The Ultimate Condemnation of Believers Who Continue to Sin

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 10, 2015
544
6
0
#61
"I never knew you" (Matt 7:23) ...these people were not believers...
wait a minute, let us finish the verse.
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:23 (ESV2011)
wait a minute, let us focus on the beginning of the 3 verses (Matt 7:21-23).

These poor people were rejected because ...
they did NOT do the will of the Father!!! (Matt 7:21).

Hello ... We had better figure out what ALL of the will of the Father is!
 
Last edited:
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#62
See? This is EXACTLY what Im talking about. Turning the very biblical teaching "sin leads to death" to "living under the law". As if God never wanted us to follow the law. This is why I cant agree with the hyper grace theology. Clearly God wants us to obey Him. It is written in both the OT and NT, "Those who love me will obey my commandments". And believing in His grace is not His only commandment.
God never expected anyone to be anything but a complete failure at following the Law. He wasn't surprised in the least.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#63
From a prophet recently ...

“I am done with the lukewarm church. She beautifiesherself like lipstick on a pig.
She is better off drawing a steaming hot bath
and scrubbing off the impurities that cling to her.
She has become ugly to me. She is no bride. She has become a laughingstock.

I will cleanse her once again from her iniquity so thatwhat is left has been cleansed
and made ready for the day I give her to My son,
her groom for all eternity.
He will have the bride that He deserves and nothing less.
All else will burn in the lake of fire
.”

is this the type of thing you receive your inspiration from?

and you say it is from 'a prophet'?

just screams false to me

in so many ways
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#64
From a prophet recently ...

“I am done with the lukewarm church. She beautifiesherself like lipstick on a pig.
She is better off drawing a steaming hot bath
and scrubbing off the impurities that cling to her.
She has become ugly to me. She is no bride. She has become a laughingstock.

I will cleanse her once again from her iniquity so thatwhat is left has been cleansed
and made ready for the day I give her to My son,
her groom for all eternity.
He will have the bride that He deserves and nothing less.
All else will burn in the lake of fire
.”
Wow this just makes me sad.

Jesus has a bride and to say otherwise denies the very truth of scripture.
The lukewarm church is the self-righteous church, no lipstick needed she already thinks she is doing great!
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#65
wait a minute, let us focus on the beginning of the 3 verses (Matt 7:21-23).

These poor people were rejected because ...
they did NOT do the will of the Father!!! (Matt 7:21).

Hello ... We had better figure out what ALL of the will of the Father is!

Notice that in Matt 7:19-33..Jesus said:

"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...( Jesus never said " I used to know you once."..He said I NEVER knew you at all...).

Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.

John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)

[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him. It is His fruit that bears in and through us.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast
.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#66
wait a minute, let us focus on the beginning of the 3 verses (Matt 7:21-23).

These poor people were rejected because ...
they did NOT do the will of the Father!!! (Matt 7:21).

Hello ... We had better figure out what ALL of the will of the Father is!

Here is something else to think about when it comes to "doing the will of the Father".

I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.

1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40

2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21

3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )

4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18

5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16

6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9

7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5

According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....

How foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the "will of the Father" for salvation in being with the Lord when we die. If we do not factor in the completed work of Christ for our salvation then we will come up with all kinds of man-made "works" we must do to "help" Jesus with our salvation.

What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not
saved without factoring in just what is the "will of the Father" for salvation .

The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9

The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
8,728
113
#67
wait a minute, let us finish the verse.
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:23 (ESV2011)
These verses have been on my mind of late. They are probably in the top 4 or 5 posted here. Why didn't Jesus "know" them? They were doing apparently good works. Even in His Name.

I think the key here is in what IS NOT SAID by those he sends away.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

They THOUGHT they WERE doing THE will of the Father. Good works. Check. In the Name of Jesus. Check.

They DID NOT say " But Lord, we accepted You, and the Sacrifice of Your Blood on the cross, and Your resurrection." NO they RELIED on THEIR work.
James 2:10, and other passages say this:
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Since we KNOW all have sinned, thus breaking the law, these people who rely on THEIR work, instead of Jesus' FINISHED work for Salvation, are sent away.

So what IS the Will of the Father. Well Jesus Himself tells us what the Will of the Father is, as well as other writers of Scripture.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

This is why day after day those who rely SOLELY on the blood of Christ come here and plead, cajole, rebuke, yes, even argue, IN TOTAL LOVE, that if you rely on YOUR works to get, OR MAINTAIN, your salvation ,you need to repent and come to rest in our beloved, incredible, sweet, patient, and soooo much more LOVING Savior, JESUS CHRIST!
 
Last edited:

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
#68
God never expected anyone to be anything but a complete failure at following the Law. He wasn't surprised in the least.
Yup, but that does not mean following the law is not necessary.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#70
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


They DID NOT say " But Lord, we accepted You, and the Sacrifice of Your Blood on the cross, and Your resurrection." NO they RELIED on THEIR work.
To take this: "depart from Me you workers of lawlessness",

and turn it to this: "they relied on their work"

is twisting the passage.

Their work was lawlessness. The passage clearly says, "workers of lawlessness". Let me say it again. Their work was lawlessness.

we try so hard to squeeze "easy believism" into every passage, even when it is just not there.

The Messiah told these people to depart, (who thought they were real believers), because they were "workers of lawlessness".
How much plainer can He say it?
 

20

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2015
351
9
18
#71
The will of God is our sanctification, KJV 1Thessalonians4;3-5, 3. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification,that ye should abstain from fornication;4. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;5. Not in the lust of concupiscence even as the Gentiles which know not God.; The will of God is to preach Gospel to the World as the Jesus did, KJV John17;18,18. As thou hast send me into the World, even so have I also send them into the World.; KJVMatthew28;19 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, babtizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost;
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#72
wait a minute, let us focus on the beginning of the 3 verses (Matt 7:21-23).

These poor people were rejected because ...
they did NOT do the will of the Father!!! (Matt 7:21).

Hello ... We had better figure out what ALL of the will of the Father is!
good idea.
 
Last edited:
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#73
To take this: "depart from Me you workers of lawlessness",

and turn it to this: "they relied on their work"

is twisting the passage.

Their work was lawlessness. The passage clearly says, "workers of lawlessness". Let me say it again. Their work was lawlessness.

we try so hard to squeeze "easy believism" into every passage, even when it is just not there.

The Messiah told these people to depart, (who thought they were real believers), because they were "workers of lawlessness".
How much plainer can He say it?
How were they lawless?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#75
To take this: "depart from Me you workers of lawlessness",

and turn it to this: "they relied on their work"

is twisting the passage.

Their work was lawlessness. The passage clearly says, "workers of lawlessness". Let me say it again. Their work was lawlessness.

we try so hard to squeeze "easy believism" into every passage, even when it is just not there.

The Messiah told these people to depart, (who thought they were real believers), because they were "workers of lawlessness".
How much plainer can He say it?
Everyone will call Jesus Lord when they see Him - no one makes Jesus Lord as He is Lord.
I showed you in another post that "lawlessness" is the word used to describe the unrighteous and that is not what believers in Christ as called. I will do it once more for the viewers.

Plus given the fact that the "context" Jesus is talking about false prophets ( Matt. 7:15 ) which are not true believers in Christ.

It is vitally important to read all scripture in context as well as filter it through the cross and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ or we will be mixing up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and Jesus said we cannot put new wine in old wine skins.

The word for "lawlessness" in Matthew 7:23 is the exact same word used in 1 Corinthians 6:14 as "unrighteousness" which is used to describe
"unbelievers".

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believers ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? ( same word here as in Matt. 7:23 for "lawlessness" ) what communion hath light with darkness?

The believer is being contrasted with the unbeliever and this is where your Matt. 7:23 "lawlessness" person is slotted in Paul.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#76
in my opinion, it is people who verbally claim the Messiah as their King, but don't want any of His rules.
Nope. Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity with your own activity. Where we see lawlessness is in those who set the Law loose from its moorings in the activity of God by substituting their own activity for His.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#77
Everyone will call Jesus Lord when they see Him - no one makes Jesus Lord as He is Lord.
I showed you in another post that "lawlessness" is the word used to describe the unrighteous and that is not what believers in Christ as called. I will do it once more for the viewers.

Plus given the fact that the "context" Jesus is talking about false prophets ( Matt. 7:15 ) which are not true believers in Christ.

It is vitally important to read all scripture in context as well as filter it through the cross and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ or we will be mixing up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and Jesus said we cannot put new wine in old wine skins.

The word for "lawlessness" in Matthew 7:23 is the exact same word used in 1 Corinthians 6:14 as "unrighteousness" which is used to describe
"unbelievers".

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believers ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? ( same word here as in Matt. 7:23 for "lawlessness" ) what communion hath light with darkness?

The believer is being contrasted with the unbeliever and this is where your Matt. 7:23 "lawlessness" person is slotted in Paul.
These people claimed to be believers, but their "lawlessness" was the evidence that their belief was not real.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#78
Nope. Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity with your own activity. Where we see lawlessness is in those who set the Law loose from its moorings in the activity of God by substituting their own activity for His.
not how I see it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#79
These people claimed to be believers, but their "lawlessness" was the evidence that their belief was not real.

Their lawlessness was their "unrighteousness" just like people that try to keep the law for righteousness.