The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
258
127
43
Correct. That was THEN. This is now. Proof?

PROPHECIES WOULD CEASE ("FAIL" KATARGEO = CEASE)
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail [καταργηθήσονται ( katargēthēsontai) = they will be done away]; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (1 Cor 13:8)

ADDITIONAL PROPHECIES FORBIDDEN AFTER REVELATION
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: (Rev 22:18)

So the book of Revelation closed both prophecies, tongues, and supernatural knowledge. There are no modern apostles and prophets. Just evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

So when it says "a new commandment I give you" its not valid, because Deuteronomy 4:2.

Thats simply a warning not to add to Scripture, nothing about prophecy pertaining to our personal lives, which is different for each person.
Cessationists arguments are so WEAK its hard to respond seriously to any of it. They got one verse in 1 Cor 13:8, disregarding a ton of others, go on and on about how Paul this and Paul that apostle to the gentiles, yet when it comes to spiritual gifts, well you say "that was then".

No no no. This is all just poor bible interpretation done in order to get rid of the scary gifts of the Holy Spirit. People dont like that for some reason. God is a book now and any and all prophecy is only in the Bible, God simply cannot tell you who to marry, where to work, where to live, what ministry you are called to, He just isnt capable because now we got the canon of Scripture, so you can have a one way talk with God and He will never talk back. WHY did God lose all His power and ability to communicate with people after the bible canon was complete? That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all and there is no Scripture for God not guiding our lives in the Holy Spirit.

The Bible tells us God's commandments, has valuable stories that teach us how to act in certain situations, but it definately does not tell us the things that are different for each person, as I mentioned above, the Bible does not tell YOU individually what to do, it says dont steal, love your neighbor, love God, it doesnt say marry X person, move to Y city, and that is why we STILL need the Holy Spirit and will forever need the Holy Spirit.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
76
28
I already stated it’s the foreign languages, as in acts 2.
So for you to believe, you would have to see someone speak in tongues and have the language be recognized by someone else present?

The Bible does not guarantee that.

No I am not saying forbid, there is a chance of course that those Shaba Shaba types are also tongues. Anyway this issue is non salvific, I guess it is useful as some kind of placebo effect
So tongues are a placebo? When Paul said that when a person speaks in tongues he is speaking to God, giving thanks well, edifying himself (and when interpreted, edifying the church), he was saying things that really don't mean anything?
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
76
28

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
479
83
The tongue people present this gift as if it is prophesy but without the prophesy, its direct contact with the Father. The tongue people forget what prophesy really is. They seem to think its a revelation of a future event, and nothing more. You go back and look at 2 prophets such as Elijah and Samuel, yes they received prophetic visions but they also spoke to the Father all the time, probably every day. When the people want a man for a king and not the Lord, Samuel is upset, so upset that the Father has to talk to him explaining to him they are not rejecting Samuel but rejecting Him the Father. These guys spoke and were spoken to by the Father all the time, and there was no special language needed. thats what a prophet was.
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
265
63
If modern tongues were the same as the spiritual gift described in the NT, no one could rightly object. But modern tongues are NOT biblical tongues, and to claim that those who babble are "Spirit-filled", while those who do not are not "Spirit-filled" is definitely a serious cause of unnecessary division.

BTW, I am not presenting mere "opinions" as you continue to falsely assert. The facts of the matter are there for all to see. You claimed that tongues continued after the first century. I showed you from the Early Church Fathers that they did not. That is historical evidence.
😁
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
265
63
what your doing is not a divine gift, anyone can go out and make these sounds. please explain how thats divine power from the heavens.
you dont know the propose of tongues. i asked you how they benefited the speaker, you didnt have an answer.
😁
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,204
1,427
113
LOL Have you looked at the foundation of the law of tongues, the prophecy of God . Its in the Old testament. (Isaiah 28)

Note... (parenthesis) my addition or opinion

Proverbs 26:4-5 There is no good way to answer fools when they say something stupid.(“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”)
If you answer them, then you, too, will look like a fool. If you don’t answer them, they will think they are smart.

Isaiah 28 But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”


When the
people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,303
1,314
113
what your doing is not a divine gift, anyone can go out and make these sounds. please explain how thats divine power from the heavens.
you dont know the propose of tongues. i asked you how they benefited the speaker, you didnt have an answer.
A cessationist is like telling a major league ball player "baseball ceased in 1922. I know because my pastor said so "

Ball player just smiles and starts walking backwards

No use talking about it.

You are that far out in a made up "reality"

All truth comes from heaven.
That is the starting place.
The spirit is the starting place
Not clever men with mental "discernment"
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,303
1,314
113
Nehemiah6 said:
""If modern tongues were the same as the spiritual gift described in the NT, no one could rightly object. But modern tongues are NOT biblical tongues, and to claim that those who babble are "Spirit-filled", while those who do not are not "Spirit-filled" is definitely a serious cause of unnecessary division.

BTW, I am not presenting mere "opinions" as you continue to falsely assert. The facts of the matter are there for all to see. You claimed that tongues continued after the first century. I showed you from the Early Church Fathers that they did not. That is historical evidence.""

Utube has hundreds of baptist policemen enforcing their attacks on charismatics.

The "division " is in that arena only.
No charismatic has the time to waste initiating some campaign to make tongues the battleground.
That division is the sole property of cessationists.

They make it a battleground.

It is a created crisis. Created by cessationists
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
Modern tongues have caused a huge division within evangelical Christianity, and division is not from God.
If you knew the Spoken words of Christ, you would have never made such a ridiculous remark!

This is Christ Himself (or as John 14:10 explains, the FATHER LIVING inside Christ) is saying:
Luke 12:51

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
479
83
A cessationist is like telling a major league ball player "baseball ceased in 1922. I know because my pastor said so "

Ball player just smiles and starts walking backwards

No use talking about it.

You are that far out in a made up "reality"

All truth comes from heaven.
That is the starting place.
The spirit is the starting place
Not clever men with mental "discernment"
a baseball player actually knows how to play baseball. in the tongue speaking world anyone can go out and fake playing pro ball just as anyone can go out and make the babbel sounds. making babbel sounds is not divine power from the heavens.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,540
7,843
113
Sorry I meant rationalize.
You were responding to a post in which the word, "rational" was used appropriately. Had you used "rationalize" it would not have related.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
1,675
708
113
Modern tongues have caused a huge division within evangelical Christianity, and division is not from God. It has also resulted in “two-tier” Christianity – those who are presumably “Spirit-filled” (the tongue-speakers) being Tier One, and everyone else (who should go to the back of the bus, since they are not “Spirit-filled”) within Tier Two.

The truth of the matter is that modern tongues are not even biblical tongues. And the only reason the KJV translators used the word “tongues” is because back in the 17th century, that word was interchangeable with “languages”. So if we eliminate “unknown” (since that is not in the Greek text, therefore italicized) and simply say “language” or “languages”, the whole controversy disappears. Indeed, several modern translations do not even use the word “tongues”, and consistently translate glossa or glossais as language or languages.

There is no glossolalia in the New Testament, and that is what is practiced today.
‘Those are the terms we have heard frequently at Charismatic conferences, such as those in New Orleans in 1987, Indianapolis in 1990, and St. Louis in 2000. The tongues that I heard in these conferences were not languages of any sort but merely repetitious mumblings that anyone could imitate. Larry Lea’s “tongues” at Indianapolis in 1990 went like this: “Bubblyida bubblyida hallelujah bubblyida hallabubbly shallabubblyida kolabubblyida glooooory hallelujah bubblyida.” I wrote that down as he was saying it and later checked it against the tape. Nancy Kellar, a Roman Catholic nun who was on the executive committee of the St. Louis meeting in 2000, spoke in “tongues” on Thursday evening of the conference. Her tongues were a repetition of “shananaa leea, shananaa higha, shananaa nanaa, shananaa leea…” ‘
https://www.wayoflife.org/database/pentecostaltongues.html


But no one is speaking unlearned foreign languages supernaturally today (as even the Charismatics will tell you). It would be fantastic for missionaries from the USA to go to Japan (for example) and simply start speaking Japanese fluently and supernaturally. Instead they must spend months and years learning the language, and being only rudimentary speakers after all that.

However, when you study Acts chapter 2, there are at least fifteen foreign languages or dialects listed, and that is when tongues were manifested on the day of Pentecost. Simple Galileans (who spoke only Aramaic) were suddenly speaking Persian or Arabic as though they were native speakers! And the native speakers heard their words and understood everything perfectly.

When we come to 1 Corinthians 14, it should be evident that it is there for the correction of the Christians at Corinth. They were abusing tongues, so Paul had to straighten them out. What does Paul say? “There is no reason to believe that the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is any different from that mentioned in the book of Acts. In both places the tongues involved speaking in earthly languages that one had never learned.” [Ibid]

1. Focus on prophecy, not on tongues, but make agape love your primary goal. (vv 1-6)

2. Speaking within the church should be spiritually meaningful (vv 7-12)

3. There must be interpretation whenever tongues are spoken (vv 13-17)

4. Paul would rather speak 5 intelligible words than 10,000 words in tongues (vv 18-19)

5. Focusing on tongues is childish, and if everyone spoke in tongues at the same time, visitors would think they are all mad (vv 20-23)

6. Prophecy is extremely profitable for many reasons (vv 24-26)

7. Tongues (with interpreters) are limited to two or three speakers at the most (vv 27-28)

8. Prophecies are also limited to two or three speakers (vv 29-33)

9. Women are to maintain silence within the churches (vv 34-38)

10. Closing comments – everything to be done decently and in order (vv 39-40)
You are an expert on NOT speaking in tongues, right Bro ? Where else does your church or you fall short besides the gift of tongues ?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,204
1,427
113
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

So when it says "a new commandment I give you" its not valid, because Deuteronomy 4:2.

Thats simply a warning not to add to Scripture, nothing about prophecy pertaining to our personal lives, which is different for each person.
Cessationists arguments are so WEAK its hard to respond seriously to any of it. They got one verse in 1 Cor 13:8, disregarding a ton of others, go on and on about how Paul this and Paul that apostle to the gentiles, yet when it comes to spiritual gifts, well you say "that was then".

No no no. This is all just poor bible interpretation done in order to get rid of the scary gifts of the Holy Spirit. People dont like that for some reason. God is a book now and any and all prophecy is only in the Bible, God simply cannot tell you who to marry, where to work, where to live, what ministry you are called to, He just isnt capable because now we got the canon of Scripture, so you can have a one way talk with God and He will never talk back. WHY did God lose all His power and ability to communicate with people after the bible canon was complete? That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all and there is no Scripture for God not guiding our lives in the Holy Spirit.

The Bible tells us God's commandments, has valuable stories that teach us how to act in certain situations, but it definately does not tell us the things that are different for each person, as I mentioned above, the Bible does not tell YOU individually what to do, it says dont steal, love your neighbor, love God, it doesnt say marry X person, move to Y city, and that is why we STILL need the Holy Spirit and will forever need the Holy Spirit.
Who said we do not need the Spirit that dwells in us? God's word is living.

Scary gifts as wonderments? Being slain in the spirit is spooky beyond words of understanding. Is our wondering mind the limit ?

In order to protect the integrity of the author of our new faith . He has given us two different laws to protect the one perfect.

One in the Deuteronomy 4:2 account in regard to changing the meaning of one word. Seeing it can change the commandments( plural) Like the word apostle or the word prophecy, or seed (singular ). Every word has a meaning assigned to it. To violate that warning is the sin of plagiarism. like in the beginning. "Thou shall not surely die. .open your eyes look at me a live Sssssssss. It violates the first commandment .(No plagiarism)

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular) , that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

When he had finished giving us all the laws needed to know him adequately .(face to face) in the revealed knowledge. He set aside the other governor in place. And added anyone that adds or substracts form the perfect will face the plagues written in the book of prophecy. In order to know all the plagues one must search the perfect.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

If we do walk by faith (not of us) the unseen eternal . Why would we seek after more that he has revealed? The Spirit of Christ working in Abel to both will and do his good pleasure. He revealed enough to Abel. . . the first prophet, apostle and first martyr.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,540
7,843
113
Who said we do not need the Spirit that dwells in us? God's word is living.

Scary gifts as wonderments? Being slain in the spirit is spooky beyond words of understanding. Is our wondering mind the limit ?

In order to protect the integrity of the author of our new faith . He has given us two different laws to protect the one perfect.

One in the Deuteronomy 4:2 account in regard to changing the meaning of one word. Seeing it can change the commandments( plural) Like the word apostle or the word prophecy, or seed (singular ). Every word has a meaning assigned to it. To violate that warning is the sin of plagiarism. like in the beginning. "Thou shall not surely die. .open your eyes look at me a live Sssssssss. It violates the first commandment .(No plagiarism)
Go and look up the word, "plagiarism". You haven't got the concept correct.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,540
7,843
113
a baseball player actually knows how to play baseball. in the tongue speaking world anyone can go out and fake playing pro ball just as anyone can go out and make the babbel sounds. making babbel sounds is not divine power from the heavens.
In Acts 10, was Cornelius "pretending to play baseball", or was he "playing baseball"?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
1,675
708
113
a baseball player actually knows how to play baseball. in the tongue speaking world anyone can go out and fake playing pro ball just as anyone can go out and make the babbel sounds. making babbel sounds is not divine power from the heavens.
Some might fake it but I'm here to tell you I couldn't fake it if I wanted to .. Here's a question .. If you physically hear someone stand up and deliver a message in tongues in church but at the same time hear in your language in your mind/spirit about a specific person or church encouragement in your mind at the same time, even another interpreter stand up with the exact same word for word interpretation as you heard in your mind and Spirit enough to confirm the interpreters interpretation , how could/would you rate it as fake ?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
1,675
708
113
Who said we do not need the Spirit that dwells in us? God's word is living.

Scary gifts as wonderments? Being slain in the spirit is spooky beyond words of understanding. Is our wondering mind the limit ?

In order to protect the integrity of the author of our new faith . He has given us two different laws to protect the one perfect.

One in the Deuteronomy 4:2 account in regard to changing the meaning of one word. Seeing it can change the commandments( plural) Like the word apostle or the word prophecy, or seed (singular ). Every word has a meaning assigned to it. To violate that warning is the sin of plagiarism. like in the beginning. "Thou shall not surely die. .open your eyes look at me a live Sssssssss. It violates the first commandment .(No plagiarism)

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular) , that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

When he had finished giving us all the laws needed to know him adequately .(face to face) in the revealed knowledge. He set aside the other governor in place. And added anyone that adds or substracts form the perfect will face the plagues written in the book of prophecy. In order to know all the plagues one must search the perfect.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

If we do walk by faith (not of us) the unseen eternal . Why would we seek after more that he has revealed? The Spirit of Christ working in Abel to both will and do his good pleasure. He revealed enough to Abel. . . the first prophet, apostle and first martyr.
Have you ever went forward to have hands laid on you by the elders or to be anointed with oil ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,977
5,024
113
If you knew the Spoken words of Christ, you would have never made such a ridiculous remark!
The spoken words of Christ were in Aramaic, and He said nothing about tongues being an acceptable divisive force. Christ Himself divides human beings into either believers or non-believers. That is through the Sword of the Gospel, the Word of God.