The Truth about Adam

[weakness]

Jesus is not a descendant of Adam, but he is a descendant of Eve; therefore, he is human (in part), but not from the serpent's seed, an therefore, not under the serpent's curse. Get it?

No, I don't get it.All human flesh is decedent from Adam . Even Eve was made from Adams rib.Do you believe that women (Eve) or Mary the mother of Jesus are some how are immune from the death past to us through Adam and our own sin? Or that only men are the "serpents seed"? And as far as the serpents curse, I don't recall the serpent cursing any thing.God said "cursed is the ground for thy sake"and surly death was the product of the sin in the garden, but maybe your talking about God's curse on Satan (not his seed) above all the cattle and beast of the field?

 

[lost1972]

he was banned now maby this entire thread can be deleted

 

[weakness]

Maybe you should think less AND LEAN MORE ON SCRIPTURE AND SOUND DOCTRINE! I never said Jesus was part satan, but yet he was flesh, which came by Mary. He came from the Father by way of Mary (as according to the prophesy in GEN 3).

Nearly all of the post you are referring to are scripture. I was speaking to Ugly's post anyway.Yes his flesh came by Mary ,and I guess he came from the Father by way of Mary ,only in that he chose her to be his mother.Gen. prophesy I'm not sure of your reference.

 

[iamsoandso]

Jesus is not a descendant of Adam, but he is a descendant of Eve; therefore, he is human (in part), but not from the serpent's seed, an therefore, not under the serpent's curse. Get it?

,,,,,,,,we seem to be forgetting something,,,"and god formed the woman out of the rib",,,so and called the woman eve,,,bone of my bone flesh of my flesh,,,ect.or "what god hath joined together let no man put asunder",,,,this is a pivot point to what you are thinking,,that is "as i said fun",,the way you think because of some teaching you heard,,but not only you(what i say is not meant to offend,,,we both seem to see Christ),,,,yet different here and their so consider this(pivot point),,,,i am not saved by words that come from my mouth,things my spirit says to the bag of flesh of me "get up and do this work" but only this one thing,,,back to the rib,,,Christ(the husband) is the the only first born son of god(first born son receives the entire household of his father(god in his absence/god cannot be in the presence of sin),,,so the first born son came into the world to become espoused (joined as one flesh/for this cause shall you leave out) go back to where it is written in gen. were the sons leave out to marry and live in there own house(this is to Christ,he came from heaven(his fathers house) and took an wife(church),,,so the husband(Christ) is resurrected from the grave,received of the father,,so also is the wife(church/bone of his bone flash of his flesh) raised also,,,,,,,,"it is not good that man(Christ) be alone",,,,so god made him sleep(cross)and removed his rib(church) so then the woman(eve/church),,,came out of his side(rib) when he was pierced (water gushed out) and sanctified(set aside)married to the church,,,,,,,,,,so the son(Christ)and his wife(church)rib,flesh,bone,,,,you see they are both the same the husband and the wife,,the same person,,,many of mankind seek salvation many different ways,,,,yet they live in fear and search the scripture to make sure they are correct,,,,,,,and all the while my husband made mine fear to end,,were ever he go's he takes me his wife with him,,when he was raised,so was me his rib,when i am hungry he feeds me his food,,,,when i was dirty he washed me with his blood,,,,Adam was the first "rib" taken from my husband,,,,Eve was to show you Adam,,,if you look close they are pointing to mine husband,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

"take gen. chapter one,,,,scratch out Adam,and put Christ,,,scratch out Eve,,and put church/bride,,,,,,then look at the rest of the bible and think",,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

why isnt this guy banned yet? everyone else who spouts heresy is.

I not sure he's "spouting heresy". I think he's trying to make us think.

 

[kenisyes]

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Note that Satan is call a cherub, and below you see that there were cherubims already around when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden.


Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Point of clarification. An angel is not a cherub. Ez. 28:13 is a quote from Tyre's bragging. Didn't Sadam Hussein say that same thing once, that he had been to the archeological site where people think the garden was? The cherub is the national emblem of Assyria.

Question on Gen. 3:24, cherubim is plural; how do many cherubs swing one sword?

 

[kenisyes]

What? She (Eve) messed it up a bit? Are you that near-sighted that you cannot tell a lie from the truth. Can you not come up with better reasoning as to why Eve spoke untruth? i don't wonder where u got that idea.

The first estate was being full of the spirit of GOD, by which they had HIS Likeness, Light (Ez 1:26-28).

Yes, Adam is the serpent, which is not a snake as u believe. This is called myth because snakes cannot, nor do not talk. And nowhere in scripture does it say Lucifer had the power to change into a snake. Read the Hebrew definition for serpent and it's root, and you should see that they are talking about liars, not snakes.
You will notice that Eve's eyes were not opened until Adam ate. Why not when she ate? Maybe because she had been deceived and therefore her conscience was not convicted of sin (the knowledge of evil) the moment she ate. You see, Adam told her what she quoted to the serpent (who was just playing like he was ignorant of the TRUTH), but he made himself out to be a liar in now telling her she could freely eat the forbidden fruit. For this she should have run from Adam and sought the LORD, but she allowed her natural lusts to overrule her power of reasoning.

The reason for two punishments for Adam (once as the serpent) is that Adam was body, soul and spirit, but he lost his spirit when he sinned, so that left his soul and his body to be judged, which are the serpent and Adam respectively. What? Did GOD condemn the serpent without a trial, even though the Law demands a trial and at least two witnesses? You make GOD unjust by this understanding. BUt if Adam and the serpent are 1, then GOD is just because Adam already had his trial.

To be a 'little lower' means we are close but not exact. The angles that sinned lost their likeness of the LORD, which is their angelic glow, and nothing more.

Can u not see that Eve's response to the serpent is far from the TRUTH? If Adam told her the TRUTH, then she is the first liar for 'messing it up a bit', which contradicts John 8:44. And the reason the serpent (Adam) asked for her response is because he knows it is not entirely true, and he wants to prove her wrong (that she could touch the fruit). You see, he must have touched it first to help convince her to eat, thus being the reason for the lie in the first place. Can u follow that?

Can u not address the principle i talk of in my post, that 1 who knows the TRUTH can never be deceived about it, no matter how subtle the deceiver? OR, can u not address why GOD would not tell us of angel creation in HIS perfect account of creation? Was GOD trying to keep lucifer and the angels a secret from us?
No, i believe GOD spoke the WHOLE TRUTH, but men have changed it. Even u believe in angel creation apart from man, even though GOD never said they were created. SO who is the one deceived or believing a lie?
I accept what GOD said as the TRUTH; but, by your own words, you must add to it to come up with angel creation apart form man.

Swallow your pride, which is evident by your posts.

Eve spoke untruth because she laid on herself an extra burden. This is the first example (used in the NT) of a woman being unsubmissive to her husband. Rather than asking him, she made up her own.

If the first estate was being full of light, then Eden must be heaven, and outside the garden hell. (I Pt. 2:4) That makes most of earth hell, so what happens if we die in sin? What does the firmament in Ez. 1 have to do with it? That's just the downward side of the crystal sea in Revelation; not the same firmament at all as in Gen.

I know about nachash and its Egyptian roots (how the magicians duplicated Moses' staff's trick), and its Aztec equivalent. The Revelaltion Scripture I quoted says precisely that they are the same. So what do you suppose Moses' serpent on the pole was doing when serific nachashes were biting the Israelites in the desert? "Whisperer is just one possible interpretation, with its associated notion of lying". In 1200BC, Sanchuniaten wrote that snakes can fly at infinite speed.

Hebrew lacks past perfect tense. The verse could just as well mean, she took, gave it to her husband, they are together. Or it could mean she ate, her eyes were opened, but she gave it to him anyway, and persuaded him to eat, then his eyes were opened.

First, both Adam and Eve admitted eating. They were their own witnesses. Second, God was not condemning them, He was stating a fact. If one punishment was to Adam's body and one to his soul, which was which? A soul does not eat, and a soul does not have a belly. And if there is enmity between the seed of Adam and the seed of Eve, we must all hate ourselves.

You skipped how we are going to judge angels...

I can follow your argument. I don't agree with it, so I am presenting another way to interpret theses passages. Nowhere does Scripture say that anyone touched the fruit except Eve, before she gave it to Adam. The misunderstanding (or lie to herself) could have been hers, as I said.

My experience is that people who know the truth are deceived all the time.
Just this morning I had to come back for lighter clothing, because the weatherman deceived me on what the temperature was, and I knew it had to be warmer.

Who says Genesis gives a perfect account of creation? God chose to tell us only an account of creation of the earth. It is perfect in that respect. He tells us about angels elsewhere. Ps. 104:4 uses the Hebrew "asah", which means He "made" them, same word as is used of creation in Gen. 2:2. The quote in Heb. 1:7 uses the Greek "poieo", to produce, which is the same. They are thus created, as was earth.

If you accuse me of pride again, I will assume you are not here for a discussion of Scripture.

 

[Ugly]

All males come from the male seed, which Adam is the first; however, Jesus did not come from the male seed, HE came from GOD; therefore, he is not under the serpent's curse.

He still had a human birth, from a human mother. He was still considered half God and half man. Or, according to your logic, half spawn of satan, half God. Just give up this silly concept. It fails every test.

 

[lost1972]

He still had a human birth, from a human mother. He was still considered half God and half man. Or, according to your logic, half spawn of satan, half God. Just give up this silly concept. It fails every test.

he's already been banned, no point in answering him

 

[vonieykha]

You follow the lessons of the deceived, just as i did for many years. Of course you don't believe me, because you were taught otherwise. WAKE UP!!!! I accept GOD's Word as it is written, most do not (i'm speaking of angel creation not being a part of GEN 1 or 2).

thanks for advice!!. God advice never bring anyone to wrong path. This lesson never deceived and I am have faith on it. I was also impressed with your level of knowledge of some of the stories from the Bible. But without a sense of truth, sometime the understanding can be misused to justify yourself. God bless you, serpentslayer.

 

[MidniteWelder]

Very well put WolfInOxHide:
Many don't see further to realize the forbidden fruit is a metaphor
-Deception-
May I add Satan was teaching Eve the behaviors of Jezebel
And you are correct in every aspect here in your post
Adam wasnt famished in the garden with the abundance of other food to the point of where he would ignore Gods commands without any argument.
Satan knew how to get to Adam, who God placed authority in over all the earth as well as his wife as the head of the relationship,
used Eve to do so by teaching her how to manipulate and decieve with her enticements and realized her power of how to gain control in the relationship

I'd also like to point out in Genesis 3:16 where it states
Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.

that many feel this means a wifes desire is suppose to be to please her husband
which would be correct.
Although I have known some interpretations where it may be that the womans desire will be more for to be equal to her husband, contending with him, arguing with him, wanting the same authority God placed in him
In other words it appears Satan also placed in womans heart the same jealousy and iniquities within her as Satan himself has toward man.
If this isnt so, why would God have to dictate that man is to rule over her if she never had desire to contend with him and more correctly always submitted to him as to the lord as Sarah did to Abraham, without complaint contention asking why or an argument.
But by Faith. God has his reasons.
The relationship between man and wife mimics that between Christ and church
and when is the church ever suppose to question Christs authority
Eve was meant to provide an example of submission to Adam
and rather she chose to challenge him
If challenge is provided more often from the one he is leading, and isnt followed, In the same respect it can frustrate him to wonder why following God as the one in authority over him could be any better than the wife God has provided for him.
It can lead to rebellion with both their prayers hindered.
Hers for not submitting and following
His for listening incorrectly to his wife when she isnt following and is trying to gain control
And since both relationships directly mirror one another, At what point are WE ever to try and gain control over Christ?
Never.
As the wages of sin leads to death, so also did God make good with his word to Adam and Eve
They were ashamed when God called to them because they knew they were doing something wrong
or else they would have no reason to be ashamed
Very much like a parent walkin in on two teenagers and both of them scrambling for their clothes
They gained the knowledge of good and evil.
Satan didnt lie here when he told Eve their eyes would be opened to this knowledge
Another form of deception
A person as well as satan can be deceiving even within telling the truth
if the intentions are wrong, telling half truths, and mixing it with the intention of confusion or escape from responsibility to their actions
As you mentioned Wolf... for personal gain.
I believe this is why God was so upset with all of them
They tried to deny they had their hands in the cookie jar so to speak


"she eats and wipes her mouth and says Ive done nothing wrong"
Jezebel...the way of the adulteress
Always blaming it on the other and never owning up honestly to every fault completely in humbleness
Unwilling to change

Satan introduced this to mankind ever so quickly and God is still angry about this when his followers practice or give in to this behavior as stated in Revelation 2
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Anytime we do anything, we must scrutinize our intentions in every way, down to the very root
To make sure not to be:
Manipulative
Self seeking
Playing the victim to escape responsibility
Trying to make others feel sorry for things one may have brought upon themself
Using uneven scales, only telling one side of a story in an attempt to draw others to their side
Again Deception
Or even telling just enough truth to lead someone to believe what one wants them to.
And for what? For their own gain, yet to their own folly
When God questioned Adam and Eve...he already knew the answers
He just wanted to see what they would say
I notice so many people lie to themselves and even others much the same as Adam and Eve did in the beginning
But one cannot lie to God since he sees everything, and every deed will be brought into light
We have been offered a fair warning in

Romans 2:
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

One may take comfort in their sorrow in this next verse though
Be humble enough to judge themselves before their day in the Lord comes
Before God comes calling as he did with Adam and Eve

1 Corinthians 11:31
29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

And no Adam was not the serpent, here I offer another scripture just in case anyone else contemplates or questions this bunk theory
1 Corinthians 15
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


This last verse helps to explain why God had to prevent them from eating of the tree of everlasting life since they chose the flesh instead of God(even after walking in the garden with him)
Having the knowledge of good and evil as we do now, We must now choose Christ simply by faith instead seeing and walking with him in order to inherit everlasting life.

John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Adam was not the "serpent", because animal personae were not assigned metaphorically to men and women until YHWH gave them skins to cover themselves, immediately after the fall.

But the "serpent" persona had been assigned previously, to something else.

Eve contemplated good vs. evil for personal gain and acted upon it. She performed the same classic sin of woman that is repeated throughout scripture: harlotry. She withheld sex from Adam for personal gain, breaking the innocence of the relationship. She learned "manipulation"
In doing so, she indirectly taught the same idea of evil for personal gain to Adam.
Adam performed the same classic sin that men repeat throughout scripture: Unrighteous execution of authority. He forced himself upon her anyway. He learned "violence."
The sin of the serpent was the same as it is today: he misrepresented the purpose of the law and the intent of the creator.

The sins were physically sexual, and the punishments fit the crime:
Eve's reproductive pleasure was stunted so that she could no longer gain sexual pleasure from harlotry.
(at least not on the level that she was previously capable of. Imagine if women still acquired this pleasure as easily as man, yet still used it unfairly, how much more rewarded she would be)
Adam's gain was cursed to come only through labor, no more freebies. (Observe how much excess men crave today, when they don't have to labor. The rich keep taking more.)

Look forward to the future ladies, the curse will be lifted in the end.
Look forward to the future men, you'll no longer have to bring home the bacon to get sex.
Once both men and women learn to act cleanly.