There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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No, how could it when that has already happened only once the separating at the cross, and is when Jesus took on the sin of the world for us to be saved, and is risen forever today. Father raised him back to life. So as it appeared was not a destroying of the Godhead, rather an adding to the Godhead for us to be added by and through Faith (belief), in the sending of the Holy Spirit of truth, first for us to believe, then be taught, and not by mankind, By God the Father in the form of the Holy Spirit of truth. The same Spirit of truth that led Christ. in love as in 1 cor. 13:4-13
Energy is God and God along with energy, can not be destroyed nor created, and the enemy is so angry and has tried from day one to destroy God, the energy that can't be destroyed, let alone created
We are the creation, that act as if we are creators, when in reality we are not creators
So what makes sense here to create or respond to the creator?
Three, two, four, one, hello, God just love you, and nothing can separate this love from you, me or anyone. Just like energy can't be created or destroyed
Energy
Love
God
Slice, dice or cube anyway you want, it matters not, when nothing can separate us from his Love
therefore I won't shut up, let up, until I have spoken up for Christ, being a part of the fellowship of the unashamed
Sir do you bottom line beleive what Christ did for you at the cross? What is your purpose here? waht are you after to do or find out?
Energy is God and God along with energy, can not be destroyed nor created, and the enemy is so angry and has tried from day one to destroy God, the energy that can't be destroyed, let alone created
We are the creation, that act as if we are creators, when in reality we are not creators
So what makes sense here to create or respond to the creator?
Three, two, four, one, hello, God just love you, and nothing can separate this love from you, me or anyone. Just like energy can't be created or destroyed
Energy
Love
God
Slice, dice or cube anyway you want, it matters not, when nothing can separate us from his Love
therefore I won't shut up, let up, until I have spoken up for Christ, being a part of the fellowship of the unashamed
Sir do you bottom line beleive what Christ did for you at the cross? What is your purpose here? waht are you after to do or find out?
Please. do not put words in my mouth, ask me is plain well to do.
I do believe in the trinity, yet what does that matter, I beleive Father in what Father did for us by way of the Son. And sent the comforter, this same Holy Spirit of truth that led Christ in Spirit and truth is for us to be led the same in Spirit and truth
Which in Spirit and truth is one, yet many as a body has many parts, yet one body
I do believe in the trinity, yet what does that matter, I beleive Father in what Father did for us by way of the Son. And sent the comforter, this same Holy Spirit of truth that led Christ in Spirit and truth is for us to be led the same in Spirit and truth
Which in Spirit and truth is one, yet many as a body has many parts, yet one body
Since the Lord Jesus and God the Father were separated at the cross, is there other times when they are separated?
I too believe that Jesus saved us from our sins and that he will always love us no matter what happens. I too, am a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.
My bottom line is trying to understand the true nature of the Lord Jesus Chirst, God the Father and the Holy Ghost. You say the Lord Jesus and God the Father are the same God, but yet you also say they were separated at the cross. My purpose and what I am after is trying to understand what you believe. It doesn't seem possible to be one, but then be separate at some times. So thats why I am asking you questions.
I would like to get it right, because Bowman says that if you don't, you will not go to heaven.
I too believe that Jesus saved us from our sins and that he will always love us no matter what happens. I too, am a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.
My bottom line is trying to understand the true nature of the Lord Jesus Chirst, God the Father and the Holy Ghost. You say the Lord Jesus and God the Father are the same God, but yet you also say they were separated at the cross. My purpose and what I am after is trying to understand what you believe. It doesn't seem possible to be one, but then be separate at some times. So thats why I am asking you questions.
I would like to get it right, because Bowman says that if you don't, you will not go to heaven.
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Re: Deal with it...
you have a brain right so lets work it out I say one you say three in one.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
So my one God is claiming all things are of him and we in him. Ok now my one Lord is claiming all thing are by him and we by him.He in the Father and the Father in him Now it done there is nothing more to share.
You are right I don't know what the trinity is ...I know God is one...You say holy spirit is third person how come he gets no part of All. Doctrine of men you can fool some people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all the time.
Look at the intro in each of the epistles One God One Lord.
you have a brain right so lets work it out I say one you say three in one.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
So my one God is claiming all things are of him and we in him. Ok now my one Lord is claiming all thing are by him and we by him.He in the Father and the Father in him Now it done there is nothing more to share.
You are right I don't know what the trinity is ...I know God is one...You say holy spirit is third person how come he gets no part of All. Doctrine of men you can fool some people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all the time.
Look at the intro in each of the epistles One God One Lord.
I too believe that Jesus saved us from our sins and that he will always love us no matter what happens. I too, am a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.
My bottom line is trying to understand the true nature of the Lord Jesus Chirst, God the Father and the Holy Ghost. You say the Lord Jesus and God the Father are the same God, but yet you also say they were separated at the cross. My purpose and what I am after is trying to understand what you believe. It doesn't seem possible to be one, but then be separate at some times. So thats why I am asking you questions.
.
Believe in God not Bowman,
[/QUOTE]
The spirit of our Lord was never separated from the Father it was separated from the fleshly body. It is the same way if we abide in him and he in us the body dies but the spirit lives because of him
Concerning the trinity...
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
And if you want to know of the holy spirit
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice how Paul interchange the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ,same holy spirit... not a third part of a godhead it is all here in the scripture no drama
My bottom line is trying to understand the true nature of the Lord Jesus Chirst, God the Father and the Holy Ghost. You say the Lord Jesus and God the Father are the same God, but yet you also say they were separated at the cross. My purpose and what I am after is trying to understand what you believe. It doesn't seem possible to be one, but then be separate at some times. So thats why I am asking you questions.
.
Believe in God not Bowman,
[/QUOTE]
The spirit of our Lord was never separated from the Father it was separated from the fleshly body. It is the same way if we abide in him and he in us the body dies but the spirit lives because of him
Concerning the trinity...
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
And if you want to know of the holy spirit
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice how Paul interchange the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ,same holy spirit... not a third part of a godhead it is all here in the scripture no drama
Yes it does, but only because both Father and Son make their home inside us by the Spirit. We don't make our home inside Them. They make Their home inside us. If Jesus isn't God, there is no reason for Him to include Himself as indwelling us:
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
This is how we are indwelt by God
"In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.Eph.2:22
"... I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God..." 2 Co.6:16
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Co.3:16-17
Both Father and Son dwell in us by the Spirit. If you disagree this portrays the Trinity, you must explain
Scripture isn't "trumped" by other scripture. Scripture must always agree with other scripture.
Yes. God the Father in Human flesh. I shared this with you and you didn't comment on it:
"God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Ti.3:16
God became Man to redeem us to Himself.
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His own blood." Acts 20:28
All honor belongs to Him.
You haven't addressed other points I have raised. For instance, how is God the Husband of Israel if Jesus marries Israel? If Jesus is a separate Person, that would maker Him an adulterer. You must answer questions such as this to prove your position. Also, my claim that children are the product of what their parents are wasn't satisfactorily by you. Jesus was the only Human to be born of God and a human, which makes Him both God and Man. All others are adopted into the family of God.
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
This is how we are indwelt by God
"In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.Eph.2:22
"... I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God..." 2 Co.6:16
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Co.3:16-17
Both Father and Son dwell in us by the Spirit. If you disagree this portrays the Trinity, you must explain
Scripture isn't "trumped" by other scripture. Scripture must always agree with other scripture.
Yes. God the Father in Human flesh. I shared this with you and you didn't comment on it:
"God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Ti.3:16
God became Man to redeem us to Himself.
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His own blood." Acts 20:28
All honor belongs to Him.
You haven't addressed other points I have raised. For instance, how is God the Husband of Israel if Jesus marries Israel? If Jesus is a separate Person, that would maker Him an adulterer. You must answer questions such as this to prove your position. Also, my claim that children are the product of what their parents are wasn't satisfactorily by you. Jesus was the only Human to be born of God and a human, which makes Him both God and Man. All others are adopted into the family of God.
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me,he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will
All of these scriptures are well said and the bottom line is that God the Father and Jesus Christ dwell in us by the Holy Spirit.
The reason the Holy Spirit has to do the indwelling is because Jesus has a body of flesh and bone and therefore it would be difficult for him to actually indwell in us, so he sends the Holy Spirit to indwell and it is this person of the Godhead, being spirit can dwell with our spirit and we are enlightened and become men of God.
This is not an answer, you say 1 scripture does not trump another. Scripture must agree. So I would like you to reconcile these 2 scriptures. Isaiah says God does not give his glory to another. John says that God gave his glory to his Son Jesus Christ and Jesus gave that same glory to believers. So please make these 2 scriptures agree. Thanks
If Jesus is God the Father in the flesh, then why does Jesus continually tell us that God the Father SENT HIM (John 7:16) and that God the Father IS IN HEAVEN (Mark 11:26).
The one that sends cannot be the one that is sent.
Jesus confirms this obvious situation when he says that the Father is in heaven.
So it becomes obvious that God the Father (the sender) stayed in heaven, while Jesus (the one sent) came to earth. Therefore they cannot be the same person.
Pauls letter to Titus says that God is manifest in the flesh. This is not God the Father manifest in the Flesh. It is God the Son Jesus Christ manifest in the Flesh. Jesus was the God of Israel in the Old Testament, but he is still not God the Father.
In this instant God, the husband of Israel, and Jesus the one that marries Israel are the same person. But God in this scripture is not God the Father, but is again God the Son, the God of the Old Testament, who was sent to earth by God the Father as Jesus who will marry Israel. Jesus is the God of Israel, its creator and its Groom, but again is not God the Father.
The reason the Holy Spirit has to do the indwelling is because Jesus has a body of flesh and bone and therefore it would be difficult for him to actually indwell in us, so he sends the Holy Spirit to indwell and it is this person of the Godhead, being spirit can dwell with our spirit and we are enlightened and become men of God.
This is not an answer, you say 1 scripture does not trump another. Scripture must agree. So I would like you to reconcile these 2 scriptures. Isaiah says God does not give his glory to another. John says that God gave his glory to his Son Jesus Christ and Jesus gave that same glory to believers. So please make these 2 scriptures agree. Thanks
If Jesus is God the Father in the flesh, then why does Jesus continually tell us that God the Father SENT HIM (John 7:16) and that God the Father IS IN HEAVEN (Mark 11:26).
The one that sends cannot be the one that is sent.
Jesus confirms this obvious situation when he says that the Father is in heaven.
So it becomes obvious that God the Father (the sender) stayed in heaven, while Jesus (the one sent) came to earth. Therefore they cannot be the same person.
Pauls letter to Titus says that God is manifest in the flesh. This is not God the Father manifest in the Flesh. It is God the Son Jesus Christ manifest in the Flesh. Jesus was the God of Israel in the Old Testament, but he is still not God the Father.
In this instant God, the husband of Israel, and Jesus the one that marries Israel are the same person. But God in this scripture is not God the Father, but is again God the Son, the God of the Old Testament, who was sent to earth by God the Father as Jesus who will marry Israel. Jesus is the God of Israel, its creator and its Groom, but again is not God the Father.
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This whole concept of Jesus being the bride groom and Israel is the bride, is an allegory. If it were not, just think about it. Isarel is made up of men and women and children. If Jesus is the bride groom and actually marries Israel, he would be marrying not only women, but men and children. Adultery would be the least of his problems.
That does not make them a trinity ...put three apples in a barrel of water mix until they become a trinity.
Mark 12:29
King James Version
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
1 Corinthians 8:6
King James Version
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
What part of one don't you understand.
Mark 12:29
King James Version
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
1 Corinthians 8:6
King James Version
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
What part of one don't you understand.
Father God ,Son God ,Spirit not God
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Spirit of God ,Spirit of Christ but not God. even in the throne room God almighty on the throne and the Lamb.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 16:27-29
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Rev 5
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Spirit of God ,Spirit of Christ but not God. even in the throne room God almighty on the throne and the Lamb.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 16:27-29
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Rev 5
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
I'm a little confused by your statement. You are arguing that Jesus isn't God, but agree He indwlls us by the Holy Spirit and you (correctly) call the Spirit a Person of the "Godhead". Godhead means Diety. Therefore, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both God along with the Father.
Not a problem, but you're going to have to look closer at what Jesus is saying, because in Jn.17, He's speaking of two types of glory...one that the Father gave Him as a mortal, which Jesus gave to His disciples and one which is reserved for God alone...which Jesus is entitled to. First Isaiah:
"...My glory will I not give to another." Is.42:8
Gods glory is for God alone. It will not be given to another. Right?
Now look:
"...the hour is come, glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son may glorify Thee." Jn.17:1
This glory had not been given to Jesus during His earthly ministry. It would be attained at a certain hour (which had now come) and cause glory for both Father and Son.
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Jn.17:5
This is the glory reserved for God alone. To be glorified with the Fathers own Self. This glory was once held by Jesus, before His incarnation and would be held by Him again.
"And now I am no more in the world...(vs.11), "And now come I to thee..." (vs.13).
Jesus is glorified as God (with the Fathers own self) after He ascends to Heaven.
Here is the other glory:
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." Jn.17:22
This glory was received by Jesus during His earthly ministry and shared with His disciples. There is also glory for us to come after the resurrection:
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. 1 Co.15:40-42
But...Jesus glory will supercede all others:
"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory..." Jn.17:24
"...and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. Eph.1:20-21
You're trying to comprehend the nature of God with human understanding.
Again, your statement is confusing. We know there is only one God. Since Jesus is "God the Son", He can only be God.
You're separating Jesus from His Father. It can't be done:
"...hath not one God created us?" Mal.2:10
Not two Gods, but one. Think about this my friend. Who but God Himself could do what Jesus did...live a sinless life as a human? God could not trust anyone but Himself with mankinds redemption. He redeemed us to Himself, by Himself and all honor is due to Him alone:
"Thus saith Yehovah, thy Redeemer, the Holy One..." Is.48:17
Brother, I'm curious to know, do you think God has feelings?
Point is, the Israel of God has only One Husband...and that is God.
Not a problem, but you're going to have to look closer at what Jesus is saying, because in Jn.17, He's speaking of two types of glory...one that the Father gave Him as a mortal, which Jesus gave to His disciples and one which is reserved for God alone...which Jesus is entitled to. First Isaiah:
"...My glory will I not give to another." Is.42:8
Gods glory is for God alone. It will not be given to another. Right?
Now look:
"...the hour is come, glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son may glorify Thee." Jn.17:1
This glory had not been given to Jesus during His earthly ministry. It would be attained at a certain hour (which had now come) and cause glory for both Father and Son.
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Jn.17:5
This is the glory reserved for God alone. To be glorified with the Fathers own Self. This glory was once held by Jesus, before His incarnation and would be held by Him again.
"And now I am no more in the world...(vs.11), "And now come I to thee..." (vs.13).
Jesus is glorified as God (with the Fathers own self) after He ascends to Heaven.
Here is the other glory:
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." Jn.17:22
This glory was received by Jesus during His earthly ministry and shared with His disciples. There is also glory for us to come after the resurrection:
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. 1 Co.15:40-42
But...Jesus glory will supercede all others:
"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory..." Jn.17:24
"...and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. Eph.1:20-21
You're trying to comprehend the nature of God with human understanding.
Again, your statement is confusing. We know there is only one God. Since Jesus is "God the Son", He can only be God.
You're separating Jesus from His Father. It can't be done:
"...hath not one God created us?" Mal.2:10
Not two Gods, but one. Think about this my friend. Who but God Himself could do what Jesus did...live a sinless life as a human? God could not trust anyone but Himself with mankinds redemption. He redeemed us to Himself, by Himself and all honor is due to Him alone:
"Thus saith Yehovah, thy Redeemer, the Holy One..." Is.48:17
Brother, I'm curious to know, do you think God has feelings?
Point is, the Israel of God has only One Husband...and that is God.
It seems to me you are mixing flesh, unredeemed flesh mind you with the Spirit of God. Which does not mix, the same as oil and water does not mix. But can appear to mix if stirred up as oyu are doing, stirring up a glass of water and oil, as it is stirred it appears to mix, yet every time things settle down they always separarte.
And if you or I or anyone can't understand physical analogies, then how can one understand Spiritual realities?
And if you or I or anyone can't understand physical analogies, then how can one understand Spiritual realities?
Yep, Christ's job to redeem mankind. He did this by the cross first the death of him for us in our deserved place. Then the ressurrection came by Father, to give us new life in Spirit and truth, while still in unredeemed flesh. So we are to walk by what? Our flesh a sif it is alive? Or by our made alive Spirit in God through Son? Born again as he told Nicodemus, who knew scripture yet did not see this a coming, or know waht chirst meant, even as the disciples did not understand, until after the resurrection of Christ, and yet still had confusion? Why, was and is it because we wre not redeemed in flesh and so therefore there is a fight between Flesh, mankinds and God's Spirit of truth that is come to teach us wahtever Father says and waht Chirst did for us, while yet in unredeemed flesh. Did Christ not come to give us new life or not? Where is this new life in the resurrected Christ or the dead Christ?