theistic evolution - don't try this at home

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pckts

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It happens sometimes. I will not base my world view on the KJV. Thats my point.
My point is you believe you can interpret the Greek better than scholars throughout history, and the reason your interpretation differs is because you are forcing it to match what science tells you, rather than the context of the scripture itself.

I guess you think you and the few who interpret it the way you do are right, and it's with the light of science that this interpretation became possible. It's a deception and the reason no one else came to these conclusions is because they weren't looking at the scripture with these blinders on.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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Science is throughout the bible anyone who Denys that is denying a Creator of science, anything that is a natural physical object "not made by man" has a science design to it that is of a fact about God.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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My point is you believe you can interpret the Greek better than scholars throughout history, and the reason your interpretation differs is because you are forcing it to match what science tells you, rather than the context of the scripture itself.

I guess you think you and the few who interpret it the way you do are right, and it's with the light of science that this interpretation became possible. It's a deception and the reason no one else came to these conclusions is because they weren't looking at the scripture with these blinders on.
Its strange that on one hand you trust scholars so much and on the other hand you suspect them of various intentional lies.

And what scholars do you have in mind, through history?
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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Its strange that on one hand you trust scholars so much and on the other hand you suspect them of various intentional lies.

And what scholars do you have in mind, through history?
How come you when you rely on Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in you to understand & apply His words on other issues, but fail to do so with the evolution theory?

You have to address the scripture for why we are saying that you are believing a false science, but you don't. You just claim you do not read the meaning as the same as such and yet say nothing for what it does mean instead. You do come off as having more reliance on the words of men in that false science than the Word of God to see it as a false science.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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How come you when you rely on Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in you to understand & apply His words on other issues, but fail to do so with the evolution theory?

You have to address the scripture for why we are saying that you are believing a false science, but you don't. You just claim you do not read the meaning as the same as such and yet say nothing for what it does mean instead. You do come off as having more reliance on the words of men in that false science than the Word of God to see it as a false science.
you only call it false because you don't believe in it,

the earth was void and formless, does that say anything about the earth's core and how that came about.

God made man from dirt, did God give the details on how He designed the human body. And as well all kinds of things mentioned none of it is spelled out in detail.

Not one complete detail about the process of creating the actual body of man, or animals, plants trees etc. is in the bible.

no one even knows when God created humans with a egg and a tadpole, God didn't create you from the dirt or bone but a egg and tadpole.

yet you know that life did not form in stages of evolution.

I think to many people think people who believe in evolution automatically believe what Darwin wrote about it, I'm not one who believes what that man said about it at all.
 
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pckts

Guest
Its strange that on one hand you trust scholars so much and on the other hand you suspect them of various intentional lies.

And what scholars do you have in mind, through history?
The scholars I have in mind are those that proclaim the divinity of Christ and have the Holy Spirit in them. The scholars I suspect of various intentional lies are those that do not proclaim the divinity of Christ, give a new-age spin on who Christ was, and/or are members of secret societies.

Here is an example of a scholar I suspect of various intentional lies:



Rare letter in which Charles Darwin confesses to being an atheist is set to sell for $90,000 | Daily Mail Online

It's very easy to discern, and I can teach you how, but the lessons only come in English.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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How come you when you rely on Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in you to understand & apply His words on other issues, but fail to do so with the evolution theory?

You have to address the scripture for why we are saying that you are believing a false science, but you don't. You just claim you do not read the meaning as the same as such and yet say nothing for what it does mean instead. You do come off as having more reliance on the words of men in that false science than the Word of God to see it as a false science.
So far noone of you quoted anything from Scriptures that would be against the theistic evolution, so so far I have nothing to "understand" ;-)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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The scholars I have in mind are those that proclaim the divinity of Christ and have the Holy Spirit in them. The scholars I suspect of various intentional lies are those that do not proclaim the divinity of Christ, give a new-age spin on who Christ was, and/or are members of secret societies.

Here is an example of a scholar I suspect of various intentional lies:



Rare letter in which Charles Darwin confesses to being an atheist is set to sell for $90,000 | Daily Mail Online

It's very easy to discern, and I can teach you how, but the lessons only come in English.
These arguments are quite useles. Everyone can have his favourite scholars and scholars he will not agree with. Its OK and I do not know what to change about it.

Lets get back to the Bible.

You can use whatever Bible version you want, but me too.
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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So far noone of you quoted anything from Scriptures that would be against the theistic evolution, so so far I have nothing to "understand" ;-)
Kind of hard to take you seriously when you do not have an answer to Jesus's own words validating scripture.

You had accused me of having a closed mind, but yours is closed to His own words.

I can only suggest that if you genuinely want to see the truth in His words, then you need to ask Jesus to help you to see if you desire to represent Him and the truth in His words in being His disciple in seeking His glory.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Kind of hard to take you seriously when you do not have an answer to Jesus's own words validating scripture.

You had accused me of having a closed mind, but yours is closed to His own words.

I can only suggest that if you genuinely want to see the truth in His words, then you need to ask Jesus to help you to see if you desire to represent Him and the truth in His words in being His disciple in seeking His glory.
Again, no quote. Just your words.
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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Again, no quote. Just your words.
Why quote scripture when you claim you see nothing? Not playing your game, brother. You either ask Jesus or you don't want to know the truth.
 
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pckts

Guest
These arguments are quite useles. Everyone can have his favourite scholars and scholars he will not agree with. Its OK and I do not know what to change about it.

Lets get back to the Bible.

You can use whatever Bible version you want, but me too.
My argument that Charles Darwin denied the divinity of The Bible and our Savior is not a useless argument.

I only agree with Scholars who acknowledge Christ for who he is, otherwise, what do they know and why should we trust them?

I'm not telling you the Greek is inferior to the KJV, I'm telling you bending the scripture to fit false science undermines The Truth of Greek scripture.

Don't turn this into a KJV only argument to avoid acknowledging the point I am making, the greek scripture is equally valid to the KJV when it is interpreting in the context it is written.

The father of your evolution was an agent of Satan.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Why quote scripture when you claim you see nothing? Not playing your game, brother. You either ask Jesus or you don't want to know the truth.
Well, if you do not want to talk about Scriptures, I do not know what to talk about. Your "seeing" can be blindness and my "seeing" can be blindness.

If you do not have any clear and explicit Scriptures and only imply it from some view or possibility, its not what should convince anybody.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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My argument that Charles Darwin denied the divinity of The Bible and our Savior is not a useless argument.

I only agree with Scholars who acknowledge Christ for who he is, otherwise, what do they know and why should we trust them?

I'm not telling you the Greek is inferior to the KJV, I'm telling you bending the scripture to fit false science undermines The Truth of Greek scripture.

Don't turn this into a KJV only argument to avoid acknowledging the point I am making, the greek scripture is equally valid to the KJV when it is interpreting in the context it is written.

The father of your evolution was an agent of Satan.
I am not turning anything and I would be glad if you stop talking about the KJV, satan, devil etc. Again, its useless.

If you have clear, explicit Scriptures, post it, if you have just "traditional opinions", I am not convinced.
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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Those three quotes seem to be the same, so I will quote just one example.

---
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth reptiles having life, and winged creatures flying above the earth in the firmament of heaven, and it was so.
And God made great whales, and every living reptile, which the waters brought forth according to their kinds, and every creature that flies with wings according to its kind, and God saw that they were good. And God blessed them saying, Increase and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let the creatures that fly be multiplied on the earth."

---

When I try not to add anything and just read the text, I see that the waters brought forth various [kinds, species of] creatures (evolution, natural laws) and that it was God who made them (theistic).
And after that happened, God blessed them to multiply.
Okay, trofimus. I apologize. I missed this post.

Are you insinuating that the waters brought forth those living things is how God said and made them?

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth reptiles having life, and winged creatures flying above the earth in the firmament of heaven, and it was so.
And God made great whales, and every living reptile, which the waters brought forth according to their kinds, and every creature that flies with wings according to its kind, and God saw that they were good.


How does that work for land animals? Not exactly following the evolution time table now is it? God did not bring forth land animals by having the waters bring them forth, right? And man was created out of the dust.

I guess I better see what other replies I had missed of yours.
 
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pckts

Guest
I am not turning anything and I would be glad if you stop talking about the KJV, satan, devil etc. Again, its useless.

If you have clear, explicit Scriptures, post it, if you have just "traditional opinions", I am not convinced.
"traditional opinions" are those that don't agree with modern science, so I can't post anything you will be interested in.:rolleyes:

If you want to ignore everything I have to say, we regrettably can't talk anymore.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Why quote scripture when you claim you see nothing? Not playing your game, brother. You either ask Jesus or you don't want to know the truth.
Because your view is a patented truth and what you see, everyone must see even if you need to change the verse to say what you want it to say, like:

Bible:
Earth brought forth animals according to their kinds.

Your version:
Every animal reproduces only in his kind "borders".

Sorry, not in the Bible so there is nothing to see.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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"traditional opinions" are those that don't agree with modern science, so I can't post anything you will be interested in.:rolleyes:

If you want to ignore everything I have to say, we regrettably can't talk anymore.
Yes, if you do not have any biblical proof, we should not talk anymore, because it leads just to words exchange, pictures downloaded from internet etc and to nothing about the topic "Bible discussion".
 
Sep 14, 2017
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Rom 3:4 says "let God be true, and every man a liar"

If christians believe their Bibles like they say they do, we wouldn't be posting in this thread right now would we?
I remember way back then, when christians has something called standards.
Obviously some here need to go back to the old paths when nothing but believing God & His word mattered.
Yeah, good times.
 
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pckts

Guest
Yes, if you do not have any biblical proof, we should not talk anymore, because it leads just to words exchange, pictures downloaded from internet etc and to nothing about the topic "Bible discussion".
Alright let's start with the order of this:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The order of the physical universe being created is not compatible with evolution, the order life is created is not compatible with evolution.

Then we have this:


Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man being created from dust, rather than from the prototype of an ape-thing.

Then we have this:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


God creates the Woman from the Man's rib.



So here are the clear explicit scripture that contradict evolution. If you dismiss them because there are English, knowing English is my only language, I would like to know why you dismiss them and your reasoning? I'd also like to know why you are asking me to provide you with english verses, when we both know your little plan is to dismiss them?
 
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