The Trinity

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May 18, 2010
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actually I'm not exactly sure what theological exorcise is, however I'm familiar with the term meditation on the scriptures, y'know let them really sink in, besides that the laws are already written on our hearts, am I wrong to compare one scripture to another or to combine a set of scriptures proving my point, sorry, This is only the understanding and wisdom obtained from my days of biblical research and readings and studies, and questions asked and questions answered and experiences. I know what I believe is true, because I am affirmed by what it says in the Holy Bible.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Are you aware that the Assemblies do believe in the Trinity also? (Was one myself for a time)
I know that now, but, although I went to an AOG church for roughly twenty years, never once was it stated fom the pulpit, Christ is God Himself, let alone saying salvation hinged on believing it
Because of the discussions I have had on the internet concerning this subject, I rang a friend who went to the same church for over ten years, he confirmed, it was never stated from the pulpit Christ is God Himself
That church was one of the three largest AOG Pentecostal churches in England and the minister wrote books and often went to preach in the states.

And so, I naturally grew up simply believing Christ was the son of God
I have also been to a variety of other churches, at which no minister stood in the pulpit and stated Christ is God Himself.
Four yerars ago at the tender age of fifty I went onto A CHRISTIAN INTERNET WEBSITE and was shocked to the core to hear people state you have to believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, I could not believe it, not only because I had never heard such a thing, but also BECAUSE THE BIBLE DOES NOT DEMAND IT
That is the truth
 
Jan 11, 2013
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actually I'm not exactly sure what theological exorcise is, however I'm familiar with the term meditation on the scriptures, y'know let them really sink in, besides that the laws are already written on our hearts, am I wrong to compare one scripture to another or to combine a set of scriptures proving my point, sorry, This is only the understanding and wisdom obtained from my days of biblical research and readings and studies, and questions asked and questions answered and experiences. I know what I believe is true, because I am affirmed by what it says in the Holy Bible.
I would say the majority of Christians do not consider the law is written on their hearts so we agree there, we know it is, so I hope you may agree that the Same Spirit who convicted you of that convicted me too.

But to become a Christian is a simple affair, not a theological exercise, if anyone simple gets on their knees repents of their sin asks Chriust into their life as lord and Saviour, believing him to be the Son of God that's it they are saved, little theology involved, it is the heart that counts and simple faith
 
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Nebo54

Guest
@Mark54

Maybe you have to pray and to ask God so He can discover in you heart who He is. I'm sure He will give you answers about Trinity. Just let Holy Spirit to come to you and give you what you are searching for

God Bless You
 
Jan 11, 2013
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@Mark54

Maybe you have to pray and to ask God so He can discover in you heart who He is. I'm sure He will give you answers about Trinity. Just let Holy Spirit to come to you and give you what you are searching for

God Bless You
I appreciate the kind way you have spoken, but I do think, if it is possible for people on here to actually stop and reflect, they should do some deep thinking. Because you can't get away from this fact, if this doctrine that you all seem to so passionately believe in is so vital to Christianity, then the Trinitarian ministers are woiefully and abysmally letting down their flock. And if you people cannot see that you have problems, you must be blinded to the very stark and plain reality. I would imagine a few of you will pause and think on this, but sadly, for many I realise that would not be possible
For myself, I believe the mnisters understand the spiritual reality, but few on websites such as this will, for these websirtes are not reflective of the average person who sits in a church pew
 
May 18, 2010
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well I do agree there, but Christ also created us, you said you have never heard it stated that Jesus is God, well John 1:1 should have an importance because in it, it states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So to me that is very signifying that the Word was in fact God.
And I became aware also that for a man to say He is the Son of God, He is claiming to be equal with God,
hence,

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
 
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Nebo54

Guest
I appreciate the kind way you have spoken, but I do think, if it is possible for people on here to actually stop and reflect, they should do some deep thinking. Because you can't get away from this fact, if this doctrine that you all seem to so passionately believe in is so vital to Christianity, then the Trinitarian ministers are woiefully and abysmally letting down their flock. And if you people cannot see that you have problems, you must be blinded to the very stark and plain reality. I would imagine a few of you will pause and think on this, but sadly, for many I realise that would not be possible
For myself, I believe the mnisters understand the spiritual reality, but few on websites such as this will, for these websirtes are not reflective of the average person who sits in a church pew
I understand you. We can't understand God's power. We are all sinners who deserve to be punished. Our logic is very very very very ... small compared with Lord thoughts. So If we don't have Holy Spirit inside us we can't understand scriptures.

I think we should ask Jesus ,our God , for everything and I'm sure He will give us answers through Holy Spirit. He has done this with me and I'm sure He will do this with anyone

God Bless you
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Maranatha


I have discussed this subject on another website for a long time. I would be suprised if you could bring much scripture(if any) before me that I have not previously discussed. I know exactly what happens when it is all produced, and to be honest I have by and large stopped scripture quoting contests.
Now I am just being honest here, I know John 1:1 is obviously a strong verse of scripture for you all, but I am not trying to offend you but I, not you would have the plainest of scripture on my side, yours would on the whole require theological exercise. That is just a fact.
BTW yesterday I gave my thoughts on John1:1 on this thread
So I won't give you scruipture, just some facts:

Neither Christ, Paul, Peter, James or John commanded anyone to believe Christ was God Himself, let alone unto salvation
Why in their letters did none of those Apostels plainly demand and insist a person believes Christ is God Himself unto salvation? We are after all speaking of what to you is the core of the faith and salvational belief as to who a person must believe Christ to be to uinherit eternal life
There can only be two reasons
Firstly, they simply did not have the spiritual insight you do today, or those did who lived after them
Secondly, they woefully failed the churches they wrote to by not plainly informing them of the belief on which eternal life hinged, you choose which is correct
Now I don't mean you personally but I am becoming utterly convinced that people on these websites do not want a simple faith but one where theological learning stimulates them, it is what they enjoy, and nothing thrills people more than feeling they have doscovered, or found even newer, hidden depths of truth in the word, or have read enough of scholars and theologians to know much that wqay
But revelling in theological learning because that is what you enjoy doing does not lead to deep holy SPirit led truth, I am sorry but it doesn't

A famous Evangelist saw incredible miracles of healing in their services
Jamie Buckingham, the respected Christian author wrote the boigraphy whaen this operson died
The Evangelist during their life time was often asked why all were not healed
They shook their heads and said
'I don't know, but that is the first thing I want to ask Jesus when I get to Heaven
Jamie Buckingham remarked
Scholars and theologians had the answers, hundreds of them
But they never saw any miracles
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Study up...

Neither Christ, Paul, Peter, James or John commanded anyone to believe Christ was God Himself, let alone unto salvation
Dead.

Wrong.

We are still waiting for you to rebut the scriptural examples already provided to you long ago.

When can we expect you to stop covering your eyes and ears long enough to reply instead of running...?
 
May 18, 2010
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well God said to me,

Pro 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Pro 4:6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

so I am not concerned about only the least I can do to be saved, but also the understanding of the mystery of the Gospel, given us through the Holy Spirit.
 
May 18, 2010
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Re: Study up...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

and these people performed miracles and still didn't enter into heaven
 
May 18, 2010
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haha, there you will find instability, I haven't drawn a conclusion to my beliefs on the after life, or what happens after death.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
You didn't answer this last time Jimmy, hopefully you will today.
I probably didn't read it. The threads I choose to respond in are generally very limited and brief at this point.

Do you utterly condemn as unfit to be a minister any preacher who will not stand in the pulpit and plainly state what to you is the foundational belief of the faith, and one that will not plainly state from the pulpit if a person believes jesus is the son of God, but not God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore damned and will go to hell

For I am assuming you passionately believe it is the fundamental responsibility and obligation of a minister to plainly state from the pulpit what is and what is not acceptable belief unto salvation concenring the person of who Christ is and the consequences of getting it wrong
A preacher of the Gospel, whether it is as a pastor, a deacon, an elder, or you and I, are to always preach the truth of the Gospel as scripture presents it. Scripture says if you know not the Son you know not the Father. To say the Son is not God, is quite problematic as you can probably tell.

A Jesus without divinity, is not the Jesus of scripture. It is another Jesus, just as the prosperity gospel is not The Gospel.

If the pastor-elder of the church I attend were to say that Jesus is not divine, he is not God, he is only a "good-man", I would believe him to be unregenerate, and likely look for a new church depending on the circumstances.

Why would I? The commands that scripture places upon us must be honored.

I probably would not even share a meal with you.

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls
himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer,
a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
 
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JLHillsSr

Guest
Eph 4:20 KJV - But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 KJV - If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
 
Jan 11, 2013
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You keep producing scripture that says Jesus is the SON of God, but no one is disputing that fact. We have produced scripture that says He is also fully God, yet you do not consider it and then accuse us of not 'standing on the plain words of Christ'. John 8:24 is a clear indication that Jesus called Himself the I am; it is the same as John 8:58.

The above is a classic example of these debates. Your above scriptures do not say Christ is GOD himself. heres a clear and plain scripture on the subject

Now this is eternal life(note what constitutes eternal life) that they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

So I have the plain scripture, you have the theological extrapolations of the natural mind. But I guess it wouldn't be any fun for you if you had to accept ther plain scripture as written, kinda stops all that striving to learn theologically of the little grey cells doesn't it.
So the plain words of Christ on this subect are sacrificed on the altar of the theologians and scholars, and the vanity of wanting to achieve learning via the little grey cells as that gives some a vain sense of achievement of themselves


Where is the wise man, where is the scholar, where is the philosopher of this age.................................................