The Trinity.

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CS1

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Look at the Hebrew.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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why should i care?
because, who cares if it's in the Latin, it's nowhere to be found in the Original Greek, and ERASMUS, made that claim about his creation of the Textus Receptus.

the Greek:
7
θεια οτι οι τρειϲ ει

ϲιν οι μαρτυρου

7 For they that testify are three
Perhaps you could read the section of the article (and convey your thoughts here) which starts out with this:

[quoting]

WHY DID ERASMUS ADD THE JOHANNINE COMMA TO HIS 3RD EDITION GREEK NEW TESTAMENT? There are two popular myths regarding Erasmus and 1 John 5:7 that are parroted by modernists, evangelicals, and even fundamentalists today who defend the modern versions against the KJV.

The first myth is that Erasmus promised to insert the verse if a Greek manuscript were produced. This is stated as follows by Bruce Metzger: “Erasmus promised that he would insert the Comma Johanneum, as it is called, in future editions if a single Greek manuscript could be found that contained the passage. At length such a copy was found--or made to order” (Metzger, The Text of the New Testament, 1st and 2nd editions).

The second myth is that Erasmus challenged Edward Lee to find a Greek manuscript that included 1 John 5:7. This originated with Erika Rummel in 1986 in her book Erasmus’ Annotations and was repeated by James White in 1995 (The Truth about the KJV-Only Controversy).


[more of that section at link supplied in my earlier post, originally posted by Nehemiah6 in his Post #480]
 
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Perhaps you could read the section of the article (and convey your thoughts here) which starts out with this:

[quoting]

WHY DID ERASMUS ADD THE JOHANNINE COMMA TO HIS 3RD EDITION GREEK NEW TESTAMENT? There are two popular myths regarding Erasmus and 1 John 5:7 that are parroted by modernists, evangelicals, and even fundamentalists today who defend the modern versions against the KJV.

The first myth is that Erasmus promised to insert the verse if a Greek manuscript were produced. This is stated as follows by Bruce Metzger: “Erasmus promised that he would insert the Comma Johanneum, as it is called, in future editions if a single Greek manuscript could be found that contained the passage. At length such a copy was found--or made to order” (Metzger, The Text of the New Testament, 1st and 2nd editions).

The second myth is that Erasmus challenged Edward Lee to find a Greek manuscript that included 1 John 5:7. This originated with Erika Rummel in 1986 in her book Erasmus’ Annotations and was repeated by James White in 1995 (The Truth about the KJV-Only Controversy).

[more of that section at link supplied in my earlier post, originally posted by Nehemiah6 in his Post #480]
you have ONE person making this claim against 100's of scholars and theologians.

the only reason Nehemiah would choose this, because, it fits his personal viewpoint.

i don't care, I know it's false.

there's a literal 99% ratio claiming the J. Comma is FALSE!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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why should i care?
because, who cares if it's in the Latin
Well, for one thing, weren't you the one that said (something to the effect) that the writer of the Latin Vulgate had access TO ALL OF THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS...?

Or did I mis-read you?
 
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Well, for one thing, weren't you the one that said (something to the effect) that the writer of the Latin Vulgate had access TO ALL OF THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS...?

Or did I mis-read you?
i did, and Jerome goes into great Detail about these Resources.
but, in HIS BIBLE, he [[[DID NOT]]] include the J. COMMA.

there's a Reason why he did not.
Because, IT DOES NOT EXIST in the Original Greek he had access to.

and Jerome's Job was to translate the Hebrew, Aramaic, and the Greek................not Cyprian's Personal LATIN Opinion!

which, by Jerome, NOT ADDING Cyprian's Personal Opinion, means, Jerome, knew it was FALSE!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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there's a literal 99% ratio claiming the J. Comma is FALSE!
Here's what Dr David Hocking says (his article can be found at BlueLetterBible):



[quoting Hocking... his comments are also in the brackets]

"[...] But anyway, listen to Nestle's admission.

It was not until 1904 that a Greek text lacking 1 John 5:7 was widely distributed and accepted by professors of the Greek New Testament. [Boy, this is exactly the opposite of what those footnotes are telling you. Isn't that interesting?] Eventually the Nestle text became the foundation for all current English translations, including New American Standard, Revised Standard, Good News Bible, New International, etc., etc.… The editors, according to Kenyon the great Greek scholar said, 'Only seventeen manuscripts from 8000 extant manuscripts left out 1 John 5:7.' [Bingo!] To put it in percentages, the actual amount of the manuscripts that leave it out, especially before the tenth century, represent less than one percent of the manuscripts.

[end quoting from D. Hocking's article]
 
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Here's what Dr David Hocking says (his article can be found at BlueLetterBible):

[quoting Hocking... his comments are also in the brackets]

"[...] But anyway, listen to Nestle's admission.

It was not until 1904 that a Greek text lacking 1 John 5:7 was widely distributed and accepted by professors of the Greek New Testament. [Boy, this is exactly the opposite of what those footnotes are telling you. Isn't that interesting?] Eventually the Nestle text became the foundation for all current English translations, including New American Standard, Revised Standard, Good News Bible, New International, etc., etc.… The editors, according to Kenyon the great Greek scholar said, 'Only seventeen manuscripts from 8000 extant manuscripts left out 1 John 5:7.' [Bingo!] To put it in percentages, the actual amount of the manuscripts that leave it out, especially before the tenth century, represent less than one percent of the manuscripts.

[end quoting from D. Hocking's article]
why do i care?

Jerome was there and we have his Bible.
if the J. COMMA was fact, Jerome, would have added it.
but he did not because it never existed in the Original Greek.



you are taking the opinion of someone almost 1,700 years LATER, when we have the Proof and Person, that was THERE when HE TRANSLATED the Bible.


basically, you're calling Jerome a LIAR.


and who do you think you are to do that?
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Jesus IS God Almighty. And He says Himself that HE comes to live with the believer.

John 14:21

Not some third party.
The Son is not the Father as you seem to teach here.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Jerome was there and we have his Bible.
if the J. COMMA was fact, Jerome, would have added it.
but he did not because it never existed in the Original Greek.
That's not what the following seems to be saying (which I'd put in my Post #578):

[Post #578 again...]

I wonder what the writer of that article (posted by Neh6--Post #480) meant by the following:

[quoting]

1 John 5:7 was in the old Latin that was used by Bible believers in Europe. Dr. Frederick Nolan (1784-1864) spent 28 years tracing the history of the European Italic or Old Latin version and in 1815 published his findings in An Inquiry into the Integrity of the Greek Vulgate or Received Text of the New Testament, in which the Greek manuscripts are newly classed, the integrity of the Authorised Text vindicated, and the various readings traced to their origin. Nolan believed that the old Latin got its name Italic from the churches in northern Italy that remained separated from Rome and that this text was maintained by separatist Waldensian believers. He concluded that 1 John 5:7 “was adopted in the version which prevailed in the Latin Church, previously to the introduction of the modern Vulgate” (Nolan, Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, pp. xvii, xviii).

1 John 5:7 was in the Latin “vulgate” that had a wide influence throughout the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church used it, but so did many non-Catholic believers. Bruce Metzger observes that the oldest manuscript of the Jerome vulgate, Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 546), does not include the Johannine Comma; but this fact is overwhelmed by other evidence. For one, we have seen that Jerome himself believed 1 John 5:7 was genuine Scripture and testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts. Second, 1 John 5:7 is found in the vast majority of extant Latin manuscripts, 49 out of every 50, according to Scrivener. Third, 1 John 5:7 is found in many of the most ancient Latin manuscripts, such as Ulmensis (c. 850) and Toletanus (988). The Johannine Comma is found “in twenty-nine of the fairest, oldest, and most correct of extant Vulgate manuscripts” (Maynard, A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8, p. 343).

[end quoting]
 
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That's not what the following seems to be saying (which I'd put in my Post #578):

[Post #578 again...]

I wonder what the writer of that article (posted by Neh6--Post #480) meant by the following:

[quoting]

1 John 5:7 was in the old Latin that was used by Bible believers in Europe. Dr. Frederick Nolan (1784-1864) spent 28 years tracing the history of the European Italic or Old Latin version and in 1815 published his findings in An Inquiry into the Integrity of the Greek Vulgate or Received Text of the New Testament, in which the Greek manuscripts are newly classed, the integrity of the Authorised Text vindicated, and the various readings traced to their origin. Nolan believed that the old Latin got its name Italic from the churches in northern Italy that remained separated from Rome and that this text was maintained by separatist Waldensian believers. He concluded that 1 John 5:7 “was adopted in the version which prevailed in the Latin Church, previously to the introduction of the modern Vulgate” (Nolan, Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, pp. xvii, xviii).

1 John 5:7 was in the Latin “vulgate” that had a wide influence throughout the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church used it, but so did many non-Catholic believers. Bruce Metzger observes that the oldest manuscript of the Jerome vulgate, Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 546), does not include the Johannine Comma; but this fact is overwhelmed by other evidence. For one, we have seen that Jerome himself believed 1 John 5:7 was genuine Scripture and testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts. Second, 1 John 5:7 is found in the vast majority of extant Latin manuscripts, 49 out of every 50, according to Scrivener. Third, 1 John 5:7 is found in many of the most ancient Latin manuscripts, such as Ulmensis (c. 850) and Toletanus (988). The Johannine Comma is found “in twenty-nine of the fairest, oldest, and most correct of extant Vulgate manuscripts” (Maynard, A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8, p. 343).

[end quoting]
I showed you the Original Greek that we have [3rd Century] and it DOES NOT include the J. Comma.

so, show me this FAKE Greek Copy that does, but OLDER than 3rd Century.

if Dr. Frederick Nolan is correct, where is this GREEK Copy......that.......DOES NOT nor EVER has Existed?
 
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The Son is not the Father as you seem to teach here.
Well, I was saying Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Just as the verses I posted reveal.

BUT, ... Isaiah actually does say Jesus is the Father.

"6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6

None of that is hard to understand when you understand that God is ONE individual person, just as the Bible teaches very sufficiently.
 
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I showed you the Original Greek that we have [3rd Century] and it DOES NOT include the J. Comma.

so, show me this FAKE Greek Copy that does, but OLDER than 3rd Century.

if Dr. Frederick Nolan is correct, where is this GREEK Copy......that.......DOES NOT nor EVER has Existed?
so, it FACTUALLY turns out that Dr. Frederick Nolan NEVER physically SAW any DOCUMENTS AT ALL...He literally, within his own INSANE MENTALITY, decided, this is what happened.


and YOU wasted my time for 3 pages now over someone's opinion, who NEVER, saw Proof himself?

And YOU believe SOMEONE, who NEVER SAW these Documents, it's just his OPINION?

Wow, the ILLOGIC, is seriously REAL here!!
 
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no wonder so many in this thread can't understand the Bible, they take opinions and build them into facts.

and the rain came and swept the sandy foundations AWAY..................
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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my thoughts are, if it was legit, and not the OPINION of Cyprian, JEROME, would have included it in the Original Vulgate.
Where do you think the Douay-Rheims Bible got 1 John 5:7 other than from the Vulgate? And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
VULGATE
Quoniam tres sunt, qui testimonium dant in caelo : Pater, Verbum, et Spiritus Sanctus : et hi tres unum sunt.
 
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Where do you think the Douay-Rheims Bible got 1 John 5:7 other than from the Vulgate? And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Quoniam tres sunt, qui testimonium dant in caelo : Pater, Verbum, et Spiritus Sanctus : et hi tres unum sunt.
from Cyprian
 
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Cyprian is not Jerome. See my complete post.
i already posted Jerome's Copy. know how to READ?

7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

And there are Three who give testimony



Clearly you do not, since, you think Dr. Frederick Nolan actually saw a Copy, when it says he only saw the Textus Receptus, that's 1,300 years later from Cyprian.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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so, it FACTUALLY turns out that Dr. Frederick Nolan NEVER physically SAW any DOCUMENTS AT ALL...He literally, within his own INSANE MENTALITY, decided, this is what happened.
The second section I posted I don't think was written by "Nolan" (not sure), which says,

[quoting]

1 John 5:7 was in the Latin “vulgate” that had a wide influence throughout the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church used it, but so did many non-Catholic believers. Bruce Metzger observes that the oldest manuscript of the Jerome vulgate, Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 546), does not include the Johannine Comma; but this fact is overwhelmed by other evidence. For one, we have seen that Jerome himself believed 1 John 5:7 was genuine Scripture and testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts. Second, 1 John 5:7 is found in the vast majority of extant Latin manuscripts, 49 out of every 50, according to Scrivener. Third, 1 John 5:7 is found in many of the most ancient Latin manuscripts, such as Ulmensis (c. 850) and Toletanus (988). The Johannine Comma is found “in twenty-nine of the fairest, oldest, and most correct of extant Vulgate manuscripts” (Maynard, A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8, p. 343).

[end quoting; bold, underline and color emphasis mine]


Now, why would this writer say (of Jerome) that he "testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts," if, as you say, Jerome had access to ALL THE MANUSCRIPTS IN EXISTANCE at the time?



[perhaps elsewhere in this writer's paper / book (?) they explain this statement further (about Jerome), coz the writer says "we have seen that..."?? IOW, it seems not everyone commenting on this has the full picture?]
 
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Silly question. Go to the Douay-Rheims/Latin Vulgate official Catholic Bible from which I have quoted. https://www.drbo.org/lvb/chapter/69005.htm.
let's cut to the Chase here.
because, all you have is the ability to try to manipulate the reader.

here's the earliest Greek Copy on file:
the Greek:
7
θεια οτι οι τρειϲ ει

ϲιν οι μαρτυρου

7 For they that testify are three


show me one earlier with the J. Comma and this is settled!

if you can't, then why waste YOUR TIME?