The Ultimate Condemnation of Believers Who Continue to Sin

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Aug 15, 2009
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#81
This has been addressed numerous times with you but for the sake of the viewers - I'll answer. I also understand that everyone that doesn't agree with your view of scriptures is labeled a false teacher by you. We get that part.

As for your 2 Peter 2 ...here is the answer to that...that has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.

The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..

then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.

Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell.

Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us. Click on the link below for a thorough look at this:
Twice dead
From Hard Sayings of the Bible:

Christians recognize that before people know Christ they are in bad shape, for they live under the judgment of God, who has commanded all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. It is therefore not hard to see how Christ enables people to escape from the corruption of the world, since this corruption is tied up with their pre-Christian life. Nor do most of us lack for examples of people who have again been "entangled" in the world after they knew Christ; we may even know some who after initially turning to Christ have later totally rejected the gospel in word as well as in action (although most of our "backslidden" brothers and sisters would still confess to the truth of the gospel, even if it is playing no active role in their lives). Yet 2 Peter 2:20 does more than make these common (if sad) observations. It states that such people are "worse off" than before their initial conversion. How can this be the case? Aren't they still Christian even if they are backslidden? Will they not go to heaven despite their sinful life? And isn't this "better" than their original state? Isn't salvation by faith, not works? What 2 Peter says appears incompatible with our concept of a God of grace and mercy.
When we read this verse in context, we recognize that the people being discussed are the false teachers whom Peter opposes. They were once orthodox Christians who were "cleansed from [their] past sins" (2 Peter 1:9), or "washed" (2 Peter 2:22). They had come to know Jesus Christ, and this was a personal knowledge that released them from "the corruption of the world," or, in Pauline language, the power of sin over them had been broken. And they had come to know "the way of righteousness" (meaning a righteous lifestyle; 2 Peter 2:21). It is not that in some way they had been taught poorly or had not experienced the power of God freeing them from the world and its desires. They had experienced all of this. They were in every way righteous and orthodox.
But now they have done exactly what they are enticing others to do (2 Peter 2:18-19). They have claimed freedom, but their freedom is a freedom to live according to their desires. These desires have mastered them. They have rejected "the way of righteousness" or "the sacred command" (perhaps the teaching of Jesus or even the Old Testament standard of righteousness). They are back doing what they did before they were converted, but now they are claiming Christian justification for it.
Peter says that such people are worse off than before they were converted. He takes his words from the story in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26 about the person cleansed from a demon who ends up in a worse state because the demon returns with seven others. The implication is that the person is in more bondage than before. Yet although verbally 2 Peter is closer to the statement about the demonized person, we are reminded even more of Luke 12:47-48, in which Jesus says that the person who does not know his master's will is beaten with few blows, while the one knowing it and still disobeying is beaten with many blows.
Hard Sayings of the Bible.

You don't research commentaries, do you? Why is that? When you post quotes, you post nobodies websites & videos. NO COMMENTARIES.


 
Aug 15, 2009
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#82
is this the type of thing you receive your inspiration from?

and you say it is from 'a prophet'?

just screams false to me

in so many ways
You mean kinda like Joseph's prophecy about the church being the "Benjamin Generation"?..... now, that screams false to me.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#83
You don't research commentaries, do you? Why is that? When you post quotes, you post nobodies websites & videos. NO COMMENTARIES.

Actually I have a plethora of commentaries at my disposal and I do read them but they are men like we are and they are not scripture. It is their own personal beliefs just like every other believer in the body of Christ.

You could read a bunch of commentaries that are all from the same group of believers - like Armenians which all believe in losing salvation and so they are going to give all their views on any subject - all based on their pre-conceived bias. All these commentaries are going to say the exact same thing. Funny about that eh?

Given that fact I still read different commentaries though as I pray for guidance from the Father as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us.

I believe it's best to read the word in the light of the very clear finished work of Christ and then when any obscure passages come by - we need to not throw out the clear word of God to try and make it fit that obscure scripture. Just wait on the Lord and the Holy Spirit will give us the understanding of it based on the true grace of Christ.
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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#84
Actually I have a plethora of commentaries at my disposal and I do read them but they are men like we are and they are not scripture. It is their own personal beliefs just like every other believer in the body of Christ.

You could read a bunch of commentaries that are all from the same group of believers - like Armenians which all believe in losing salvation and so they are going to give all their views on any subject - all based on their pre-conceived bias. All these commentaries are going to say the exact same thing. Funny about that eh?

Given that fact I still read different commentaries though as I pray for guidance from the Father as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us.

I believe it's best to read the word in the light of the very clear finished work of Christ and then when any obscure passages come by - we need to not throw out the clear word of God to try and make it fit that obscure scripture. Just wait on the Lord and the Holy Spirit will give us the understanding of it based on the true grace of Christ.
A very poor excuse for not finding a commentary that agrees with you. Is it that hard to find a Hypergrace commentary? What about a WOF commentary? :p:rolleyes:
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#85
A very poor excuse for not finding a commentary that agrees with you. Is it that hard to find a Hypergrace commentary? What about a WOF commentary? :p:rolleyes:

God bless you. He loves you deeply! All is well!...:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#86
You think I'm just merely joking? Quote a real commentary that agrees with you..... right now.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#87
If there is no assurance of salvation, then there is no salvation at all!

Believers cannot be condemned - simple as that.

You were not saved - and adopted into the family of God - by anything that you did.
Look at Eph 2:8-10 as an excellent summary verse.
Furthermore works - good or bad - cannot make or break your salvation once you are saved.
Look at Gal 3:1-9 and then keep reading until the end of the chapter.
(if you need more context read the entire book)

Good works could not save you before and good works cannot save you now.
Sin, once covered by the blood of Christ, cannot separate you from God otherwise the blood of Christ is ineffectual.
If the blood of Christ is ineffectual in this situation then there is no salvation.

Instead look at Christ.
Do you love Him?
Do you want to follow Him?
Then do it!
You are not subject to the law and you are not limited by the law.
Instead you are empowered to all the good works that have been prepared for us before the beginning of time!
Lift your eyes and broaden your horizons!
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#88
You are not subject to the law and you are not limited by the law.
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:7-8 (KJV, MBM)
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#89
You mean kinda like Joseph's prophecy about the church being the "Benjamin Generation"?..... now, that screams false to me.

stephen...I start to think you may have a problem even getting along with yourself

I have yet to see ONE positive or uplifting post from you

every post you make seems to be negative and condemnatory

who asked you anyway...I certainly never would because I know how nasty you will reply

condemnatory so called 'prophets' do not speak for God...read the OT...God always offered reconciliation to the worst sinners

when you read a so called prophecy that is nothing but negative and condemnatory, you can see judgement without mercy

I do understand how that does appeal to some people around here
 
Oct 10, 2015
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#90
These verses have been on my mind of late. They are probably in the top 4 or 5 posted here.
Why didn't Jesus "know" them? They were doing apparently good works. Even in His Name.
Hi ... Do you know who W. E. Vine is?
He says in his famous Expository of Bible Words:
"I never knew you" means "I never approved of you".
And yes, the Holy Lord God does NOT approve of many so-called Christians.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#91
Hi ... Do you know who W. E. Vine is?
He says in his famous Expository of Bible Words:
"I never knew you" means "I never approved of you".
And yes, the Holy Lord God does NOT approve of many so-called Christians.
God does not approve of anyone who substitutes their own actions for His.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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#93
If there is no assurance of salvation, then there is no salvation at all!
Believers cannot be condemned - simple as that.
Yes, this is very wonderful indeed ... if only it was certainly true!

Please tell us ... why are there 100+ NT verses ...
warning church people about falling away, etc. and losing salvation?

That's all I wish to know! ... Thank you in advance.

And your answer/excuse will be ... They are taken out of context, misunderstood, etc.
Again, I say ... Thank you in advance.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#94
Hi ... Do you know who W. E. Vine is?
He says in his famous Expository of Bible Words:
"I never knew you" means "I never approved of you".
And yes, the Holy Lord God does NOT approve of many so-called Christians.
This Greek word for " I never knew them"..is the same Greek word that Jesus used in describing His sheep in John 10:27

Those in Matthew 7:15-23 were false prophets - Jesus Himself told us in Matt. 7:15 who He was talking about. To try to make it say it is real Christians is not correct by any stretch of the imagination.

Jesus never said " I never knew you once before but not now"...He said "I never knew you at all "...big difference.

John 10:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;


Here is what W.E. Vine has to say about the Greek word "to know" - ginosko

[FONT="Gentium" !important]
ginōskō
[/FONT]

Usage Notes: "to know, perceive"

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

"to be known of God;" here the "knowing" suggests approval and bears the meaning "to be approved;"

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

We are known and approved by God because we are in Christ as believers - sealed with the Holy Spirit forever.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

We need to be teaching the grace of Christ so that we can grow up in Christ. God does not "un-son" His beloved children. He does discipline them which shows that we belong to Him.
 
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Oct 10, 2015
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#95
when you read a so called prophecy that is nothing but negative and condemnatory,
you can see judgement without mercy
I'm sorry, but you just do not see YET that God's judgment upon America is NOW guaranteed.
However, He has promised to protect His true and obedient believers who know Him!
Praise the Lord!
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#96
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:7-8 (KJV, MBM)
Hey Grace, you're a carnal mind. LMBO! :D
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#97
If there is no assurance of salvation, then there is no salvation at all!

Believers cannot be condemned - simple as that.

You need to read the whole New Testament, not just your favorite verses. I would suggest Hebrews.
You were not saved - and adopted into the family of God - by anything that you did.
Yes I was. When the gospel was offered to me, the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins & witnessed to me the Gospel was true. He showed me I needed to repent & accept Christ. Basically, God did everything to hep me get saved..... but the decision & commitment was mine. The commitment comes from me to follow through with the Holy Spirit's leading.
Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Furthermore works - good or bad - cannot make or break your salvation once you are saved.
He who lives in sin is the servant of sin. You cannot have two masters.

Good works could not save you before and good works cannot save you now.
Sin, once covered by the blood of Christ, cannot separate you from God otherwise the blood of Christ is ineffectual.
From the front of the Bible to the back, man has free will to do what he wants. New Testament judgement is going to be more harsh than the Old, because rejecting Christ will bring judgement, regardless of being saved or not.

Instead look at Christ.
Do you love Him?
Do you want to follow Him?
Then do it!
You are not subject to the law and you are not limited by the law.
Instead you are empowered to all the good works that have been prepared for us before the beginning of time!
Lift your eyes and broaden your horizons!
Empowered or not, submission to Christ's authority is paramount. And NO, no amount of power can keep you saved if you want to leave. Nowhere in the New Testament does it SAY God forces you to stay, and no, not every christian wants to. In the great falling away, they will leave by the millions.

Now, before anyone gets riled up & say there's people in churches everywhere, when you reject the truth of the New Testament & believe hypergrace, that is rejecting Christ. He who rejects the Word rejects its author. Churches will be full when Jesus comes, & many will still be full when He leaves.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#98
stephen...I start to think you may have a problem even getting along with yourself

I have yet to see ONE positive or uplifting post from you

every post you make seems to be negative and condemnatory

who asked you anyway...I certainly never would because I know how nasty you will reply

condemnatory so called 'prophets' do not speak for God...read the OT...God always offered reconciliation to the worst sinners

when you read a so called prophecy that is nothing but negative and condemnatory, you can see judgement without mercy

I do understand how that does appeal to some people around here
When people believe heresy, don't expect me to say it's ok.
Jude 1:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And of some have compassion, making a difference: [SUP]23 [/SUP]And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Nowhere does it say pulling people outta the fire would be pretty.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#99
As we can see when we read scriptures "in context" that Jude is talking about two different groups of people in Jude 1:22-23 because he continues "in context" to say this...concerning the Christians.....verse 24-25 is concerning Christians.

It is God that will keep us Christians from stumbling and He will make us to stand in His presence of glory - blameless - because of Jesus that is in us in our new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.


Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

[SUP]25 [/SUP] to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Here is that "other group" that verses 22-23 are talking about.

Jude 1:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]18 [/SUP] that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."

[SUP]19 [/SUP] These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
 
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Oct 10, 2015
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It is God that will keep us Christians from stumbling
and He will make us to stand in His presence of glory - blameless -
Okay, thanks for pointing out that we do NOT have free will.
THe "Christians" above refers to those who have determined
to actually live righteously by walking in the Spirit, and etc.