later begettal became His Father, and the Word became his Son.

Yet at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet)
the Son of God. He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be
begotten as a human person. He was made God’s Son, through being begotten
or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary.

God and the Word, became now the Father and Son

When the Word was “made flesh,” He became the Son! At this point, He was
the begotten Son of God, not yet born. Luke 1:35: “…that holy thing which shall
be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” When the Word became the Son,
then obviously, God became the Father!

In Hebrews 7:3 it refers to the One who became Jesus Christ as being
“[w]ithout father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of
days, nor end of life.…” The Word lived in harmony with God for all eternity.

Neither of them had a beginning. verse 3:
“…but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”

When Jesus died, He was in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)
the second person of the Godhead—Emmanuel—God with us—God made human
flesh—was dead! that Christ had given up His immortal life inherent in divine glory
and been converted into human mortality for the purpose of death.

the same God who made the Word flesh also raised Jesus Christ from the dead!

After His death, Jesus Christ was resurrected as the firstborn Son of God
(Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15).Acts 13:30 says, “But God raised him from the dead.”

You really need to close your prospects, stop copy & paste thing and try to formulate your ideas shortly and simply and react to us.

Or else it is a monolog, not a dialog.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,525
189
63
57
so you ARE a Jehovahs Witness
If I had an earthly denomination with [commandments of men]which I do not belong,
why should I tell you? theres people here that goes after someones denomination,
and not even bother to adress the verses on subject matter given.

Now my Church? The Church is called the body of Christ. So we read:
y one Spirit are we all baptized into one body …” (i-Cor. 12:13).

the Church is called “Jerusalem above,” or “the heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb. 12:22-23)
Galatians 4:26: “But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is [the mother of us all].”
The spiritual mother—the Church—is commissioned to “feed the flock”
(iPet. 5:2) through the ministry which God has set in the Church

“[f]or the perfecting of the saints … for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man …” (Eph. 4:11-13).


“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with
every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they
lie in wait to deceive”
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
119
63
John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing
made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

Before the angels were created, before the universe or man were created,
God and the Word existed. Two Personages are revealed.
Yea and before the beginning of all things the Word already WAS

The Word in John 1 is translated from the Greek word Logos and means “Spokesman.”
Your Greek is astray. The word logos means Word.

Ephesians 3:9 says, “…God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”
That God is the Creator, but He created all things through the Word,
or Spokesman, the one who later became Jesus Christ.
God spoke and it was done. It was created by His Word. It was thus created by God Himself out of His own mouth. Thus the Word WAS God,


Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
The Hebrew word translated ‘God’ is Elohim—a noun or name,
plural in form, but normally singular in grammatical usage.
It only takes a singular verb when used of God, for God is one.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
119
63
If I had an earthly denomination with [commandments of men]which I do not belong,
why should I tell you? theres people here that goes after someones denomination,
and not even bother to adress the verses on subject matter given.

Now my Church? The Church is called the body of Christ. So we read:
y one Spirit are we all baptized into one body …” (i-Cor. 12:13).

the Church is called “Jerusalem above,” or “the heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb. 12:22-23)
Galatians 4:26: “But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is [the mother of us all].”
The spiritual mother—the Church—is commissioned to “feed the flock”
(iPet. 5:2) through the ministry which God has set in the Church

“[f]or the perfecting of the saints … for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man …” (Eph. 4:11-13).


“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with
every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they
lie in wait to deceive”


so you ARE a Jehovah's Witness or of some other similar cult
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
119
63
John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing
made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

Before the angels were created, before the universe or man were created,
God and the Word existed. Two Personages are revealed.
Not two personages, which suggests separation, but two persona.

Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
The Hebrew word translated ‘God’ is Elohim—a noun or name,
plural in form, but normally singular in grammatical usage.

It is the same sort of word as family, church, group—one family consisting
of two or more members—one church composed of many members
—one group of several persons.
It is not at all like those words. They contain separate persons who have differing opinions. They are composite nouns. But God is One, and is not a composite noun.The three members of the Godhead are always in total agreement. They may act distinctly but they are always in total agreement.

“And God [Elohim] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
God said, “Let us”... after our likeness…”—more than one.
God was speaking to the angels. He was joining them with Him, not as creators, but as interested parties.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…”—more than one.
God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”—more than one!
God and His Word were one, distinct but not separate. They were not 'more than one'
.
After Adam rebelled against God, notice what Elohim said in Genesis 3:22:
“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us..
He was speaking to the heavenly court,

Here, God not only says “us,” He says “one of us”! One of the “us”
was God the Father and the other one of the “us” was the Word.
If there was just one deity, why would one deity say to Himself, “ONE of us”?
-
The 'other' one was not the Word. Rather the others were angels. God and the Word were one.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”verse 14:

His life was worth more than all other human beings combined.
Yes because He alone was the eternally begotten of the Father. (The word was used for our sakes to indicate that they were of the same nature).

“The Word, then, is a Personage who was made flesh—begotten by God,
who through this later begettal became His Father, and the Word became his Son.
NOT a later begettal. Jesus was the Son from eternity and begotten for eternity. The Word WAS His Son, He did not become His Son.

Yet at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet) the Son of God.
He was the Son from eternity.

He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be begotten as a human person.
He was not a spirit divinity (shades of Jehovah's Witnesses), He was GOD. But He chose to become man,

He was made God’s Son, through being begotten or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary.
He was the Son from eternity. His birth through Mary made Him Mary's son

God and the Word, became now the Father and Son
He was always 'the Son'. eg John 8; I John 4 .13-15. The Father sent THE SON to be the Saviour of the world.

When the Word was “made flesh,” He became the Son!
No He always was the Son from eternity.

At this point, He was the begotten Son of God, not yet born. Luke 1:35: “…that holy thing which shall
be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” When the Word became the Son, then obviously, God became the Father!
The Father SENT the Son. How could He do that if He were not already the Father?,


In Hebrews 7:3 it refers to the One who became Jesus Christ as being “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life"
This means a human father.


.…” The Word lived in harmony with God for all eternity.
and the Son lived with the Father for all eternity.

Neither of them had a beginning. verse 3:
“…but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
So the Son was eternal?

When Jesus died, He was in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)
the second person of the Godhead—Emmanuel—God with us—God made human
flesh—was dead!
The Son was alive in Paradise(Luke 23.43)


that Christ had given up His immortal life inherent in divine glory and been converted into human mortality for the purpose of death.
His body was dead. His spirit lived on.

the same God who made the Word flesh also raised Jesus Christ from the dead!
Jesus also raised Himself from the dead (eg John 2,19)

After His death, Jesus Christ was resurrected as the firstborn Son of God (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15).
Because He was always the Son, firstborn before the whole of creation.

Acts 13:30 says, “But God raised him from the dead.”
God (the triune God) raised Him from the dead. {John 4.21, 26)
 

Dagallen

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2017
591
2
0
Please, close your agenda prospect made by somebody who was afraid to say what denomination he is from (my guess is Jehovah Witness or SDA) and open your Bible. Trinity is there.
If you got something to say to me about denomination, then do so because you know nothing about me at all.