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I shake my head, I really do
So that is your get out of jail card is it, so you do not have to answer the question. Boy oh boy how desperate were you not to answer
See the thing is Zone, you are OK discussing pure theology, of some subjects but you cannot answer the plain reality that ministers will not preach from their pulpits(or they won't in the uk and I doubt many do in the us either) what you believe is acceptable and unacceptable belief as to who Christ is unto salvation and the consequences of getting it wrong
Can you face this subject and truly give your opinion on it? No you cannot
but I'll tell you something, only a head theologist could refuse to respond to that truth, anyone with truly heartfelt conviction would have to respond, not prevaricate as you do just trying to play with words.
Truth is, you are plainly not bothered in the slighhtest that miniasters will not plainly state from the pulpit what to you is salvational belief concerning who Christ must be believed to be and the consequences of getting it wrong
Andv this is why you and others make the statements here you do, although the ministers from the pulpits(in the UK I know of) will not make them, and at least 90% of people in church would consider ridiculoius.
Strange people come on these sites, with weird views indeed, they truly are trapped in their world of scholars/theologians and the little grey cells
As I know you will not properly address the question, just porevaricate I'm putting you on ignore immediately. There is just no point to this
Clearly you ain't bothered if the flock here what to you is the truth and the result of getting it wrong, but heck, this is cyberspace after all
So that is your get out of jail card is it, so you do not have to answer the question. Boy oh boy how desperate were you not to answer
See the thing is Zone, you are OK discussing pure theology, of some subjects but you cannot answer the plain reality that ministers will not preach from their pulpits(or they won't in the uk and I doubt many do in the us either) what you believe is acceptable and unacceptable belief as to who Christ is unto salvation and the consequences of getting it wrong
Can you face this subject and truly give your opinion on it? No you cannot
but I'll tell you something, only a head theologist could refuse to respond to that truth, anyone with truly heartfelt conviction would have to respond, not prevaricate as you do just trying to play with words.
Truth is, you are plainly not bothered in the slighhtest that miniasters will not plainly state from the pulpit what to you is salvational belief concerning who Christ must be believed to be and the consequences of getting it wrong
Andv this is why you and others make the statements here you do, although the ministers from the pulpits(in the UK I know of) will not make them, and at least 90% of people in church would consider ridiculoius.
Strange people come on these sites, with weird views indeed, they truly are trapped in their world of scholars/theologians and the little grey cells
As I know you will not properly address the question, just porevaricate I'm putting you on ignore immediately. There is just no point to this
Clearly you ain't bothered if the flock here what to you is the truth and the result of getting it wrong, but heck, this is cyberspace after all
Cfultz please understand, , this is the internet. People come with their cherished beliefs that give vthem solace. They believe and take comfort in the fact they believe their convictions are undoubtledly true
The hard nosed scholar asnd theologian would not change their views for anything. They have invested far too much time and energy in reding vastly of scholars and theololgians. And that is therir problem, fopr how many of them in their hearts asked the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth. But there may be one or two who wonder if they really must believe Christ is God himself unto salvation, who knows
Someone said the people influenced by a thread do not take part in it, those who do are already entrenched in their positions. I am not trying to change the mind of anyone actually partaking in this thread
However, I will, as long as I can show, that peopole are simply making extra biblical demands for salvation, and refusing to accept the belief Christ himself laid down as to who he must be believed ot be to inherit eternal life
The hard nosed scholar asnd theologian would not change their views for anything. They have invested far too much time and energy in reding vastly of scholars and theololgians. And that is therir problem, fopr how many of them in their hearts asked the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth. But there may be one or two who wonder if they really must believe Christ is God himself unto salvation, who knows
Someone said the people influenced by a thread do not take part in it, those who do are already entrenched in their positions. I am not trying to change the mind of anyone actually partaking in this thread
However, I will, as long as I can show, that peopole are simply making extra biblical demands for salvation, and refusing to accept the belief Christ himself laid down as to who he must be believed ot be to inherit eternal life
Abiding I have given you the plainest of scripture where Christ states only the Father is the one true God
If you wish to dispute that, please give me plain scripture that states Christ is the one true God
I will give you plain scripture as to the required belif unto salvation of who Christ is:
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)
1John4:15
Now please give me plain scripture to back up your belief that states:
A person must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation
Only fair
If you wish to dispute that, please give me plain scripture that states Christ is the one true God
I will give you plain scripture as to the required belif unto salvation of who Christ is:
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)
1John4:15
Now please give me plain scripture to back up your belief that states:
A person must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation
Only fair
Hi Abiding. . .Alpha and Omega is a Hebraism to designate "the whole of anything from the beginning to the end" [Bullinger]
Both God and Jesus Christ are the "Alpha and Omega" in their own respective ways. . .so the title can apply to both. God, the Almighty, is truly the beginning "in the beginning" and the end of all things "that God may be all in all" while Jesus Christ is the beginning and the end being the firstborn from the dead, the Author and Finisher of faith and the Man by whom God will judge the world, etc.
Both God and Jesus Christ are the "Alpha and Omega" in their own respective ways. . .so the title can apply to both. God, the Almighty, is truly the beginning "in the beginning" and the end of all things "that God may be all in all" while Jesus Christ is the beginning and the end being the firstborn from the dead, the Author and Finisher of faith and the Man by whom God will judge the world, etc.
Hopespring
I said I would reply to the following
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, AND of Jesus our Lord,[SUP]2
[/SUP]
I don't think we have any contention in the above
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in very nature[SUP][a][/SUP] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[SUP][b][/SUP] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
[SUP]9 [/SUP]CHRIST has the nature of his Father, this has not been disputed by me. I have said, I believe the spirit of God's prescence dwells in Christ, and he does indeed have the nature of the Father
What was the bait used to tempt Eve to eat the apple?
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:5
But though Christ had the nature of the Father he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped. He did not rise to such a bait, but
humbled himself, taking on the nature of a servant
Being made in human likeness
Hwe humbled himself and became obediant unto death
Even death on a cross
What was the result of this?
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER
I said I would reply to the following
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, AND of Jesus our Lord,[SUP]2
[/SUP]
I don't think we have any contention in the above
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in very nature[SUP][a][/SUP] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[SUP][b][/SUP] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
[SUP]9 [/SUP]CHRIST has the nature of his Father, this has not been disputed by me. I have said, I believe the spirit of God's prescence dwells in Christ, and he does indeed have the nature of the Father
What was the bait used to tempt Eve to eat the apple?
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:5
But though Christ had the nature of the Father he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped. He did not rise to such a bait, but
humbled himself, taking on the nature of a servant
Being made in human likeness
Hwe humbled himself and became obediant unto death
Even death on a cross
What was the result of this?
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER
M
[h=3]Matthew 11:8 & 9[/h][SUP]8 [/SUP]If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings’ palaces. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. ( John the Baptist)
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him (Jesus) in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
God Bless,
Mercy
I didn't deny that God and Jesus share the title Alpha and Omega. Alpha and Omega - the beginning and the end of the Greek alphabet, the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet - so synonymous in meaning . . .both share the title, as I have already stated.
Isaiah 44:6b I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6b I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Let us all ponder to the scriptures; Understand this parable well about the sewer and the seeds. The ones that fell on good ground reaped plentifull. This ground received full, the FATHER, SON and the HOLY SPIRIT inorder to produce plentifiull at all times. Because emptying themselve to the way of this world and it's things, the way of GOD in CHRIST and the Trinity manifested in them full time. The other grounds struggle inbetween the way of this world and the way of the kingdom of GOD and suffer lost or poverty. That is why, in the King James version. JESUS wept after teaching this parable. Because many struggle and only a few achieved. The ground represents the people of this world, like you and me. The seed is the teaching of the kingdom of GOD that JESUS represents, written in the Gospel. Which ground do we represent to see the full manifestation of the FATHER, SON and the HOLY SPIRIT to excel. JESUS also went on to say after a parable; 'Many are called but only a few are chosen.' JESUS also went on to say; 'My FATHER is always working.' So we must fiully understand the scripture, by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT our Teacher that manifestation must be full time in order to save people.
In the beginning was the Word(Christ), and the Word was with(besides) God, and the Word(itself) was God(God's word). [SUP]2 [/SUP]He(Christ) was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
1Cor8:6
Paul confirms in the above, only the Father is the one true God
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor,[SUP][b][/SUP] Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Christ can be referrd to as Mighty God he is referred in the NT as 'Our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Titus2:13
Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’[SUP][e][/SUP]? [SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—[SUP]36 [/SUP]what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? [SUP]37 [/SUP]
Christ is our Mighty God of the new Covenant, and in this sense is the Everlasting Father of it. But why do you bring this text up? You do not believe Christ is actually God the Father do you?
Christ has been given the title God by the Father:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]f[/SUP][SUP]]
[/SUP][SUP]There is only ONE TRUE GOD(John17:3) The Father
But what does Paul say about Abraham in terms of Father:
[/SUP]So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Do we consider Abraham God too according to him being our Father in reference to the covenant of faith?
Abraham can be called the Father of the covenant of faith, and Christ is the everlasting Father of the new covenant
Now I have responded, please no more scripture quoting. I am only interested in one thing, salvational belief, not a scripture quoting contest of 'Is Jesus God'
And I never gave you any scriptures to respond to!
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
1Cor8:6
Paul confirms in the above, only the Father is the one true God
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor,[SUP][b][/SUP] Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Christ can be referrd to as Mighty God he is referred in the NT as 'Our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Titus2:13
Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’[SUP][e][/SUP]? [SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—[SUP]36 [/SUP]what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? [SUP]37 [/SUP]
Christ is our Mighty God of the new Covenant, and in this sense is the Everlasting Father of it. But why do you bring this text up? You do not believe Christ is actually God the Father do you?
Christ has been given the title God by the Father:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]f[/SUP][SUP]]
[/SUP][SUP]There is only ONE TRUE GOD(John17:3) The Father
But what does Paul say about Abraham in terms of Father:
[/SUP]So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Do we consider Abraham God too according to him being our Father in reference to the covenant of faith?
Abraham can be called the Father of the covenant of faith, and Christ is the everlasting Father of the new covenant
Now I have responded, please no more scripture quoting. I am only interested in one thing, salvational belief, not a scripture quoting contest of 'Is Jesus God'
And I never gave you any scriptures to respond to!
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