Thank you, Enow for pointing to an error in my statements.
And Thank you both Enow and Wolfwint for asking for the biblical proof of my claim that death was functional prior to Adam's sin. (I'll also re-attach the other claim that it was also implemented by God, prior to and independent of Adam sinning)
My erroneous statement was "the bible doesn't say that Adam's sin brought death to animals". Death to an animal was at least an indirect almost immediate outcome of Adam's sin, biblically because of the following:
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. <--unless someone wants to argue that Adam and Eve didn't have skin until then.. lol
Otherwise I think it's safe to say that some animals died in the process of those coats of skins being made.
And that's not even mentioning the death brought on by the curses, etc.
To be more accurate, I should have said something along the lines of “I also don’t see a clear biblical statement that death was the original and only reason that animals die.” We (bible believers) often assume it is.
But before we get distracted trying to argue about that, let me explain why I asked about death in people vs. animals vs. plants. (which leads to the biblical proof)
If death is death, no matter whether it is a plant , animal, or human body… then proving it in one proves it in the all the others. If death is different in each grouping, then it can still be proven that death was active (at least in one group) prior to sin.
And the proof is in Genesis 1 (which is prior to even the mention of the tree of knowledge of good and evil).
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Did you see it? (I posted it in context for those who want to find it before it is explained)
It’s in verses 29 and 30. God gave every herb as meat for man (and beast).
Have you ever eaten (or watched someone eat) a small onion or a bean sprout? Probably.
Have you ever eaten the same small onion or bean sprout without killing it? No.
That is death built right into the creation/life structure and put there by God’s own mouth, as part of a sinless system.
And if you need another example, or don’t believe that “death” is applicable to plants, consider what Jesus said….
John_12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
And Thank you both Enow and Wolfwint for asking for the biblical proof of my claim that death was functional prior to Adam's sin. (I'll also re-attach the other claim that it was also implemented by God, prior to and independent of Adam sinning)
My erroneous statement was "the bible doesn't say that Adam's sin brought death to animals". Death to an animal was at least an indirect almost immediate outcome of Adam's sin, biblically because of the following:
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. <--unless someone wants to argue that Adam and Eve didn't have skin until then.. lol
Otherwise I think it's safe to say that some animals died in the process of those coats of skins being made. And that's not even mentioning the death brought on by the curses, etc.
To be more accurate, I should have said something along the lines of “I also don’t see a clear biblical statement that death was the original and only reason that animals die.” We (bible believers) often assume it is.
But before we get distracted trying to argue about that, let me explain why I asked about death in people vs. animals vs. plants. (which leads to the biblical proof)
If death is death, no matter whether it is a plant , animal, or human body… then proving it in one proves it in the all the others. If death is different in each grouping, then it can still be proven that death was active (at least in one group) prior to sin.
And the proof is in Genesis 1 (which is prior to even the mention of the tree of knowledge of good and evil).
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Did you see it? (I posted it in context for those who want to find it before it is explained)
It’s in verses 29 and 30. God gave every herb as meat for man (and beast).
Have you ever eaten (or watched someone eat) a small onion or a bean sprout? Probably.
Have you ever eaten the same small onion or bean sprout without killing it? No.
That is death built right into the creation/life structure and put there by God’s own mouth, as part of a sinless system.
And if you need another example, or don’t believe that “death” is applicable to plants, consider what Jesus said….
John_12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby