There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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tucksma

Guest
The Bible never states that gerbils can't create, either.

So...according to your reasoning we can't rule it out....

Silly logic...
Big difference is that gerbils are not God's messengers and never carry God's name
"The messenger of God" or Malek Yahweh, or an angel, does. This is because they are doing God's will perfectly. If it is God's will for an angel to create they could. Whatever God say's happens, so if God say's create man it is done. How? By Elohim. You say it is a trinity, which would work if the trinity is true, I say an angel, which also fits rather the trinity is true or not.
 
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tucksma

Guest
Youre all attacking me because I misused the word earn. Relax I understand I misused the word. I corrected myself already.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Your missing the idea of God manifestation that I've said many times. A being can hold God's name if he is doing his work perfectly.
No.


It doesn't literally mean that being is God, just the messenger of God.
It means God.



You assume Jesus is Malek Yahweh. I assume nothing and say that Malek Yahweh is simply a messenger of God. Could it refer to Jesus? Sure. Could it refer to an angel? Sure. Sense it isn't 100% clear to which, it cannot be proof of the trinity.
Mere messengers do not swear by themselves.

Only God does this, as there is nothing greater to swear by...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes but Jesus also judges if they have actually earned salvation. If not then the idea of Jesus being a judge means nothing.
t t t

DON'T CONFUSE SALVATION WITH OUR CHRISTIAN WALK THAT COMES AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

Ephesians 2:4-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP]not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.


Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. {That faith is part of the FREE Gift from GOD, if you have it, the HOLY SPIRIT gave it to you.}And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Big difference is that gerbils are not God's messengers and never carry God's name
"The messenger of God" or Malek Yahweh, or an angel, does. This is because they are doing God's will perfectly. If it is God's will for an angel to create they could. Whatever God say's happens, so if God say's create man it is done. How? By Elohim. You say it is a trinity, which would work if the trinity is true, I say an angel, which also fits rather the trinity is true or not.
According to your logic, the Bible does NOT have to say anything about gerbils for them to be perfect messengers in the first place.....see how jacked-up your theology is...?

Its like the 'anything goes' reality shows on TV....
 
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tucksma

Guest
According to your logic, the Bible does NOT have to say anything about gerbils for them to be perfect messengers in the first place.....see how jacked-up your theology is...?

Its like the 'anything goes' reality shows on TV....
If angels were never called God, then yes you are right. Except they are. Burning bush is an angel called Yahweh. It is Malek Yahweh which means messenger of God. It doesn't mean God.
 
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tucksma

Guest
t t t

DON'T CONFUSE SALVATION WITH OUR CHRISTIAN WALK THAT COMES AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

Ephesians 2:4-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP]not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.


Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. {That faith is part of the FREE Gift from GOD, if you have it, the HOLY SPIRIT gave it to you.}And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
Do you read posts before you make your own? I corrected myself already.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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If angels were never called God, then yes you are right. Except they are. Burning bush is an angel called Yahweh. It is Malek Yahweh which means messenger of God. It doesn't mean God.
I already provided the burning bush example, yesterday, showing that Malek Yahweh (later directly called Yahweh!) spoke as Yahweh from the fire.

You cannot deny...
 
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tucksma

Guest
I'm not denying that Malek Yahweh carried Yahweh's name at all! But that is what he did, carried Yahweh's name, spoke Yahweh's words, but was not Yahweh himself.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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I'm not denying that Malek Yahweh carried Yahweh's name at all! But that is what he did, carried Yahweh's name, spoke Yahweh's words, but was not Yahweh himself.
Malek Yahweh speaks AS Yahweh....NOT for Yahweh.

Give it up...
 
Nov 19, 2012
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The Malek Yahweh revealed to Moses that He was the ‘I AM’ and Yahweh (Exo 3.14 -15; 6.3).
 
Nov 19, 2012
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The Malek Yahweh (Exo 3.2) said that He was the El Shaddai (Exo 6.3) who appeared to the patriarchs (Gen 17.1, 35.11).
 
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krow

Guest
Here an angel is speaking and identifies himself. They have their own names unless it is God Himself doing an errand or giving a message before He is incarnate. He would only be an Angel or "messenger" by His task at that specific moment, and when He claims His name, He can do it and not be damned because He is indeed God.

[h=3]Luke 1:18-20[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

This same angel also appeared to Daniel and Michael also appears. My point is when an angel appears that has his own name he will usually take it, or say God has sent me. They know better than to claim God's name for THEMSELVES unless they are indeed God, for God would never allow that to go unpunished because of His nature.

Angels have identified themselves like this is the Old Testament as well, the exception being the "angel" claiming God's name.

Here God's name is inside this Angel... and what is God's name? Hmm?

Exodus 3
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.




[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.


Exodus 20:


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
 
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tucksma

Guest
The Malek Yahweh revealed to Moses that He was the ‘I AM’ and Yahweh (Exo 3.14 -15; 6.3).
If yahweh is speaking through these angels and the angel says "I am" it then isn't referring to the angel it is referring to Yahweh.
 
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tucksma

Guest
Here an angel is speaking and identifies himself. They have their own names unless it is God Himself doing an errand or giving a message before He is incarnate. He would only be an Angel or "messenger" by His task at that specific moment, and when He claims His name, He can do it and not be damned because He is indeed God.

Luke 1:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

This same angel also appeared to Daniel and Michael also appears. My point is when an angel appears that has his own name he will usually take it, or say God has sent me. They know better than to claim God's name for THEMSELVES unless they are indeed God, for God would never allow that to go unpunished because of His nature.

Angels have identified themselves like this is the Old Testament as well, the exception being the "angel" claiming God's name.

Here God's name is inside this Angel... and what is God's name? Hmm?

Exodus 3
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.




[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.


Exodus 20:


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
I didn't say that angels are always called Yahweh, only if God is talking through them. If god needs them to send his message to man, he sends them out and they are angels, called Yahweh, or Malek Yahweh, meaning messenger of God. I actually have a friend who thinks you can look at scripture and every time it ever says "God does......" it is really angels doing it carrying his name. I do not know if he is right or not, but it is an interesting thought.
 
K

krow

Guest
I didn't say that angels are always called Yahweh, only if God is talking through them. If god needs them to send his message to man, he sends them out and they are angels, called Yahweh, or Malek Yahweh, meaning messenger of God. I actually have a friend who thinks you can look at scripture and every time it ever says "God does......" it is really angels doing it carrying his name. I do not know if he is right or not, but it is an interesting thought.
No... scripture is very specific as to who is doing what usually... not a right idea. Sorry.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Christadelphianism 101...

If yahweh is speaking through these angels and the angel says "I am" it then isn't referring to the angel it is referring to Yahweh.

Observe, Malek Yahweh, as Yahweh...


Hebrews 6.11 - 14

But we desire each of you to show the same eagerness, to the full assurance of the hope to the end; that you not become dull, but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting the promises. For God having made promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, "He swore by Himself," saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." (Gen. 22.16, 17)



Referring to...



Gen 22.15 - 18

And the Malek Yahweh called to Abraham out of the heavens a second time. And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares Yahweh, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.


No granting of authority here...Malek Yahweh swears by Himself because there is no one greater than He.

Again, even the NT authors understood this much.

The Book of Hebrews just slaughters your position completely.
 
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tucksma

Guest
Re: Christadelphianism 101...

Observe, Malek Yahweh, as Yahweh...


Hebrews 6.11 - 14

But we desire each of you to show the same eagerness, to the full assurance of the hope to the end; that you not become dull, but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting the promises. For God having made promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, "He swore by Himself," saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." (Gen. 22.16, 17)



Referring to...



Gen 22.15 - 18

And the Malek Yahweh called to Abraham out of the heavens a second time. And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares Yahweh, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.


No granting of authority here...Malek Yahweh swears by Himself because there is no one greater than He.

Again, even the NT authors understood this much.

The Book of Hebrews just slaughters your position completely.
God manifestation still fits here. Malek Yahweh carrying God's name can be called Yahweh because he carries the name. Malek Yahweh literally did it but only by the will of Yahweh, so when Malek yahweh is speaking, he's speaking Yahweh's word's not his.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Re: Christadelphianism 101...

God manifestation still fits here. Malek Yahweh carrying God's name can be called Yahweh because he carries the name. Malek Yahweh literally did it but only by the will of Yahweh, so when Malek yahweh is speaking, he's speaking Yahweh's word's not his.
If He has the Name Yahweh, then He IS Yahweh.

Simple truth.