The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings
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Onan has nothing to do with "all forms of contraction" - he spilled his "seed" because he did not want to give his deceased brothers wife a child.
Gen 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
The above practice of "raising up seed to a dead brother" became the basis for Levirate Marriage as spelled out in:
Deu 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
Deu 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
Don't give up yer day job....
Gen 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
The above practice of "raising up seed to a dead brother" became the basis for Levirate Marriage as spelled out in:
Deu 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
Deu 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
Don't give up yer day job....
That isn't quite so, and I gave an example with respect to the passage of Onan, which reveals that contraception and masturbation are sin, hence the term "onanism", which reveals a sin that was not given as a "do not...". And there is wisdom behind this passage, because in just a few verses of scripture, as opposed to creating an entire series of commands of "do not..." related to all the forms of contraception that exist, even to this day that did not exist back then, this little passage covers it all. So yes, certain stories reveal traditions that must be kept to this day, one of which is the head covering, hence why Paul explained it and demanded it... it is obligatory. I have a study on the story of Onan here Onan, and the Sins of Contraception and Masturbation | Wisdom of God .
Hi Chris,
So because you say so it is so?
It is true that the Mishnah does not require it. It's a form of modesty, not a command. But even so, you're misapplying what Paul said in the NT. In the final analysis the woman's hair was given to her as a covering.
So many here are giving you great scriptures and Godly wisdom that you simply choose to ignore.
You may want to read and study Galatians. It's one of the best contrasts of following law and following grace in the NT.
Didn't Jesus say that if you are under law you have to obey it all. And if you miss in one part you've broken the whole law?
So you condemn yourself by your own words. You say this group of laws we obey and this group of laws we don't have to obey. You are condemning yourself by coming back under the law.
It does not matter who says it is so, whether me or John Doe, it is in the scriptures. If natural hair was itself the head covering that Paul conceded with, he would not then have offered another option to shave the woman if she so choose not to cover her head, for a woman with a shaven head is another symbol of marriage spoken of in the Law,
if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails (Deuteronomy 21:11-12 [NIV])
if indeed not covers her head a woman, and let her be shaven. If it is moreover shameful to a woman to be shaven or have short hair, let her cover her head. (1 Corinthians 11:6 [INTERLINEARIZED])*
So there are two options for a married woman, either wear the head covering, or shave your head. Because either of these are symbols of marriage, that a woman is "off the market". This is what Paul instructed the assemblies to do. If you do not do it, then you are in disobedience,
But if anyone thinks to be contentious, we do not have such a custom, nor the assemblies of God. (1 Corinthians 11:16 [ABP])
if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails (Deuteronomy 21:11-12 [NIV])
if indeed not covers her head a woman, and let her be shaven. If it is moreover shameful to a woman to be shaven or have short hair, let her cover her head. (1 Corinthians 11:6 [INTERLINEARIZED])*
So there are two options for a married woman, either wear the head covering, or shave your head. Because either of these are symbols of marriage, that a woman is "off the market". This is what Paul instructed the assemblies to do. If you do not do it, then you are in disobedience,
But if anyone thinks to be contentious, we do not have such a custom, nor the assemblies of God. (1 Corinthians 11:16 [ABP])
Onan has nothing to do with "all forms of contraction" - he spilled his "seed" because he did not want to give his deceased brothers wife a child.
Gen 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
The above practice of "raising up seed to a dead brother" became the basis for Levirate Marriage as spelled out in:
Deu 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
Deu 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
Don't give up yer day job....
Gen 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
The above practice of "raising up seed to a dead brother" became the basis for Levirate Marriage as spelled out in:
Deu 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
Deu 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
Don't give up yer day job....
However, if a man does not want to marry his brother’s wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, “My husband’s brother refuses to carry on his brother’s name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me.” (Deuteronomy 25:7 [NIV])
Hence why the Law does not require the death of a brother-in-law that refuses to give seed to his sister-in-law, but rather, gives her relief,
Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, “I do not want to marry her,” his brother’s widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, “This is what is done to the man who will not build up his brother’s family line.” That man’s line shall be known in Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled. (Deuteronomy 25:8-10 [NIV])
As such, the punishment of death inflicted on Onan was not because he refused to give seed, but because he still had sex with her, yet spilled his seed, hence contraception, which then became wicked and worthy of death. This is no different than "freeloading", taking advantage of a service, yet not paying for it. The same with contraception, which is engaging in sexual gratification without giving seed, which is nullifies the main purpose for the sexual act, for it is not just for enjoyment, but for reproduction, hence why the completion of every sexual act finishes with a man discharging "seed" that is intended to go into a woman.
Sexual gratification is a great pleasure that God has given man, but it must be done properly as he intended, otherwise it becomes wicked.
S
I hold to the head-covering position and believe that feminism has much to do with the modern church abandoning the practice, along with the influence of women ministers and other post-modern issues. However, I do not see this as disobedience if one does not want to veil themselves, although I am still studying our the issue.
In case you didn't see the link, I have a study on this issue here The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings | Wisdom of God .
Everything I have said is in scripture, now whether you want to believe or not, that is up to you. "God will judge the sexually immoral", as it is said somewhere, which includes sins of contraception and masturbation, which are contrary to the intention of why God created sex, so these are "sins", aka missing the mark of intention, against the body. If you want to continue doing such practices, then so be it,
Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy." (Revelation 22:11 [NIV])
Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy." (Revelation 22:11 [NIV])
W
Reading this makes me think back to when I visited a Synagogue in Glasgow
... visiting men had to cover their heads ... there was no such rule for women
so, how did this whole "women are to cover up" enter Christianity?
PS are ALL of your clothes made from one fabric only? (no piece of clothing of mixed fabrics?)
"'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material"
... visiting men had to cover their heads ... there was no such rule for women
so, how did this whole "women are to cover up" enter Christianity?
PS are ALL of your clothes made from one fabric only? (no piece of clothing of mixed fabrics?)
"'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material"
Of course, the command against shatnez. I affirm obeying this command in the study of the tallit with the tzizit, for the tallit cannot be woven of mixed fabrics, inclusive of all other garments, The Tzitzit, the Command to Wear the Fringes | Wisdom of God .
D
I'll show you the difference with what you did right here.
You're point is I am this:
These people are grumblers and faultfinders
Which, of course makes you so much superior, because, hey, I'm doing it wrong, and you are perfect.
(BTW, Jude doesn't have chapters. It's short enough not to use chapters.)
BUT, in context,
[FONT="]3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,[d]serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.12 These are hidden reefs[e] at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted;13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.[/FONT]
In context? You are the one who doesn't believe in what Christ did, but are still pretending you keep the law. You are the perverting God's grace into sensual desire. (Why else must women dress like that, but you don't have to dress any which way?) You are the one rejecting authority. You are the one blaspheming. (Not God's will. MY will!) You're the hidden reef at the love feast, feeding yourself, waterless cloud, fruitless tree, wild waves, and wandering stars. You are the grumbler, malcontent, and loud boaster.
Amazing what context does, isn't it?
You're point is I am this:
These people are grumblers and faultfinders
Which, of course makes you so much superior, because, hey, I'm doing it wrong, and you are perfect.
(BTW, Jude doesn't have chapters. It's short enough not to use chapters.)
BUT, in context,
[FONT="]3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,[d]serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.12 These are hidden reefs[e] at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted;13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.[/FONT]
In context? You are the one who doesn't believe in what Christ did, but are still pretending you keep the law. You are the perverting God's grace into sensual desire. (Why else must women dress like that, but you don't have to dress any which way?) You are the one rejecting authority. You are the one blaspheming. (Not God's will. MY will!) You're the hidden reef at the love feast, feeding yourself, waterless cloud, fruitless tree, wild waves, and wandering stars. You are the grumbler, malcontent, and loud boaster.
Amazing what context does, isn't it?
