The Trinity

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

Originally Posted by mark54

If you read my latest coment to Crossfire, I wrote that scripture does not state Christ entered Heaven in the same state/form he was in when he left this earth, so I have no definitive knowledge as to exactly how he entered Heavern. If others have first hand knowledge of this, they are able to share it in this thread.

I stick to what I know according to scripture
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God(my quesrtion)

Originally Posted by JLHillsSr

Rev 4:1 KJV - After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 KJV - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.

Rev 5:6 KJV - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What more do you need???(your response)

I assume from your response to my question you believe Christ entered Heaven after his ascention in the form of a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes

Charlamane · Feb 13, 2013

Bowman said:

I'm afraid I don't agree that the three men that visited Abraham is a definitive example of the Trinity. First of all, all three of these men were not all necessarily referred to by Abraham as 'Lord'. Abraham appeared to speak to only one of them; it doesn't say he addressed all three or even which one he addressed. It also does not say that these three individuals definitely were the 'Trinity'. That assumption must be applied through a previously conceived notion that the Trinity always goes every together. Additionally, this notion isn't even stated anywhere in the scriptures anyway. When Jesus came to earth as an incarnated human being, obviously the Holy Spirit and the Father were not right there with Him, not constantly, anyway, not in the way we assume they're together in heaven. Jesus went into the hills to pray to the Father, and the Holy Spirit ascended out of heaven upon Jesus like a dove. Now, even if the Holy Spirit joined Jesus at that point, He obviously wasn't with Jesus until that point. Jesus also left after the resurrection so that the Holy Spirit could come to his disciples. Therefore, the Holy Spirit left Jesus in heaven to come to His people on earth. And even if the Father and the Holy Spirit were always with Jesus while on earth (in a manner of speaking), again, the assumption that the three that visited Abraham were definitely the Trinity is again, merely an assumption. It just plain doesn't say so. It says "three men", in fact. If we took that literally, we'd assume these were three literal human men that visited Abraham. We assume so much when we interpret scriptures; which causes us to (perhaps) form inappropriate conclusions that prevent us finding more accurate answers. Again, the only real proof of even One of these three identities (that visit Abraham) comes from what Jesus said in John 8:56. "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

Oh, and by the way, scripture does say that no man can look upon God and live. Where does that leave us?

Abiding · Feb 13, 2013

Gee thanks Charlemane

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

peacefulbeliever said:

Interesting! You have a similar response as the pharisees.
What He is trying to say, and the pharisees did not understand is that if you understand and accept what is happening to and within that Holy Thing, (Luke 1:35), i.e. eat thereof, then and only then will you have eternal life.

The Body was given by the Father;
Luk 1:35 KJV - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Hbr 10:5 KJV - Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The Body was for Jehovah, not the humanity.

Psa 22:9 KJV - (humanity) But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 KJV - (Jehovah) I was cast upon thee from the womb: (humanity) thou [art] my God from my mother's belly.

Jhn 1:14 KJV - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John was a fisherman. The word "make" means: To attach a line to something so that it will not move. Made, therefor means that He was bound to the Body.

And, finally, that the Body was an acceptable sacrifice to the Father, and that the sins of man were poured into that Body (temple) and was resurrected by the Holy Spirit.

Hbr 10:10 KJV - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
1Ti 3:16 KJV - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rom 6:4 KJV - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Cr 15:15 KJV - Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God (the Father) that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

And Jehovah raised up Jesus:

Rom 8:11 KJV - But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Crazy4GODword · Feb 13, 2013

@Crazy4GODword, do you even know what the trinity means?

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

mark54 said:

Jhn 1:29 KJV - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jhn 1:36 KJV - And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Rev 4:2 KJV - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.

The one on the throne is the Father, not Jesus, not Jehovah. THE FATHER.
The Lamb is Jehovah in the Body, i.e. Christ, just as he had been slain. Exactly as he was when taken from the cross.

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

JLHillsSr said:

I agree in the instance you are referring to the Father sat on the throne, however:

To him who overcomes I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne
Rev3:21

cfultz3 · Feb 13, 2013

Crazy4GODword said:

well, do ya? huh? huh? well do ya, do ya?

Crazy4GODword · Feb 13, 2013

cfultz3 said:

You need to break the ice, loose the dogs on him, he wont speak inless he gets some...

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

mark54 said:

Not until all things are put under his feet.

1Cr 15:24 KJV - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 KJV - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 KJV - The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 13, 2013

JLHillsSr said:

Interesting! You have a similar response as the pharisees.
What He is trying to say, and the pharisees did not understand is that if you understand and accept what is happening to and within that Holy Thing, (Luke 1:35), i.e. eat thereof, then and only then will you have eternal life.

The Body was given by the Father;
Luk 1:35 KJV - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Hbr 10:5 KJV - Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The Body was for Jehovah, not the humanity.

Psa 22:9 KJV - (humanity) But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 KJV - (Jehovah) I was cast upon thee from the womb: (humanity) thou [art] my God from my mother's belly.

Jhn 1:14 KJV - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John was a fisherman. The word "make" means: To attach a line to something so that it will not move. Made, therefor means that He was bound to the Body.

And, finally, that the Body was an acceptable sacrifice to the Father, and that the sins of man were poured into that Body (temple) and was resurrected by the Holy Spirit.

Hbr 10:10 KJV - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
1Ti 3:16 KJV - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rom 6:4 KJV - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Cr 15:15 KJV - Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God (the Father) that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

And Jehovah raised up Jesus:

Rom 8:11 KJV - But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I know all of the above - I guess I was wondering just why it was said in response to my post. I know that Jesus Christ died and shed his blood for the remission of sin and I know that God raised him from the dead. . . .sheesh.

BTW, I take communion and I know what the body and blood, i.e. the bread and the wine, represent.

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

JLHillsSr said:

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [SUP]25[/SUP]For he(Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Verse28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

So you believe that while Christ reigns(which is now) the verse I quoted does not apply, in relation to him sitting down with his Father on His throne. But when the son hands the kingdom over to the father and is made subject to Him, at that time he will sit on the throne

Interesting thoughts

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

mark54 said:

Act 7:55 KJV - But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 KJV - And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

The throne is not his yet. Not until after chapters 4 and 5 of Revelation.

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

JLHillsSr said:

So as I said. Christ reigns now, but does not sit on the throne with the Father, but when he hands the kingdom over to the Father and is made subject to Him, then he will-at that time sit on the throne in your opinion
As I said. Interesting thoughts

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

mark54 said:

In my opinion, most definitely!!

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

JLHillsSr said:

Of that I have no doubt!

Elin · Feb 13, 2013

Berean said:

Can you please give a simple straightforward exegesis of Mark 2:5-11 which states,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”[SUP]6 [/SUP]But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?”[SUP]8 [/SUP]Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, *said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk’?[SUP]10 [/SUP]But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He *said to the paralytic,[SUP]11 [/SUP]“I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.” This passage appears simple and easy to understand. They proclaim only God has the authority to forgive sins and Jesus continues their thoughts. The Son of Man, who was Jesus, forgave sins which is only something God can do. Can you please exegete this text and help us understand what Jesus is saying?

Berean,

I think perhaps you have mistaken my question to Mark as unbelief.

It is not that, but part of an argumentative demonstration.

mark54 · Feb 13, 2013

Elin said:

If only you knew how much of a chuckle your demonstration gave me Elin

Elin · Feb 13, 2013

mark54 said:

Elin said:

So once again you cannot respond to the question

Nor can you respond to the question:

Is Jesus God?

See 4) above.

JLHillsSr · Feb 13, 2013

peacefulbeliever said:

It is this statement that I find disturbing:

Though our bodies are corruptible, we have to have faith, as did Jesus, that these bodies will be made incorruptible by the Holy Spirit. This is why we must believe that the Body of Christ, being filled with the sins of the world, is in Heaven and is in the same condition that it was when it went into the sepulcher and sealed with the stone.

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