There are only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead, not 3 Persons

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#41
I did basic math, And The Father AND the spirit = 2 people.
Thus if the Father and the spirit = two people then how do you get 3?

So considering it is written in John 10:30 "I and my Father are one" then if the Son and the Father are one, then you basically have one personage.

Likewise, it is written in John 6:63 in "... the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." then if the Word and the Spirit are one, you basically have another personage.

Wouldn't that leave you one personage short? (Son and Father) + (Word and Spirit) = 2 personages not three. So if you remove the Son and/or the Word to create the third personage of the trinity then that kinda makes Jesus out to be a liar in either case.

However, remembering the doctrine of Ma and Pa Kettle which holds that 25% divided between 5 people is 14% each, then it would be fruitless to try to disprove the trinity doctrine of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one God
since the it is written in James 2:19; "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Whereas, he that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

(If it was JUST the father, He would have plainly said, and the father sent me, like he did many times in other places.)
If you say so....

"And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them:..."
Mark 4:33-34
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#42
The Godhead was added by erasmus as the Roman Catholic church would have killed him if he hadnt added it. In original scripture it is not found
Fake news. Fake history. Not true as demonstrated by brother Nehemiah!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#43
I admit the trinity is a hard thing to explain to people. And I have never had to explain it. But everytime I talk to people online, they tell me I believe in sabellenism. Or whatever it was called. Or "modalism".

This is usually after I use the water steam and ice analogy for the trinity. I dont see whats wrong with it, they explained it to me a bunch of times and I still didnt get it lol.

I believe Jesus is God, because of John 1:1-3. before Jesus came to this earth He wasnt obviously called "Jesus of Nazareth" or anything like that, but He was the "Word" which was "God"
This Word then became flesh, and dwelt among us. Now compare this to the verse that says "in Him (that would be Jesus) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col 2:9)

I believe what Col 2:9 is saying is the same thing as John 1:1-3 is saying, that Word (that would be God) became flesh. Thats why the Godhead's fullness dwells in Jesus bodily. Jesus had the Holy Spirit from the get go, and He was the Word(which is God) incarnate.

We know that this doesnt mean there are two gods, because Jesus quotes the sh'ma which states there is only one God. It may seem weird that in John 1:1 you have two gods seemingly facing each other. But thats God for you, He is more complex than a rock or a human being. Word is God, Word is with God, but there are not two Gods...... uhm OKAY? Thats the mystery right there.

Look people, our job is not to logically explain away stuff we dont understand in the bible, our job is to just believe what it says.

One more analogy; I cant remember who but some church father said that Jesus and Holy Spirit would be the hands and the head would be God the Father.
I think thats a good way to put it too.

I wonder if this is a salvation issue though? Most Christians I know dont know all the thelogical words, they just believe in one God and His son, Jesus.

EDIT: One more thing, anyone can help me answer a unitarian question I CANNOT answer?
They ask: "Is there any God, other than Jesus Christ's God?"
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#44
Godhead doesnt even exist.
Jesus and the father are together, sometimes both spoke in the OT.
Then God has his council that christians always ignore and say that was the trinity when there is no trinity biblically,...
Thanks for ur post
Red: How true. Jesus is Yahweh who became visible. The sad thing is, the Jews saw him but the majority of them did not recognise him.

Act 10:36 The Word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the good news of peace through Yahshua Messiah, He is Master YAHWEH of all.

Act 2:36 Then assuredly, let all the house of Israel acknowledge that YAHWEH made known this same Yahshua whom you crucified, He is both YAHWEH and Messiah.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Luk 2:11 For today is born to you in the city of David, the Savior, who is YAHWEH, the Messiah.

Psa 28:8 YAHWEH is their strength, and He is the fortress of Y'shua*, He is His Messiah.

Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Messiah according to flesh, He being YAHWEH over all, blessed forever. Amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Thus if the Father and the spirit = two people then how do you get 3?
Jesus said HE was sent by the father and spirit (again, do you have a problem counting?

So considering it is written in John 10:30 "I and my Father are one" then if the Son and the Father are one, then you basically have one personage.
Negative, It means him and the father are completely united. What he sees the father do, that he does also.

Likewise, it is written in John 6:63 in "... the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." then if the Word and the Spirit are one, you basically have another personage.
And in the same passage what dies he say? t is THE SPIRIT who gives life. And so many times jesus said the spirit is a person. So again, nice try, but you have a counting issue

Wouldn't that leave you one personage short? (Son and Father) + (Word and Spirit) = 2 personages not three. So if you remove the Son and/or the Word to create the third personage of the trinity then that kinda makes Jesus out to be a liar in either case.

However, remembering the doctrine of Ma and Pa Kettle which holds that 25% divided between 5 people is 14% each, then it would be fruitless to try to disprove the trinity doctrine of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one God
since the it is written in James 2:19; "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Whereas, he that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
See above. My origiona post showed 3 persons.. You have a math issue and a comprehenstion issue.



If you say so....

"And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them:..."
Mark 4:33-34
Jesus did not always speak in parables. Wow man, the depths you will go to try to prove your doctrine.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#46
This is all just so confusing to me.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is obviously referenced to a Triune God. And the Holy Spirit is referred to a "he" not an "it"....so how is the Holy Spirit not a person?

Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is a person. You haven't read New Testament well enough to know the Holy Spirit is a person.
Two does seem to be number to represent "one" throughout the scriptures.. He sent us out two by two, two by two they entered the Ark . David and Johnathon nit together as one soul. Mary and Martha, or Moses an Aaron, Deborah and Barak dynamic duels There are two needed to establish the government of God as a family.

The Holy Spirit is the unseen life of a person. To baptize in the name or authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would be to baptize with the spirit life of person in respect to two attributes of the same person .( Father, Son)

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Or it could say... I and my Father are of one Holy Spirit working together in perfect haromony and submissiveness to one another as one work of faith the labor of God's love by the baptism of essence of life of the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One Lord, one work of His one faith, working one baptism in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. Therefore giving them the faith to believe one God and the will to desire to do His will. as the food the disciples knew. not of .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
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#48
Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
i looked at the Greek just now, and the second "from" isn't literally in any of these verses. nor in any of the other verses in the OP

neither is there any punctuation in the original language. placement of commas is completely interpretive, not translational
Paul's characteristic greeting may as well read:


from God, our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

which is pretty interesting if you believe that Christ is God and that God is One _______:unsure:
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#50
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God.

One God who is a Holy Spirit, and that is why the Spirit moved in creation(Genesis 1:2), and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit(Matthew 1:20), and the Spirit dwells in the saints(John 14:26;Romans 8:9), and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus(Matthew 1:20-21), which He was made according to the flesh(Romans 1:,3-4), and made of a woman, made under the law(Galatians 4:4).

Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God, for He is the first plan God had before He started creation, who is the Word of God.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the world, and that plan was God manifest in the flesh.

All things were made with the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created, for Jesus is the reason creation is successful, eternal life, and judging people and the angels.

I believe there is one God, and Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are not 3 persons of a trinity, but the 3 ways God has a relationship with His children designated by titles.

Father- parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and in visible activity.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and in invisible activity.

But the same God with no distinction of persons, and Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

The name Jesus.

The Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them(Isaiah 52:5-6).

Jesus said He came in His Father's name(John 5:43).

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father, because there is only one God the Father, and Jesus is God manifest in flesh, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, the personal human body of God(Isaiah 9:6-7).

The prophet Agur asked the question, what is His name, and what is His Son's name if you can tell, meaning they would both share the same name(Proverbs 30:4).

Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father, and the words He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works(John 14:7-10).

The name of the Father is Jesus.

The Son inherited the name from the Father(Hebrews 1:4).

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus(John 14:26).

Jews(Acts 2:38), Samaritans(Acts 8:14-17), and Gentiles(Acts 19:1-5), were all baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus at the right had of God.

David said, the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool(Psalm 110:1).

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all(1 Corinthians 15:24-28).

Jesus is at the right hand of God(Psalms 110:1;Romans 8:34).

Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth(Matthew 28:18).



There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(2 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus is God manifest in flesh(1 Timothy 3:16).

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne(Revelation 4:2), which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus(Revelation 22:3-4).

Only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, but no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh as the Savior of the world, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

Since the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, and Mediator, God exalted the man Christ Jesus to be at His right hand, exercise the throne of power, until His enemies are conquered, and when His enemies are conquered, then there is no need for the Son to exercise the throne of power, and the Son shall submit to God, stop being at the right hand, stop exercising the throne of power, that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus, and if you have seen Him you have seen the Father.

Let us make man in our image.

Adam was created in the image of God(Genesis 1:26).

Adam was made in the figure of Him to come, Jesus(Romans 5:14).

The image of God is the image of Christ.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh, and created Adam in that image, which the image of God is the image of Christ.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, for He is part of that image.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

I believe there is only one God with no distinction of persons, and Jehovah was His name in the Old Testament, which represents physical deliverance, and Jesus in the New Testament, which represents spiritual deliverance.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Jesus is God manifest in flesh, which throws some people off for how can an omnipresent Spirit inhabit a human body, when the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God.

God manifest in the flesh means that God gave the fulness of His attributes to the Son, the man Christ Jesus, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated.

Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for the Spirit cannot be separated, and there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty spot in another where the Spirit is not at.

And the Spirit does not have to move for the Spirit is already there, and the man Christ Jesus moves through the Spirit, and whenever He is at the Spirit is there, the same with the saints they move through the Spirit.

Which can explain how Jesus can be God Himself, an invisible omnipresent Spirit, but still be God manifest in the flesh.

There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,732
3,559
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#51
When I Googled the subject "Trinity" it said that it was Tertullian who in the third century AD began to advocate that the Holy Spirit is a person.

I don't believe in the Trinity, the concept that there are THREE Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

I only believe that there are TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

There is God the Father of the Old Testament and there is God the Son.

As for God the Father:

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

(The above word "LORD" is the word "Yehova" in Hebrew)

And this God Jehova has a Son:

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.

But the most important Biblical evidence that there are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead is found in the letters of Paul.

At the beginning of ALL Paul's letters, Paul ONLY BRINGS GREETINGS to the Church from GOD THE FATHER and from the LORD JESUS CHRIST ... and then, Paul... STOPS! Let's look at those verses:

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colosse: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, my own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

NOW, if Paul had considered the Holy Spirit to be a Person, would not Paul also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit to the Church?

Indeed, the Bible says instead that the Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So clearly the Spirit is something that belongs to God the father and that belongs to God the Son.

Again, if anyone in the New Testament would have known whether the Holy Spirit was a person like God the Father and like God the Son ... Paul would have certainly known it and Paul would also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit and the reason Paul NEVER did is because Paul knew that the Holy Spirit was not a person.

There are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead, God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ.

It was Tertullian who in the third century AD floated the idea that the Holy Spirit was a person and the modern church has adopted it Hook, Line & Sinker.
Hello YehovaYeshua,

There are 3 in the Godhead:

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit.


Those that deny God the Holy Spirit have not received Him and therefore, do not know Him. Foolishly, they may even say He does not exist.

Those that have received Jesus/Yeshua, get the Father also and the Holy Spirit. It’s a package deal.

The letters Paul was writing were from God the Father and God the Son to the believers. The Holy Spirit was not mentioned because He does not speak on His own accord, rather He gives understanding to the hearers. Without God The Holy Spirit no one would understand what the Father and Son are saying or doing.

Jesus would only say and do what He heard His Father say and what He saw His Father do, BUT the understanding was ALWAYS from the Holy Spirit.

There are 3 and together They are ONE God.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#52
EDIT: One more thing, anyone can help me answer a unitarian question I CANNOT answer?
They ask: "Is there any God, other than Jesus Christ's God?"
No, if you have Jesus Christ you have the Father. No Christ, no Father.

Matt. 11:27
"All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." :cool:
 
Dec 10, 2018
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#53
Okay brothers and sisters I understand that posting about "only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead" as compared to the Trinity is a Bit Brazen for my first post, but at least i have established where I'm at about that.

And let me just say that there are websites that agree with me.

But without question, Trinitarianism is a very powerful lobby within Western Christianity.

Howbeit, I think the Holy Spirit is the POWER of God Jehova and the Holy Spirit is the SAME POWER in tbe Son of God Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the way that God Jehova and the Lord Jesus Christ communicate with His Christian people on earth.

It works just like Earthly Wi-Fi and cell phones ... I can send a text to my friend in Kansas and "at the speed of light" my tect arrived at my friend's phone in Kansas.

Is the same way the Holy Spirit is God's Divine Wi-Fi by which He sends His counsel and advice about every daily moment to His Christian people on earth.

To get counsel and advice from God's Holy Spirit again is what Jesus earned back for us on tbe cross and we-Christians are privileged to hear from the Spirit of God again, something which Adam and Eve Lost In the Garden of Eden.

Because our own spirit that we were born with is corrupt and we need the pure Holy Spirit counsel and advice from God and/or Jesus Christ to renew our minds.

Psalm 32:8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you shall go. And I will guide you with MY eye.

The moment-to-moment counsel and advice of God the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son of God Jesus Christ
God's counsel and advice is superior to our spirit's counsel because we can only see in part and know in part but God knows where everybody is located and what they are all "up to", so God's answers are always superior than ours.

And that's why we no longer rely on our own understanding because our own spirit is corrupt. And Jesus earned the right for us to be counseled by God's Holy Spirit again.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

God's Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ this is the divine Wi-Fi by which God speaks to us to teach us and counsel us and show us which way to go from moment to moment in our daily life, which privilege is what Jesus urgent back for us of the cross.

JehovaYeshua
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,529
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77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#54
Okay brothers and sisters I understand that posting about "only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead" as compared to the Trinity is a Bit Brazen for my first post, but at least i have established where I'm at about that.

And let me just say that there are websites that agree with me.

But without question, Trinitarianism is a very powerful lobby within Western Christianity.

Howbeit, I think the Holy Spirit is the POWER of God Jehova and the Holy Spirit is the SAME POWER in tbe Son of God Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the way that God Jehova and the Lord Jesus Christ communicate with His Christian people on earth.

It works just like Earthly Wi-Fi and cell phones ... I can send a text to my friend in Kansas and "at the speed of light" my tect arrived at my friend's phone in Kansas.

Is the same way the Holy Spirit is God's Divine Wi-Fi by which He sends His counsel and advice about every daily moment to His Christian people on earth.

To get counsel and advice from God's Holy Spirit again is what Jesus earned back for us on tbe cross and we-Christians are privileged to hear from the Spirit of God again, something which Adam and Eve Lost In the Garden of Eden.

Because our own spirit that we were born with is corrupt and we need the pure Holy Spirit counsel and advice from God and/or Jesus Christ to renew our minds.

Psalm 32:8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you shall go. And I will guide you with MY eye.

The moment-to-moment counsel and advice of God the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son of God Jesus Christ
God's counsel and advice is superior to our spirit's counsel because we can only see in part and know in part but God knows where everybody is located and what they are all "up to", so God's answers are always superior than ours.

And that's why we no longer rely on our own understanding because our own spirit is corrupt. And Jesus earned the right for us to be counseled by God's Holy Spirit again.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

God's Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ this is the divine Wi-Fi by which God speaks to us to teach us and counsel us and show us which way to go from moment to moment in our daily life, which privilege is what Jesus urgent back for us of the cross.

JehovaYeshua
I think all this labeling we do to define God is a mistake. There is a saying: "You label me, you limit me." If God came down and drew us pictures, we still probably would not grasp the makeup of the Godhead. To call any part of God a person is a misunderstanding in itself. The word person means "of a son."

Here to seem to relegate the HS as a communication tool. No, it is far more than that. The HS is what makes God-God. It is the omnipresence of God, at least. Probably more to all this than we can understand with our finite minds. We are not even sure what we will be like. The word says God is a Spirit (John 4:24), so we will be also. But we also will eat and drink in the kingdom. We will just have to trust God we will like what we become.

Matt. 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." :cool:
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#55
Anything that man has come up with to describe God is foolishness. God is not 1 or 2 or 3 in anything.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#56
When I Googled the subject "Trinity" it said that it was Tertullian who in the third century AD began to advocate that the Holy Spirit is a person.

I don't believe in the Trinity, the concept that there are THREE Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

I only believe that there are TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

There is God the Father of the Old Testament and there is God the Son.

As for God the Father:

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

(The above word "LORD" is the word "Yehova" in Hebrew)

And this God Jehova has a Son:

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.

But the most important Biblical evidence that there are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead is found in the letters of Paul.

At the beginning of ALL Paul's letters, Paul ONLY BRINGS GREETINGS to the Church from GOD THE FATHER and from the LORD JESUS CHRIST ... and then, Paul... STOPS! Let's look at those verses:

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colosse: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, my own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

NOW, if Paul had considered the Holy Spirit to be a Person, would not Paul also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit to the Church?

Indeed, the Bible says instead that the Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So clearly the Spirit is something that belongs to God the father and that belongs to God the Son.

Again, if anyone in the New Testament would have known whether the Holy Spirit was a person like God the Father and like God the Son ... Paul would have certainly known it and Paul would also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit and the reason Paul NEVER did is because Paul knew that the Holy Spirit was not a person.

There are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead, God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ.

It was Tertullian who in the third century AD floated the idea that the Holy Spirit was a person and the modern church has adopted it Hook, Line & Sinker.
False and I am fairly confident that Turtle guy does not set the standard for what is biblical.....especially since the first book of the bible and HEBREW proves 3 in 1.........

breath of LIVES<-plural in Hebrew<--3 or more!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#57
Howbeit, I think the Holy Spirit is the POWER of God Jehova and the Holy Spirit is the SAME POWER in tbe Son of God Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the way that God Jehova and the Lord Jesus Christ communicate with His Christian people on earth.

It works just like Earthly Wi-Fi and cell phones ... I can send a text to my friend in Kansas and "at the speed of light" my tect arrived at my friend's phone in Kansas.
Red:
That illustrates the gift of tongues very well for those who are debating the subject on another thread. You and your friends send and receive messages to each other in English, which is then translated into computer code for transmission. The message is then re-translated back into English at the other end so the recipient can understand it. Now, if the sender of the message is God the Father, and we do not have people with the gift of tongues (a cell phone) to give and receive God's message, just think what we are missing.

Now think about this, it is what you are saying. Instead of using computer code God himself came among us in the image of man and taught us personally (Jesus). On His ascension back into heaven he promised to send the Holy Spirit among us in His place, so that he might communicate with us directly. In this way we have the three persons of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are the three manifestations of the ONE God.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#58
I think all this labeling we do to define God is a mistake. There is a saying: "You label me, you limit me." If God came down and drew us pictures, we still probably would not grasp the makeup of the Godhead. To call any part of God a person is a misunderstanding in itself. The word person means "of a son."

Here to seem to relegate the HS as a communication tool. No, it is far more than that. The HS is what makes God-God. It is the omnipresence of God, at least. Probably more to all this than we can understand with our finite minds. We are not even sure what we will be like. The word says God is a Spirit (John 4:24), so we will be also. But we also will eat and drink in the kingdom. We will just have to trust God we will like what we become.

Matt. 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." :cool:
You make a good point. The Holy Spirit is not a communication tool, The Holy Spirit is Almighty God.

Sometimes though we need to use earthly examples as Jesus did. :)
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#59
Okay brothers and sisters I understand that posting about "only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead" as compared to the Trinity is a Bit Brazen for my first post, but at least i have established where I'm at about that.

And let me just say that there are websites that agree with me.

But without question, Trinitarianism is a very powerful lobby within Western Christianity.

Howbeit, I think the Holy Spirit is the POWER of God Jehova and the Holy Spirit is the SAME POWER in tbe Son of God Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the way that God Jehova and the Lord Jesus Christ communicate with His Christian people on earth.

It works just like Earthly Wi-Fi and cell phones ... I can send a text to my friend in Kansas and "at the speed of light" my tect arrived at my friend's phone in Kansas.

Is the same way the Holy Spirit is God's Divine Wi-Fi by which He sends His counsel and advice about every daily moment to His Christian people on earth.

To get counsel and advice from God's Holy Spirit again is what Jesus earned back for us on tbe cross and we-Christians are privileged to hear from the Spirit of God again, something which Adam and Eve Lost In the Garden of Eden.

Because our own spirit that we were born with is corrupt and we need the pure Holy Spirit counsel and advice from God and/or Jesus Christ to renew our minds.

Psalm 32:8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you shall go. And I will guide you with MY eye.

The moment-to-moment counsel and advice of God the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son of God Jesus Christ
God's counsel and advice is superior to our spirit's counsel because we can only see in part and know in part but God knows where everybody is located and what they are all "up to", so God's answers are always superior than ours.

And that's why we no longer rely on our own understanding because our own spirit is corrupt. And Jesus earned the right for us to be counseled by God's Holy Spirit again.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

God's Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ this is the divine Wi-Fi by which God speaks to us to teach us and counsel us and show us which way to go from moment to moment in our daily life, which privilege is what Jesus urgent back for us of the cross.

JehovaYeshua
Way to stir up the hornet nest. Many here are steadfast in their beliefs and there is no “adding to understanding”, in fear of blasphemy. I however am always seeking greater understanding into the mysteries of God. I came to a similar conclusion as to what you propose but tweaked it slightly. In trying to understand the unseen, we use the imagery of the seen to gain clarity. Like Christ used parables of farming to farmers, and you use the wifi to explain the Holy Spirit. Let me ask you this; how do you perceive the human body? Is it the spirit/soul that is the life force? Is it the brain and hypothalamus coordinating function, and purpose? What is in control? Who is our identity? Are we a collection of our thoughts and programming or does the brain just process the information and our soul interprets and commands the brain to signal the body to react? Or, are we all of this?