There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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Jesus claimed to be God:
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
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The One living in us. That was my point. Jesus included Himself along with His Father as indwelling believers, but it is the Holy Spirit that indwells believers, so those three must be One.
"Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them." Jn.14:23
"Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them." Jn.14:23
O
For it is written or and now for the rest of the story:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then the Jews sought Him at the feast, and said, “Where is He?” [SUP]12 [/SUP]And there was much complaining among the people concerning Him. Some said, “He is good”; others said, “No, on the contrary, He deceives the people.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]However, no one spoke openly of Him for fear of the Jews.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. [SUP]18 [/SUP]He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, “You have a demon. Who is seeking to kill You?”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? [SUP]24 [/SUP]Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Could This Be the Christ?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now some of them from Jerusalem said, “Is this not He whom they seek to kill? [SUP]26 [/SUP]But look! He speaks boldly, and they say nothing to Him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is truly the Christ? [SUP]27 [/SUP]However, we know where this Man is from; but when the Christ comes, no one knows where He is from.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then Jesus cried out, as He taught in the temple, saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me.”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore they sought to take Him; but no one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And many of the people believed in Him, and said, “When the Christ comes, will He do more signs than these which this Man has done?”
Jesus and the Religious Leaders
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring these things concerning Him, and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take Him. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them, “I shall be with you a little while longer, and then I go to Him who sent Me. [SUP]34 [/SUP]You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come.”
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then the Jews said among themselves, “Where does He intend to go that we shall not find Him? Does He intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? [SUP]36 [/SUP]What is this thing that He said, ‘You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come’?”
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
[SUP]37 [/SUP]On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. [SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Who Is He?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore many[SUP][i][/SUP] from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, “Truly this is the Prophet.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]Others said, “This is the Christ.”
But some said, “Will the Christ come out of Galilee? [SUP]42 [/SUP]Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?” [SUP]43 [/SUP]So there was a division among the people because of Him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Now some of them wanted to take Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
Rejected by the Authorities
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then the officers came to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why have you not brought Him?”
[SUP]46 [/SUP]The officers answered, “No man ever spoke like this Man!”
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Then the Pharisees answered them, “Are you also deceived? [SUP]48 [/SUP]Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him? [SUP]49 [/SUP]But this crowd that does not know the law is accursed.”
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Nicodemus (he who came to Jesus by night, being one of them) said to them, [SUP]51 [/SUP]“Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?”
[SUP]52[/SUP]They answered and said to him, “Are you also from Galilee? Search and look, for no prophet has arisen out of Galilee.”
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And everyone went to his own house.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then the Jews sought Him at the feast, and said, “Where is He?” [SUP]12 [/SUP]And there was much complaining among the people concerning Him. Some said, “He is good”; others said, “No, on the contrary, He deceives the people.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]However, no one spoke openly of Him for fear of the Jews.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. [SUP]18 [/SUP]He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, “You have a demon. Who is seeking to kill You?”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? [SUP]24 [/SUP]Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Could This Be the Christ?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now some of them from Jerusalem said, “Is this not He whom they seek to kill? [SUP]26 [/SUP]But look! He speaks boldly, and they say nothing to Him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is truly the Christ? [SUP]27 [/SUP]However, we know where this Man is from; but when the Christ comes, no one knows where He is from.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then Jesus cried out, as He taught in the temple, saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me.”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore they sought to take Him; but no one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And many of the people believed in Him, and said, “When the Christ comes, will He do more signs than these which this Man has done?”
Jesus and the Religious Leaders
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring these things concerning Him, and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take Him. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them, “I shall be with you a little while longer, and then I go to Him who sent Me. [SUP]34 [/SUP]You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come.”
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then the Jews said among themselves, “Where does He intend to go that we shall not find Him? Does He intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? [SUP]36 [/SUP]What is this thing that He said, ‘You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come’?”
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
[SUP]37 [/SUP]On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. [SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Who Is He?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore many[SUP][i][/SUP] from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, “Truly this is the Prophet.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]Others said, “This is the Christ.”
But some said, “Will the Christ come out of Galilee? [SUP]42 [/SUP]Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?” [SUP]43 [/SUP]So there was a division among the people because of Him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Now some of them wanted to take Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
Rejected by the Authorities
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then the officers came to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why have you not brought Him?”
[SUP]46 [/SUP]The officers answered, “No man ever spoke like this Man!”
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Then the Pharisees answered them, “Are you also deceived? [SUP]48 [/SUP]Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him? [SUP]49 [/SUP]But this crowd that does not know the law is accursed.”
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Nicodemus (he who came to Jesus by night, being one of them) said to them, [SUP]51 [/SUP]“Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?”
[SUP]52[/SUP]They answered and said to him, “Are you also from Galilee? Search and look, for no prophet has arisen out of Galilee.”
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And everyone went to his own house.
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He said the Father and Son indwell the believer. We know from other passages this occurs through the Holy Spirit. It doesn't make a believer God, but one with God as a husband and wife are one:
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ...Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." 1 Co.12:12,27
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Eph.5:30-32
We are one with God, but are not Him.
What do you think of children? When they are born, are they the product of their parents, or not?
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ...Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." 1 Co.12:12,27
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Eph.5:30-32
We are one with God, but are not Him.
What do you think of children? When they are born, are they the product of their parents, or not?
We are one with God, but are not Him.
If we are one with God, but are not Him physically, why would you think Jesus (God's child)and the Holy Spirit are one with God physically? If God indwells in Jesus and God indwells in us, there can be no difference. By definition, we all must be one physically. If we are one physically, we should be part of the Trinity.
OR
As you say, think of children. When they are born, are they the product of their parents, or not? Well the answer is, "they are". Jesus is the Son of God, his child. Therefore, God and Jesus have to be separate beings, just like we are separate beings from God. Like a Father and Son, like a husband and wife, like parents and children. They are, however, "one" in purpose, just like we are "one" in purpose with God.
If we are one with God, but are not Him physically, why would you think Jesus (God's child)and the Holy Spirit are one with God physically? If God indwells in Jesus and God indwells in us, there can be no difference. By definition, we all must be one physically. If we are one physically, we should be part of the Trinity.
OR
As you say, think of children. When they are born, are they the product of their parents, or not? Well the answer is, "they are". Jesus is the Son of God, his child. Therefore, God and Jesus have to be separate beings, just like we are separate beings from God. Like a Father and Son, like a husband and wife, like parents and children. They are, however, "one" in purpose, just like we are "one" in purpose with God.
The difference is, we don't indwell God. He indwells us. Jesus said;
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." Jn.16:7
Previously, He said;
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
There is no reason for Jesus to include Himself as indwelling us, unless He is God.
Unlike us, Jesus is the only begotten of God. Children inheriting the nature of their parents leads us to the truth of Jesus being both God and Man.
The problem (not that there is one) is that we know there is only one God. "Separate Beings" is better understood as the same Being in Human form;
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..." 1Ti.3:16
It is right to worship only God, but in trying to live this way by denying Jesus Diety, people actually dishonor God.
Consider this;
"For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called." Is.54:5
Who are the redeemed to marry?
"And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God." Re.19:9
Someday, we will see God the Father and we will also see Him as He redeemed us in the Person of Jesus. All glory belongs to God;
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another..." Is.42:8
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." Jn.16:7
Previously, He said;
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
There is no reason for Jesus to include Himself as indwelling us, unless He is God.
Unlike us, Jesus is the only begotten of God. Children inheriting the nature of their parents leads us to the truth of Jesus being both God and Man.
The problem (not that there is one) is that we know there is only one God. "Separate Beings" is better understood as the same Being in Human form;
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..." 1Ti.3:16
It is right to worship only God, but in trying to live this way by denying Jesus Diety, people actually dishonor God.
Consider this;
"For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called." Is.54:5
Who are the redeemed to marry?
"And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God." Re.19:9
Someday, we will see God the Father and we will also see Him as He redeemed us in the Person of Jesus. All glory belongs to God;
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another..." Is.42:8
I do not see a difference whether we indwell God or He indwells us, we are indwelled together. With God indwelling in us at least agree it makes us a much more powerful human being.
Isaiah 42:8 is trumped by John 17:22 "The glory Thou (God) gavest me (Jesus), I have given them (the believers), that they may be one even as we are one." Thats why I say agree with me, that with God indwelling in us we will be recipients of his power and glory and will be much more powerful human beings to testify of God and Jesus.
As far as Jesus is God, answer this question (there will be more depending on your answer):
1) Is the Lord Jesus, God the Father?
There are just too many scriptures that deny the Trinity outright without interpretation. There are no scriptures that clearly testify of the Trinity. There are some that seem to testify but not without massive interpretation. So either I haven't figured it out my friend, or you haven't figured it out, the jury is still out. Nice to see your face again.
Is your hand, or foot a part of you or are they you? Many parts yet one body
The Father and Jesus the son are one in the body to us for us to walk as he walked in Faith to Father as one in Father, the Holy Spirit the connector as seen in the water Baptism, witnessed by John
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Now one might be the right hand of the Body of Christ, while the other the left hand and another the foot, and on and on do you see this John luke
One Lord, one Faith one Baptism all in Spirit and truth. And not to flaunt this power or abuse it as an occasion for one's flesh nature to abuse it, as the Corinthians did and had to be put back under Law to humiliate their freedom they were abusing, until they could become ready for maturity in Father by Son's finished work for them
Slicing and dicing the two Christ and Father is not, edifying, when Christ said if you see him, you see Father, and that there is no other but by Christ to see Father and have new life in Spirit and truth, since perfection is required, and there is not one perfect ever before or after Christ. It is by Christ one is made perfect before Father
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
The Father and Jesus the son are one in the body to us for us to walk as he walked in Faith to Father as one in Father, the Holy Spirit the connector as seen in the water Baptism, witnessed by John
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Now one might be the right hand of the Body of Christ, while the other the left hand and another the foot, and on and on do you see this John luke
One Lord, one Faith one Baptism all in Spirit and truth. And not to flaunt this power or abuse it as an occasion for one's flesh nature to abuse it, as the Corinthians did and had to be put back under Law to humiliate their freedom they were abusing, until they could become ready for maturity in Father by Son's finished work for them
Slicing and dicing the two Christ and Father is not, edifying, when Christ said if you see him, you see Father, and that there is no other but by Christ to see Father and have new life in Spirit and truth, since perfection is required, and there is not one perfect ever before or after Christ. It is by Christ one is made perfect before Father
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
So then lets trust this:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Re: Deal with it...
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Re: Deal with it...
[h=3]Mark 12:28-30[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
does the bold red mean we are made up of four parts now?
[h=3]Mark 12:28-30[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
does the bold red mean we are made up of four parts now?
Well homwardbound, you have said a lot of words, but I'm not sure that you answered my first simple question. You did say, "The Father and Jesus the son are one in the body". But you did not answer the question. So here it is again,
Is the Lord Jesus, God the Father? Please answer "yes" or "no" and then comment on your answer. Thank you.
Is the Lord Jesus, God the Father? Please answer "yes" or "no" and then comment on your answer. Thank you.
Re: Deal with it...
Where in scripture does it command to teach that doctrine? To the point where some suggest that if you don't believe it you are going to hell.
Man made doctrine seems to be the order of the day and we leave off the teachings of what pertains to life and godliness in Christ. Destroyed by another man made doctrine OSAS.
Where in scripture does it command to teach that doctrine? To the point where some suggest that if you don't believe it you are going to hell.
Man made doctrine seems to be the order of the day and we leave off the teachings of what pertains to life and godliness in Christ. Destroyed by another man made doctrine OSAS.
Yes
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
That says seeing Christ they have seen the Father in him in Spirit and truth. Christ in the body represented to us God in Spirit and truth, by his being born of the Virgin Mary
They are two but one. one in Spirit and truth and one in the Body.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
That says seeing Christ they have seen the Father in him in Spirit and truth. Christ in the body represented to us God in Spirit and truth, by his being born of the Virgin Mary
They are two but one. one in Spirit and truth and one in the Body.