The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today

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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,636
883
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Now these things are known to those who have received this gift and it is of no use to pontificate from a position of nonexperience about why you do not believe it. Just let it go. '

No amount of ponitification on the part of the unbeliever is going to convince the believer who has been experiencing the reality for years.

Why would you try to stand dry on a deck and argue about the the nonexistence of a swimming pool to a person who is already swimming in it?
100% correct

I received the gift 43 years ago in my room while praying, the gift is the same today.

Your analogy of the swimming pool is spot on :)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,682
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I believe that is directly from God, Brother, and anyone who has read your post should take it to heart and keep it as a constant reminder.
I believe that is directly from God, Brother, and anyone who has read your post should take it to heart and keep it as a constant reminder.
Well at the time I had no clue why I said it or where I even got the idea, but in this year this message has been a constant and he has been pouring this theme into my life more and more, my poems my visions my dreams even just talking with other believers who have felt the same thing.
Something is coming and he is trying to get the church to listen. He lead me to pay more attention to the feast days and today tabernacle in particular was something that I felt he wanted me to check out.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,146
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Slander? Do you not believe and tell others that all bibles contain errors?
If you think I do, then quote me doing so. It's on you to justify your slander.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
482
83
If she is conscious and you want her to understand you pray in your understanding (common language) After you have done that, then also Praying in tongues over the wife will allow the Holy Spirit to pray through you for things you do not know how to pray for and you will speak mysteries directly to God. You can also pray in your understanding over her. And you can also pray in the spirit, you can also interpret tongues if the Spirit leads you to do so. However the intercession in tongues is of great value in and of itself.
so if i pray for my wifes ear infection when she actually has a tooth infection i didnt know about, the Father will ignore my prayer because i was not specific? not sure i agree on that one. anyway i am pretty sure Jesus covered this problem when He explained how the Father knows our heart when we ourselves may be confused and not to worry, in other words have faith in the Father and He will sort it out when you ask, no secret language required.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
76
28
Maybe as a woman, you should remain silent and ask your husband about these things in private at home.
Even if I was a woman, your suggestion would be rejected.

That's something you should check in to: the authenticity of 1 Cor 14:34-35. But since you're KJV Only, you won't. "If it's in the KJV, it's because God wanted it there..."

KJV Onlyism is a sad way to be.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,682
1,495
113
Maybe as a woman, you should remain silent and ask your husband about these things in private at home.
Are you kidding me? I sincerely hope you do not actually think that. I mean I love the kjv but if this is the view of the kjv only believers then I would say maybe read a different version.
I mean this was insulting uncalled for and flat out rude.If you cannot debate in a calm christ like and mature manner then you sohuldn't be debating. I mean the absurdity of such a comment is simply astounding this isn't grade school and if your a believer in Christ the show it, if your not five years old resorting to such childish remarks then prove it.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,669
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I'm not playing your game. You slandered me. You support it, or withdraw it.
How many support pieces do you need?

3. I don't "support" any Bible. I use the NASB for daily reading, I also use the NIV (1975) and the KJV, along with a couple of interlinear versions, and I reference Young's Literal and a dozen others.
4. Because I understand that there are several approaches to translation, none of them perfect.

https://christianchat.com/threads/king-james-bible-only-or-not.153153/post-3111579

Now back to my previous statement. Do you really think God is going to show anything, especially tongues, to a person that believes that every bible is IMPERFECT?

If you want more proof that you claim all bibles have errors, just Google “all bibles have errors, Christian chat and Dino”.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,669
1,042
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Even if I was a woman, your suggestion would be rejected.

That's something you should check in to: the authenticity of 1 Cor 14:34-35. But since you're KJV Only, you won't. "If it's in the KJV, it's because God wanted it there..."

KJV Onlyism is a sad way to be.
If you don’t realize that you are the woman and Christ is the husband then you’re in pretty bad shape spiritually. That’s one of the most basic tenants of Christianity.

But I think I get it. The verses I brought up were written in tongues and yet don’t speak in tongues yet.

First get that heart circumcised so you can understand the KJV, then you can speak in tongues too. Hurry before it’s too late, things are about to go DRASTICALLY bad in this world.
 
Jun 5, 2018
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This is a vastly incorrect view of tongues. I gave testimony of tongues a couple in fact and yes while one was spoken to me from another person I am still part of the church, I myself didn't speak it but a friend spoke it over me. The second yime I gave testimony it was for the sake of a person I had no clue where or who they were but I pored everything into that prayer for them.
The third time perhaps was not for self edification rather just a personal intimate moment between father and I.
Based on what you said all the testimonies I gave don't line up
Hi Blane, just reiterating, this thread is about mindless incomprehensible babble practiced in many denominations today.
As we are aware the gatherings in Corinth were getting themselves into all sorts of issues needing some correcting by Paul. Mindless babble was one of those issues Paul had to address.

Based on what you said all the testimonies I gave don't line up
Well it's not so much about what I said, but more about what Paul said regarding this issue.

Can I encourage you to do a in depth research for yourself, particually I Corinthians chapter 14
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,952
1,188
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Some of the manifestations that are claimed to be 'of God' are of the enemy, the book 'strange fire' i think it's called discusses this
A MacArthur special. He is off his rocker and is going to have answer for his blasphemy.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,146
8,224
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How many support pieces do you need?

3. I don't "support" any Bible. I use the NASB for daily reading, I also use the NIV (1975) and the KJV, along with a couple of interlinear versions, and I reference Young's Literal and a dozen others.
4. Because I understand that there are several approaches to translation, none of them perfect.
Neither of these supports your slander.

Now back to my previous statement. Do you really think God is going to show anything, especially tongues, to a person that believes that every bible is IMPERFECT?
As I think your ideas about both tongues and the foundation of relationship with God are wacky, I see no reason to entertain this line of discussion.

If you want more proof that you claim all bibles have errors, just Google “all bibles have errors, Christian chat and Dino”.
You really aren't getting this concept. YOU supply the evidence, not directions to find it.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
76
28
If you don’t realize that you are the woman and Christ is the husband then you’re in pretty bad shape spiritually. That’s one of the most basic tenants of Christianity.
If you are inferring that I should ask Christ whether the KJV is the God-approved English translation of the Bible, you are out to lunch.

If you think that is that 1 Cor 14:34-35 mean, you are out to lunch.

But I think I get it. The verses I brought up were written in tongues and yet don’t speak in tongues yet.
No verse in the Bible is written in, or using, the manifestation of tongues.

First get that heart circumcised so you can understand the KJV, then you can speak in tongues too. Hurry before it’s too late, things are about to go DRASTICALLY bad in this world.
I am saved, thank you very much, and I already do speak in tongues.

Your last statement may very well be true.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You should stop making things up, garee. Tongues is never called prophecy of God.

The rest of your post is displaying your ignorance yet again. Speaking in tongues is not a "sign gift", whatever that is. It is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit, something God would like every Christian to do (1 Cor 14:5).

Haters are gonna hate, no matter what. It's too bad.
LOl Gotta love the wonderful fill-ups. especially today with a 6 foot pandemic space. The filling station is closed.

Haters should look to the foundation of the law..( Isaiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 . The law you and other that avoid searching after in exchange of self edifying, senseless wonders must .They avoid the foundation like a plague.

Prophecy is the tongue of God's understanding. Why promote no understanding, making the law without effect But rather make a baby sound falling backward. What's the falling backward all about .

Getting filled with self edifying wonderments?

Below is a portion of the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 founded in Isaiah 28.


The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”


So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other
languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.


”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. "They" will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah 28:9-14 .

Can you explain why they mock the spirit of judgment and call it getting filled or slain in the spirit?

How many time does a person need to be slain? Over and over ?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,146
8,224
113
LOl Gotta love the wonderful fill-ups. especially today with a 6 foot pandemic space. The filling station is closed.

Haters should look to the foundation of the law..( Isaiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 . The law you and other that avoid searching after in exchange of self edifying, senseless wonders must .They avoid the foundation like a plague.

Prophecy is the tongue of God's understanding. Why promote no understanding, making the law without effect But rather make a baby sound falling backward. What's the falling backward all about .

Getting filled with self edifying wonderments?

Below is a portion of the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 founded in Isaiah 28.


The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”


So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other
languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.


”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. "They" will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah 28:9-14 .

Can you explain why they mock the spirit of judgment and call it getting filled or slain in the spirit?

How many time does a person need to be slain? Over and over ?
This is sadly typical: you can't limit yourself to the topic of the post to which you are responding, but instead go on a rant. It's no wonder so many people simply ignore you.
 
Mar 21, 2009
1,931
743
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New York
so if i pray for my wifes ear infection when she actually has a tooth infection i didnt know about, the Father will ignore my prayer because i was not specific? not sure i agree on that one. anyway i am pretty sure Jesus covered this problem when He explained how the Father knows our heart when we ourselves may be confused and not to worry, in other words have faith in the Father and He will sort it out when you ask, no secret language required.
I don't think you can get that from what I said. However if you did, I agree with you that is not how it works.

Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.

I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.

If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:

Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.

26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)

Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.

So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.

There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.

I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy. :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,644
5,623
113
Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.
Actually Paul said that there was NO BENEFIT. Please note carefully:

BOTH MIND AND SPIRIT MUST BE ENGAGED IN PRAYER
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (1 Cor 14:15)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,682
1,495
113
I don't think you can get that from what I said. However if you did, I agree with you that is not how it works.

Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.

I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.

If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:

Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.

26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)

Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.

So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.

There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.

I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy. :)
Trust me even if it is only a few in the forum your pearls are not thrown to the wsine. I have enjoyed your post here it is very informative and has a great truth to it. I am not an expert on tongues itself and I do love to learn so trust me your posts matter