The TWO WITNESSES

[Pilgrimshope]

do you think this is a literal Vision ?

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is that literal or is it an image representing a true message in scripture like this ?

“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

…Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24, 30-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Do you see what I mean ? The whole book of revelation is like that we’re seeing an apocalypse of the message in the Bible. The things in revelation represent established messages written in scripture. Revealing the overall plans of God for his creation

another example would be this

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Joseph had a dream when the original israel was established.

“And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭37:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jacobs ( Israel’s) reply

“And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭37:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

originally israel was Jacob and his family , his wife and twelve sons represented by the sun , moon and twelve stars.

then you have her expecting a man child who was to rule all nations from Gods throne with a rod of iron the prophets had repeatedly promised israel a messiah ( son of man ) who would rule Gods eternal Kingdom with a rod of iron

she was expecting a son ( man child ) to be born

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Who would rule the kingdom forever from the kings throne this is a repetitive promise to israel in the prophets

“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Satan tried to destroy him through Herod , through temptation , through accusing him at the law , through entering Judas and betraying him and eventually trying to break him physically but then he was caught up to Gods throne .

this is only a small sample but revelation every chapter and verse can be understood this way. By hearing the prophets and gospel and epistles understanding that revelation is not literal But an apocalypse of prior words of God established tomgovenusnjneeerrs don’t of his plan for creation

 

[Hone]

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

wouldn’t believing the gospel be how one is sealed ?

all Christians believe in the gospels, yes, they help one be sealed.....but they are divided into two groups.
one keeps SATURDAY Sabbath
the other SUNDAY
ALL are/claim to be Christians.
(that's another thread ail together)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

all Christians believe in the gospels, yes, they help one be sealed.....but they are divided into two groups.
one keeps SATURDAY Sabbath
the other SUNDAY
ALL are/claim to be Christians.
(that's another thread ail together)

bro just on this site there are professing Christians that believe the gospels aren’t the gospel. And insist there’s another gospel.

and Saturday sabbath keeping or Sunday ? What does that have to do with anything Christian ? It’s like saying come Christians eat pork and others don’t . Or some Christians observe Passover feasts and others don’t.

we have to believe the gospel to receive the holy spirit and become Gods children which is the seal given of God for his people who walk according to light d righteousness . The mark of the beast is to be satans child and work evil in the earth.

but that’s only My own belief Gods children are created by being born again through the gospel

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭

the Holy Spirit is the seal in our minds and hearts and when we accept and follow the gospel we are renewed or born again through the word of truth promising us eternal al Life in his kingdom , but assuring that we are no longer children of the world

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And

we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭


Believing The gospel gives us a new understanding of God , his son , and ourselves who receive his spirit that seals us with Christs seal
Of approval

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And it is not for man to see but only God and the angels of God and the fallen angels.

what about his children 😁

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

born of his spirit washed in his blood ? Blessed assurance Jesus is mine , praising my savior all the day long !!!

lol sorry that song is stuck in my head

 

[DavidTree]

what about his children 😁

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

born of his spirit washed in his blood ? Blessed assurance Jesus is mine , praising my savior all the day long !!!

lol sorry that song is stuck in my head

Blessed Assurance Oh what a foretaste of Glory Divine - Heir of Salvation JESUS is mine (singing this off the top of my head)
Born of His Spirit washed in His Blood
What memories this brings back to me when i was first saved long time ago - makes me cry in joy Brother - TY

Good question and the answer is very beautiful - i started a PM with another member on this i will give you access.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Blessed Assurance Oh what a foretaste of Glory Divine - Heir of Salvation JESUS is mine (singing this off the top of my head)
Born of His Spirit washed in His Blood
What memories this brings back to me when i was first saved long time ago - makes me cry in joy Brother - TY

Good question and the answer is very beautiful - i started a PM with another member on this i will give you access.

Amen I love those old gospel tunes they were always full of scriptural truths !!

do you remember “ I love to tell
The story , twill be my fame and glory , to tell the old old story that I have loved so long ? “

 

[Hone]

bro just on this site there are professing Christians that believe the gospels aren’t the gospel. And insist there’s another gospel.

and Saturday sabbath keeping or Sunday ? What does that have to do with anything Christian ? It’s like saying come Christians eat pork and others don’t . Or some Christians observe Passover feasts and others don’t.

we have to believe the gospel to receive the holy spirit and become Gods children which is the seal given of God for his people who walk according to light d righteousness . The mark of the beast is to be satans child and work evil in the earth.

but that’s only My own belief Gods children are created by being born again through the gospel

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭

the Holy Spirit is the seal in our minds and hearts and when we accept and follow the gospel we are renewed or born again through the word of truth promising us eternal al Life in his kingdom , but assuring that we are no longer children of the world

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And

we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭


Believing The gospel gives us a new understanding of God , his son , and ourselves who receive his spirit that seals us with Christs seal
Of approval

In the Gospels, they tell us to keep the commandments, one of those commandments is keep the Sabbath,... I read and believe the gospels and all they teach us....because of the Gospels and their truths I have been baptised to follow Christ.
The Gospels told of Jesus, then I followed what Jesus asked of me, to become a Christian through water baptism, now I try to do whatever is expected from a Christian.
I believe the gospels....you/others believe the gospels,..... but are we saved because of our belief in the gospels.
Or do the gospels, direct us to Jesus, who asks us to be baptised, which leads us to become children of GOD,.. (SAVED)
The difference between Christians is the day they keep as Sabbath, ...because we all feel the same of GOD and Jesus.
but this thread is on the two witnesses and we should all be trying to understand who they are, to further our walk with Christ and each other

 

[ewq1938]

In the Gospels, they tell us to keep the commandments, one of those commandments is keep the Sabbath

Keeping the Sabbath was only a commandment under the first covenant. When Christ died, the old covenant was replaced by a new covenant which DID NOT command keeping the Saturday Sabbath.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In the Gospels, they tell us to keep the commandments, one of those commandments is keep the Sabbath,... I read and believe the gospels and all they teach us....because of the Gospels and their truths I have been baptised to follow Christ.
The Gospels told of Jesus, then I followed what Jesus asked of me, to become a Christian through water baptism, now I try to do whatever is expected from a Christian.
I believe the gospels....you/others believe the gospels,..... but are we saved because of our belief in the gospels.
Or do the gospels, direct us to Jesus, who asks us to be baptised, which leads us to become children of GOD,.. (SAVED)
The difference between Christians is the day they keep as Sabbath, ...because we all feel the same of GOD and Jesus.
but this thread is on the two witnesses and we should all be trying to understand who they are, to further our walk with Christ and each other

Jesus said to those who were all under the law to do everything the Levite priests commanded because his covenant word didn’t go into effect until his blood was shed


“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-17‬ ‭

so of course he told Jews who were all circumcised and beholden to the law of Moses to keep it . That’s what he was saying nothing would change until all had been fulfilled

the thing the law keepers in Christ should know is this

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law was for these people and was by this word and blood

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that has nothing to do with Christs word and blood it’s a law for Israel , to keep as they went into thier land of promise and the blood was of bulls and goats according to Moses word. The law can’t be divided it’s everything Moses commanded in the book of the covenant to Israel and sprinkled the blood of animals on.

It’s a seperate law and it’s a pattern only of Christs word and his blood of the New Testament. We have a law , it’s the word of Christ and we have a sacrifice it’s the blood of Christ himself , we have an intercessor it’s Christ and mediator it’s Christ. He fulfilled everything patterned after him in Moses law.

the two covenants don’t mix one is Moses intercession , Moses word , the blood Moses shed according to his word. Ours is the gospel Jesus preached and said believe me his blood shed for us on the cross at Calvary.

the law isn’t for a Christian , the gospel is for a Christian d it’s far better giving us a relationship with God wherein we are not told to keep away because of our sins , but to come near and be healed of our sin.

when we turn to the law we’re turning backwards to a covenant that is already fulfilled and has no power to redeem souls , free us from sin , or teach us righteousness . And to blood that has no power to atone for sins but instead like the law is a constant reminder of sin.

the Jews were told to obey everything the priests had said because they were all under the law until Christ fulfilled it and his word went into effect upon his death ( shedding of his blood ) and resurrection.

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law and prophets were until John now until the end of the world the gospel of the kingdom is preached to all nations

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

it’s far better because it’s about believing and coming into and growing in the word rather than this

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you transgress Moses word once it’s a death sentence like he received himself being banned from the promised land. Moses word and animal blood for Israel’s land . Christs word and his blood for the heavenly kingdom which will fill the new earth one day .

 

[Hone]

Well, i guess the Lord's Coming is long overdue - which dosen't make sense since He said He would shorten those days.

I hope your not implying, ...I'm saying Jesus came at this time (538 ad - 1798 ad), trust me when I say I know better.
so can I have your understanding of ...Revelations:11 v 3 "and I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy for a thousand, two hundred & three score days, dressed in sackcloth" please

 

[Hone]

Keeping the Sabbath was only a commandment under the first covenant. When Christ died, the old covenant was replaced by a new covenant which DID NOT command keeping the Saturday Sabbath.

Sorry I only want to concentrate on the two witnesses on this thread....we can discuss what your saying on another, (I would be more than happy) no disrespect.

 

[Hone]

Jesus said to those who were all under the law to do everything the Levite priests commanded because his covenant word didn’t go into effect until his blood was shed


“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-17‬ ‭

so of course he told Jews who were all circumcised and beholden to the law of Moses to keep it . That’s what he was saying nothing would change until all had been fulfilled

the thing the law keepers in Christ should know is this

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law was for these people and was by this word and blood

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that has nothing to do with Christs word and blood it’s a law for Israel , to keep as they went into thier land of promise and the blood was of bulls and goats according to Moses word. The law can’t be divided it’s everything Moses commanded in the book of the covenant to Israel and sprinkled the blood of animals on.

It’s a seperate law and it’s a pattern only of Christs word and his blood of the New Testament. We have a law , it’s the word of Christ and we have a sacrifice it’s the blood of Christ himself , we have an intercessor it’s Christ and mediator it’s Christ. He fulfilled everything patterned after him in Moses law.

the two covenants don’t mix one is Moses intercession , Moses word , the blood Moses shed according to his word. Ours is the gospel Jesus preached and said believe me his blood shed for us on the cross at Calvary.

the law isn’t for a Christian , the gospel is for a Christian d it’s far better giving us a relationship with God wherein we are not told to keep away because of our sins , but to come near and be healed of our sin.

when we turn to the law we’re turning backwards to a covenant that is already fulfilled and has no power to redeem souls , free us from sin , or teach us righteousness . And to blood that has no power to atone for sins but instead like the law is a constant reminder of sin.

the Jews were told to obey everything the priests had said because they were all under the law until Christ fulfilled it and his word went into effect upon his death ( shedding of his blood ) and resurrection.

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law and prophets were until John now until the end of the world the gospel of the kingdom is preached to all nations

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

it’s far better because it’s about believing and coming into and growing in the word rather than this

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you transgress Moses word once it’s a death sentence like he received himself being banned from the promised land. Moses word and animal blood for Israel’s land . Christs word and his blood for the heavenly kingdom which will fill the new earth one day .

again I'm sorry but I'm not interested in all that...right now ....I want to l;earn who the two witnesses are, ...
I pose the same Bible quotation to you...Revelation 11: 3...look forward to your understanding

 

[Pilgrimshope]

again I'm sorry but I'm not interested in all that...right now ....I want to l;earn who the two witnesses are, ...
I pose the same Bible quotation to you...Revelation 11: 3...look forward to your understanding

so why did you bring it up ?

 

[Hone]

so why did you bring it up ?

I was talking with thewatchman about the gospels....please REVELATION's 11:3...I'm really interested in your take on this verse.

 

[ewq1938]

Instead of trying to identify "the two witnesses", I find it more important to accurately understand what the "two witnesses" are, and ARE NOT.



Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


"the two olive trees" AND "the two candlesticks"


As you see, there are two of one thing and two of another.



------------------one witness------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

We have 4 altogether that compose the "two witness".

So what are olive trees?


Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?


"What are these two olive trees"


Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zechariah 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


"These are the two anointed ones"


And olive trees represent anointed people. So, the two olive trees that form ONE WITNESS are two individuals that have been anointed.


Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


Two anointed ones. To be anointed simply means to be blessed with the gifts of the Holy spirit, especially with knowledge which includes knowledge of the future known as prophecy. "ones" means individuals, there are two individuals being spoken of.

ones:

1121

01121 ben {bane}

from 01129; TWOT - 254; n m

AV - son 2978, children 1568, old 135, first 51, man 20, young 18,
young + 01241 17, child 10, stranger 10, people 5, misc 92; 4906

1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
1a) son, male child
1b) grandson
1c) children (pl. - male and female)
1d) youth, young men (pl.)
1e) young (of animals)
1f) sons (as characterisation, ie sons of injustice [for un-
righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
1g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
1h) of lifeless things, ie sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
1i) a member of a guild, order, class

----------------one witness--------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


What are the two candlesticks?

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


"and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"


Candlesticks represent churches which are groups of Christians.







Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


so to add what we know:


Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two [anointed ones], AND the two [churches] standing before the God of the earth.

According to scripture, the two witnesses are two churches (candlesticks) AND two persons (olives trees). One witness is the two churches, the other witness is the two persons. Many believe it is Elijah and Enoch but who they are or aren't is another discussion.




When scripture refers to the two "olive trees" and we learn that olive trees represent "anointed ones" then we know these two olive trees are in fact two "anointed ones" which is simply two anointed people or persons...but there's more:


Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


Here only the two olive trees are called the two prophets. Prophets are individuals, in fact they are males. Two male prophets which are anointed by God to give prophetic messages.


Since its also scriptural fact that candlesticks are churches we then have this:


Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees [the two anointed prophets], and the two candlesticks [two churches] standing before the God of the earth.


Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


If you wish to speak of the two prophets which are killed by the antichrist/beast and are raised back to life by God, it is incorrect to refer to them as the "two witnesses" since the scriptures do not. They are referred to as one of the two witnesses, the two olive trees which are two anointed individuals ie: the two prophets.

 

[Hone]

Instead of trying to identify "the two witnesses", I find it more important to accurately understand what the "two witnesses" are, and ARE NOT.



Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


"the two olive trees" AND "the two candlesticks"


As you see, there are two of one thing and two of another.



------------------one witness------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

We have 4 altogether that compose the "two witness".

So what are olive trees?


Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?


"What are these two olive trees"


Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zechariah 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


"These are the two anointed ones"


And olive trees represent anointed people. So, the two olive trees that form ONE WITNESS are two individuals that have been anointed.


Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


Two anointed ones. To be anointed simply means to be blessed with the gifts of the Holy spirit, especially with knowledge which includes knowledge of the future known as prophecy. "ones" means individuals, there are two individuals being spoken of.

ones:

1121

01121 ben {bane}

from 01129; TWOT - 254; n m

AV - son 2978, children 1568, old 135, first 51, man 20, young 18,
young + 01241 17, child 10, stranger 10, people 5, misc 92; 4906

1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
1a) son, male child
1b) grandson
1c) children (pl. - male and female)
1d) youth, young men (pl.)
1e) young (of animals)
1f) sons (as characterisation, ie sons of injustice [for un-
righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
1g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
1h) of lifeless things, ie sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
1i) a member of a guild, order, class

----------------one witness--------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


What are the two candlesticks?

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


"and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"


Candlesticks represent churches which are groups of Christians.







Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


so to add what we know:


Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two [anointed ones], AND the two [churches] standing before the God of the earth.

According to scripture, the two witnesses are two churches (candlesticks) AND two persons (olives trees). One witness is the two churches, the other witness is the two persons. Many believe it is Elijah and Enoch but who they are or aren't is another discussion.




When scripture refers to the two "olive trees" and we learn that olive trees represent "anointed ones" then we know these two olive trees are in fact two "anointed ones" which is simply two anointed people or persons...but there's more:


Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


Here only the two olive trees are called the two prophets. Prophets are individuals, in fact they are males. Two male prophets which are anointed by God to give prophetic messages.


Since its also scriptural fact that candlesticks are churches we then have this:


Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees [the two anointed prophets], and the two candlesticks [two churches] standing before the God of the earth.


Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


If you wish to speak of the two prophets which are killed by the antichrist/beast and are raised back to life by God, it is incorrect to refer to them as the "two witnesses" since the scriptures do not. They are referred to as one of the two witnesses, the two olive trees which are two anointed individuals ie: the two prophets.

ok one question,...if the olive trees, the candle sticks or even if they translate to Enoch Elijah, even Moses as the two witnesses.
how did any of them prophesy for 1260 years (that's what the Bible says),,..when did that happen, Methuselah was the oldest man at 969 yrs....how can olive trees and candle sticks prophesy.....and what does "clothes in sack-cloth" mean?

 

[ewq1938]

ok one question,...if the olive trees, the candle sticks or even if they translate to Enoch Elijah, even Moses as the two witnesses.
how did any of them prophesy for 1260 years (that's what the Bible says)

The bible does not say that. The two witnesses have 1260 days.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Sackcloth represents mourning.

1260 days is basically same as 42 months:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[Hone]

Instead of trying to identify "the two witnesses", I find it more important to accurately understand what the "two witnesses" are, and ARE NOT.



Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


"the two olive trees" AND "the two candlesticks"


As you see, there are two of one thing and two of another.



------------------one witness------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

We have 4 altogether that compose the "two witness".

So what are olive trees?


Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?


"What are these two olive trees"


Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zechariah 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


"These are the two anointed ones"


And olive trees represent anointed people. So, the two olive trees that form ONE WITNESS are two individuals that have been anointed.


Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


Two anointed ones. To be anointed simply means to be blessed with the gifts of the Holy spirit, especially with knowledge which includes knowledge of the future known as prophecy. "ones" means individuals, there are two individuals being spoken of.

ones:

1121

01121 ben {bane}

from 01129; TWOT - 254; n m

AV - son 2978, children 1568, old 135, first 51, man 20, young 18,
young + 01241 17, child 10, stranger 10, people 5, misc 92; 4906

1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
1a) son, male child
1b) grandson
1c) children (pl. - male and female)
1d) youth, young men (pl.)
1e) young (of animals)
1f) sons (as characterisation, ie sons of injustice [for un-
righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
1g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
1h) of lifeless things, ie sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
1i) a member of a guild, order, class

----------------one witness--------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


What are the two candlesticks?

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


"and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"


Candlesticks represent churches which are groups of Christians.







Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


so to add what we know:


Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two [anointed ones], AND the two [churches] standing before the God of the earth.

According to scripture, the two witnesses are two churches (candlesticks) AND two persons (olives trees). One witness is the two churches, the other witness is the two persons. Many believe it is Elijah and Enoch but who they are or aren't is another discussion.




When scripture refers to the two "olive trees" and we learn that olive trees represent "anointed ones" then we know these two olive trees are in fact two "anointed ones" which is simply two anointed people or persons...but there's more:


Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


Here only the two olive trees are called the two prophets. Prophets are individuals, in fact they are males. Two male prophets which are anointed by God to give prophetic messages.


Since its also scriptural fact that candlesticks are churches we then have this:


Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees [the two anointed prophets], and the two candlesticks [two churches] standing before the God of the earth.


Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


If you wish to speak of the two prophets which are killed by the antichrist/beast and are raised back to life by God, it is incorrect to refer to them as the "two witnesses" since the scriptures do not. They are referred to as one of the two witnesses, the two olive trees which are two anointed individuals ie: the two prophets.

some answers lie in the 1260 years and the sack cloth....we just need to figure them out

 

[Hone]

The bible does not say that. The two witnesses have 1260 days.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Sackcloth represents mourning.

1260 days is basically same as 42 months:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

what do days represent in prophecy ?

 

[ewq1938]

what do days represent in prophecy ?

In Revelation 11:3 days are days. It matches the 42 months which are months.