Theology—beneficial or source of endless debating?

[Amanuensis]

Theology was designed for institutions of learning, not for ordinary Christians. It originated from the Scholasticism of the Catholic church, but continued with the Protestants, and then with the Evangelicals. Gradually it became almost automatic for pastors to go to seminaries (just as priests were required to attend seminaries) in order to be "academically qualified" to preach.

The issue of "gifts and calling" was more or less set aside. But that is not how the New Testament pattern was set up. Jesus and the apostles avoided the rabbinic schools altogether (even Paul set aside his theological background after his conversion, being taught directly by Christ). Churches were to have elders who would teach faithful men sound Bible doctrine, with the Holy Spirit as the divine Teacher. But all that changed shortly after the passing of the apostles.

However it became the standard operating procedure for churches to have pastors attend seminaries and receive academic degrees. Today most churches want their pastors to have a Master of Theology degree (at the very least) to even be considered for a "job". Theology does lock in its adherents to systems of interpretation used by their denominations. For example, Wayne Grudem's theology is Calvinistic, so those reading his book will be influenced in that direction (which is a false gospel). Many other theologians were also of the Reformed persuasion in the past.

So people need to study theologies keeping in mind that some ideas could be misleading. For example, Amillennialism is the standard eschatology of some denominations. So they will oppose any other interpretations.

Maturity is when we can read these helpful books in our journey to discover authorial intent and learn how to make our own decisions on the correct interpretations when there is more than one presented. And still keep reading what else the author has to say on areas we can agree about.

Wayne Grudem is also a continuationist which is not the norm for a reformist. It is an example of intellectual honesty. He is trying his best to interpret scriptures correctly.

I think that is why I like Wayne Grudem. He is intellectually honest and I love that in a brother. He is not perfect, and none of us have it all perfectly figured out yet, but I can tell that he is laser focused on discovering authorial intent as much as possible.

I have not read enough of F.F. Bruce to be sure, but I have a good feeling about his intellectual honesty as well. Writers who are willing to concede to an interpretation that is not what their denomination teaches is always a good sign of intellectual honesty. They risk being defrocked by their denomination by interpreting a verse differently because they only want to interpret it correctly and are not moved by fear of man or repercussions from their denomination. Gordon Fee is another one I highly respect. He departs from the position of the denomination that ordained him because he is focused on correct interpretation.

 

[BeeThePeace]

There was a Christian forum that was extraordinary and peaceful. They were purchased shortly after I joined and all that changed seemingly overnight. Bad to this day too.

As was exampled in the church I attended awhile ago that was an emersive bible study , an inclusive sharing session rather than her sermonizing at the congregation, there are beautiful experiences in Christian community.


In that community environment there were both believers and those who were not Christian yet were there because they were led to seek the community of faithful and learn .

That's a face to face gathering of people dedicated to reading the scriptures and sharing and learning what the spirit called them to know.

The peace that filled that little church had a feel, a presence to it. That in my view was the holy spirit, Christ, with us. As he promised.

Where two or more are gathered in my name there I among them also. And I can be sure everyone there, believers and seekers, knew that was so. Because we spoke about it and the presence there among us.

Whereas we know pseudonyms, faceless text, on an open forum on the world wide web is like lighting a candle in the outer darkness.
The Christian will hearken unto that beacon and seek community there. Again, two or more gathered in his name.

However that darkness is the domain, the heart, of the adversary too. That lord of this world who has his disciples world wide as well.
And being he and his minions are opposed to the light of truth and Christ, that candle also alerts them to our presence.

The anonymity factor, the mask they are able to don at registration is an even greater inducement. Because now the disciples of the devil can enter in as costumed sheep and smile behind that fake name,pseudonyms, their gangs, their wolf maw, never being seen as it smiles while working to corrupt the peace in the community. And abrogating the scriptures.

They're not ignorant if the scriptures. They're enemies if the word.

Real interest in learning about Jesus will show respect and genuine appreciation for the truth.

Devil's will not.
And it will always be this way for as long as wolves are let to howl among the saints.
Not every community permits such trespass. So there is a blessing in that.

Devil's are cowards that prey in the dark. They would never act that way in a church where their face is seen and they can be cast out.

The good news is God knows who they are too. Their evil will carry on but for a short time.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Well, while I disagree, perhaps one of the reasons you feel that way is because Catholic Bibles have 7 extra books that Protestant Bibles don't have. In a Council in Rome under Pope Damasus in 382, the Catholic Church determined the Canon of Scripture, including the 27 Book NT Canon we all accept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Rome But the OT canon always contained 46 books, not 39. During the Reformation, after over 1000 of universal acceptance of the canonicity of these books, these 7 books (1 and 2 Maccabees, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch and Tobit) were taken out. The difference is mostly due to these books, for e.g. they teach that we should pray for the faithful departed, and that the Saints in Heaven pray for us. Regarding Christ and the NT, we differ very little, all told. But these books do belong in the Bible imho, and thus if they are removed, a difference in theology will occur. That's what occurred at the Reformation.

God Bless.

NT still has 27. You can't square Catholic theology or practice with what's taught in those books. If you can't see that you're suffering from serious delusions.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Well, it's like the "religion bad, relationship good" threads. It's semantic. To me, "theology" is another term for "bible study", which we are supposed to do. Having guideance from the Lord is obviously crucial; but I do not believe it takes away our own responsibility to study the word. It's like we can't add an inch to our own stature, but we still eat food; we don't just trust God to make us grow, but not do the things that help us grow.

I don't see theology and Bible study as the same.

Bible study is one-on-one with the Lord seeking His guidance.

Theology is man's traditions. It's commentary after commentary from all the "great minds" who have figured out the Bible and pontificate to others how they should understand it.

 

[phil36]

"Contend for the faith" while you still can. When he returns, the debate is over.

That's a good theological statement 👍

 

[Magenta]

Bible study is one-on-one with the Lord seeking His guidance.

What do you call it when one reads together with others, such as the Bereans?

 

[tourist]

Theology is a set of intellectual and emotional commitments, justified or not,
about God and man which dictate ones beliefs and actions. Neither the word
itself is irrelevant, nor the concepts which it seeks to articulate. It is the first
pursuit of knowledge and wisdom, and called “the queen of the sciences.”
It was understood to be the first among pursuits of knowledge, since it was
believed that all other pursuits were vitally linked to its dictates. Morality
was dictated by it. Philosophy was called its handmaiden. It was held in such
high esteem because theology itself provides a foundation for your philosophy
and worldview, which in turn sets inclinations for your heart, actions, and
decisions in all situations. Everything is affected by your theology. source

Fascinating thesis. I learned something today. Also, your written and verbal skills are outstanding. Exquisite.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I don't see theology and Bible study as the same.

Bible study is one-on-one with the Lord seeking His guidance.

Theology is man's traditions. It's commentary after commentary from all the "great minds" who have figured out the Bible and pontificate to others how they should understand it.

I think i get what you mean, there is a lot of silly commentary out there and some of it becomes dogmatic. We should never get to the point where we are treating them like they are the Bible itself. Some are useful, like when they bring up relevant facts or historical data, but the ones that "pontificate" as you have put it- those are annoying.

 

[Eli1]

I don't think we are arriving at different interpretations.

I don't disagree with the points you make about the motivation of Love vs fear. I believe born again Christians don't live in fear of hell. They rejoice that they are saved from it.

You haven't actually given an interpretation of the following scripture:

Luke 12:4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him

I am sure that you agree with Jesus. He is "forewarning" them of something.

Many of them were later killed for their faith. In that hour I am sure this saying of Jesus gave them strength and hope.

When they beat the disciples and told them to stop preaching the resurrection of the dead in Jesus name, they said what is better to obey man or God? And the answer is. ...
Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him

Well that’s clear as day that is says that God can cast anyone into hell.
However as I said before, I don’t fear God even if He casts me into hell. I love God.
Also, as I’ve said before, we shouldn’t pick a verse from the Bible and build a worldview out of it but take the Bible as a whole and build a worldview out of it.
The essence of the Bible to me is that God created us in his image for fellowship. This is the greatest gift out of Love.

 

[Ted01]

I love Theology. Theology means the Knowledge of God. It is about seeking God's Wisdom from Him. The Bible commends it in Prov 4:

"Proverbs 4

1Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding.2I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching.3When I was a boy in my father's house, still tender, and an only child of my mother,4he taught me and said, "Lay hold of my words with all your heart; keep my commands and you will live.5Get wisdom, get understanding; do not forget my words or swerve from them.6Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you.7Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, [1] get understanding.8Esteem her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will honor you.9She will set a garland of grace on your head and present you with a crown of splendor."

The word Theology does not mean Knowledge of God - It means the Study of God.

 

[ewq1938]

the·ol·o·gy
/THēˈäləjē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: theology

the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
"a theology degree"
religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.
plural noun: theologies
"a willingness to tolerate new theologies"

 

[Ted01]

I don't see theology and Bible study as the same.

Bible study is one-on-one with the Lord seeking His guidance.

Theology is man's traditions. It's commentary after commentary from all the "great minds" who have figured out the Bible and pontificate to others how they should understand it.

See now, I see as both those things - Theology is a Bible study (to get to know God) or a theological construct based on opinion's gleaned from said study... but the word "theology" simply means to study (the nature of) God. Ergo, it would be a mistake to call a theological construct "theology.

The constructs that men build around their own observations are often very dangerous things and almost always divisive.

So I agree with those that have called this a semantical argument.

 

[Gideon300]

I agree, but we do need to study God's word in order to know who he truly is.

I'm 100% in favour of studying God's word. I encourage new Christians to get into God's word. It is also vital to let God's word get into us. If we study God's word as if it was an instruction manual for Christian living, we will miss the point. If we seek the Lord, He will reveal Himself to us in and through His word and in other ways too.

 

[Gideon300]

I see some comments here regarding fear of God. These are common in many Christian circles but I don’t get this.
Why would you fear God? I love God !

Fear as in a healthy respect. It used to be easy to understand this, but society has become so rebellious and arrogant, that respect for authority barely exists. Every heartbeat could be our last. God has the power of life and death. When we are getting careless and complacent, God will allow troubles to come our way to bring us back on the straight and narrow. Some Christians complain and get mad at God. That is the best way to lose God's blessing and bring about His discipline.

I grew up in a generation that believed children were not some godlike beings who ruled the family. We suffered for misbehaving. There were consequences. So it is with believers. (Hebrews 12:6)

 

[ewq1938]

Long ago you either kept things to yourself or you just went with the majority. Now in modern times, especially because of the internet, people express their own personal opinions so you get a thousand people saying a thousand different beliefs on any given subject.

Take the popular post-trib vs pre-trib rapture positions. Both aren't correct. The rapture of the living and remaining saints is either before the Great Tribulation or after it. (not bringing mid-trib into this because it's not popular).

We are to study to show ourselves approved so it's wise to study this and find out which is true. The problem is people come to different conclusions and that's where the endless debating takes place. Each side are positive they are right, but one side is very deluded while the other side sees everything crystal clear.

 

[Live4Him3]

I'm 100% in favour of studying God's word. I encourage new Christians to get into God's word. It is also vital to let God's word get into us. If we study God's word as if it was an instruction manual for Christian living, we will miss the point. If we seek the Lord, He will reveal Himself to us in and through His word and in other ways too.

Many years ago, I heard it said that "The purpose of the book of the Lord is to get one to know the Lord of the book", and I would agree. This "knowing" goes way beyond just some sort of head knowledge. It's an intimate sort of knowing where the two become one or where we become "one spirit" with the Lord (I Cor. 6:17).

Eternal life isn't found simply in the scriptures. Instead, it's found in the one that the scriptures testify of.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (John 5:39-40)

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

 

[CNKW3]

I think the key term is “doctrine”. Doctrine is a set of beliefs held by a group For this discussion we are talking about beliefs held by a church. Doctrine also means “teaching”. It is vitally important to understand New Testament doctrine/teaching. We are commanded by Paul to….study to show thy self approved unto God a worker who need not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15

There are a number of passages that mention doctrine and the importance of getting it right. The main reason there are so many denominations is that they….”teach for doctrine the commandments of men”. Mt 15:9

Many denominational doctrines/teachings cannot be found in the NT. Men come up with them and they become doctrine.

For example…

1. Sprinkling babies? Not in the NT
2. Instruments of music in worship? Not in the NT
3. Salvation by faith alone? Not in NT
4. Sinners prayer for salvation? Not in NT
5. Female preachers? Not in the NT
6. One man Pastor rule or head pastor? Not in the NT
7. Tithing? Not in the NT
8. Priests, nuns, archbishops, diocese etc? Not in the NT
9. Father so and so? Not in the NT
10. Pope? Not in the NT
11. Christmas as Jesus birthday? Not in the NT

There are more but you get the idea. If people would just follow what the Bible teaches and not what man teaches we would be much better off. Then “theology” wouldn’t be a problem.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

NT still has 27. You can't square Catholic theology or practice with what's taught in those books. If you can't see that you're suffering from serious delusions.

Is that so? If you really think so, why don't you name a specific doctrine in Catholic theology that you think is irreconcilable with the NT.

As I said, you may not know what the Deuterocanonical books teach. If you did, you may have a different perspective. I will just quote a few excerpts and leave it at that. They teach both that those departed now pray for us and also that we should pray for the departed.

Baruch 3:4

"O Lord Almighty, thou God of Israel, hear now the prayers of the dead Israelites, and of their children, which have sinned before thee, and not hearkened unto the voice of thee their God: for the which cause these plagues cleave unto us.”

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Baruch-3-4/

2 Maccabees 12:45

“And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.”

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Maccabees-12-45/

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The word Theology does not mean Knowledge of God - It means the Study of God.

Ok, I stand corrected.

I was going by the root words: "Theo" meaning God and "Logos" meaning Knowledge/Wisdom. So I summarized it as "Knowledge/Wisdom of God". God Bless.

 

[randyk]

Personally, I hate theology. To me it seems like a pointless intellectual exercise that locks people out from hearing the truth. I like understanding, but to me understanding is something different than theology and it's important to know the difference. Understanding comes from the Lord; theology, in most cases, is a human edifice written in stone. "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."—John 5:39

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts, 1st of all, is that you are narrowly using the word "theology." It is not normally a "cuss word." Theology is looking at the doctrines of the Bible in an organized, teachable manner. Arguing over theology was discouraged by Paul if it did not produce fruit.

Paul argued theology with the Jewish People in order to win them to Christ. If they were not open, he brushed the dust off his feet. Paul argued theology with fellow Christians, to get them to avoid error. Again, if there was no response, Paul rejected them, not necessarily as unbelievers, but as incorrigible until such time as they humbled themselves and repented.

Therefore, theology is essential. You have to be careful how you use the term. I understand how you're using it. I would just be careful not to dismiss ministries that may be different than your own. All are needed if they are done in the right spirit and show fruits of success.