"things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

I'm not sure I can fully answer this. I see what you are getting at. I've always read this passage and assumed that it was referring to eternal life in heaven. From the way I've read the verses, I've always seen these types as being those who live and abide in sin with no concern. To me, that would be the attitude of one that does not truly love Christ nor respect his sacrifice and grace. I would see that attitude as a failure to truly believe in Christ. I wouldn't see they had met the criteria for eternal life (faith in Christ). I could be wrong, but I always look at the tone of the passage. When it is very corrective and strong it seems to imply that the listeners need a strong wake up call. Those who are broken or at their wits end struggling don't need such a strong admonition.

I agree with your second point. We can only truly be freed from sin by focusing on Christ and seeking grace. We can't be saved from ourselves through resolve only. So yes, I believe that legalism frustrates and alienates many. Legalism is also a lack of faith in Christ.

Having a Pentecostal background - I too heard that this meant "for going to heaven". I am not sold on that idea now.

The verse in Gal. 5:21 says that those that "do" these things - and to make it worse - it says "things like these".

If our eternal destination was based on "things like these" - I would think to know exactly what "these things are" would be handy piece of information to have....selah

The verse doesn't say "To those that don't want to do something" - it says that they "do" these things. So, take a person that has outbursts of anger or is stuck in gluttony and doesn't know how to stop it. They have even tried all sorts of things but they still "do" the same things.

These people according to the theory that they do not go to heaven - would not go to heaven even though they are declared justified by the blood of Jesus.

There must be more to this "inheriting the kingdom" than meets the causal eye.

I view it this way. The kingdom of God is within us Paul says. It is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

If I don't have peace or joy - does that mean I am not experiencing the kingdom in my life because of the way I think?

My worrying is short circuiting the peace and joy of the kingdom of God from manifesting in my life while I am on this earth because of my un-renewed mind.

What do you think?

 

[PinkDiamond]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Having a Pentecostal background - I too heard that this meant "for going to heaven". I am not sold on that idea now.

The verse in Gal. 5:21 says that those that "do" these things - and to make it worse - it says "things like these".

If our eternal destination was based on "things like these" - I would think to know exactly what "these things are" would be handy piece of information to have....selah

The verse doesn't say "To those that don't want to do something" - it says that they "do" these things. So, take a person that has outbursts of anger or is stuck in gluttony and doesn't know how to stop it. They have even tried all sorts of things but they still "do" the same things.

These people according to the theory that they do not go to heaven - would not go to heaven even though they are declared justified by the blood of Jesus.

There must be more to this "inheriting the kingdom" than meets the causal eye.

I view it this way. The kingdom of God is within us Paul says. It is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

If I don't have peace or joy - does that mean I am not experiencing the kingdom in my life because of the way I think?

My worrying is short circuiting the peace and joy of the kingdom of God from manifesting in my life while I am on this earth because of my un-renewed mind.

What do you think?

I agree with your point that we won't experience the kingdom in our life if we don't have peace or joy. That's definitely true. I'm honestly not sure where to draw the line between sin that a person may succumb to regularly and sin that they "do" or practice. Perhaps this is best left to God who is a discerner of thoughts and hearts. Sometimes it's not evident to onlookers that a person belongs to God (because they are a very weak Christian ) and other times we can assume that someone who hasn't been converted is a believer because they say and do the right things outwardly. Honestly, I wish this was more cut and dry. It would make it easier

My focus as a Christian isn't on avoiding sin to ensure my salvation. I believe in perseverance of the saints, but not entirely with OSAS as it often gets explained. I guess my focus is on trusting God to keep me on the right path, and to seek him to help me not do the things he hates. What worries me at times are all the arguments over what sin or things we can or can't do and still maintain salvation. I think this puts too much emphasis on our salvation and less on being transformed by Christ. Perhaps, we can still make it to heaven having never overcome in this life, but that isn't optimal or the goal. I also think how saddening it will be to die and realize how many opportunities we missed to reach others and be a good witness for Christ. He forgives us, but we still have to live with that and miss out on rewards.

 

[88]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

That is probably true---but I would not want "hell on Earth" either---which would be the result of following our flesh---I don't tell people they would be cut off from Christ for persisting in the flesh willfully---but I also warn them I would not want to find out I was wrong and people lost their salvation----whether we can lose our salvation is a good debate---but not something worth discovering by experience...Grace and Peace

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

I think the same way as some of these comments. I believe that we need to hear the gospel of the grace of God in Christ every day for it is the power of God for salvation which includes the quality of life we can experience while here on this earth.

Peace and joy are greater things than money or "things" so I am not talking about that although the Lord does provide for us in all things but these are the lesser of the things of God.

Thanks for those that offered their thoughts.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

I agree with your point that we won't experience the kingdom in our life if we don't have peace or joy. That's definitely true. I'm honestly not sure where to draw the line between sin that a person may succumb to regularly and sin that they "do" or practice. Perhaps this is best left to God who is a discerner of thoughts and hearts. Sometimes it's not evident to onlookers that a person belongs to God (because they are a very weak Christian ) and other times we can assume that someone who hasn't been converted is a believer because they say and do the right things outwardly. Honestly, I wish this was more cut and dry. It would make it easier

My focus as a Christian isn't on avoiding sin to ensure my salvation. I believe in perseverance of the saints, but not entirely with OSAS as it often gets explained. I guess my focus is on trusting God to keep me on the right path, and to seek him to help me not do the things he hates. What worries me at times are all the arguments over what sin or things we can or can't do and still maintain salvation. I think this puts too much emphasis on our salvation and less on being transformed by Christ. Perhaps, we can still make it to heaven having never overcome in this life, but that isn't optimal or the goal. I also think how saddening it will be to die and realize how many opportunities we missed to reach others and be a good witness for Christ. He forgives us, but we still have to live with that and miss out on rewards.

I agree...keep our eyes on the One who loves us unconditionally and has provided the grace and life which is only found in Christ alone.

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Huge Difference Between Entering & Inheriting the Kingdom

Another way of saying all of this is that all Christians are heirs of God (they are assured of eternal life and a place in the kingdom of heaven), but not all Christians will “inherit” the kingdom from Him (and receive positions of authority in that kingdom).

Being an heir is unconditional, but being a co-ruler with Christ is conditioned upon our spiritual obedience and faithfulness. We cannot lose our eternal life, but we can lose a position of authority in His kingdom. This is the basic difference between a Christian who will only dwell in the kingdom of heaven and one who will inherit or rule over it. The latter will actually participate in the coming glory of Christ.

So, there’s a huge difference between simply entering the kingdom and inheriting it. They’re not the same thing at all! We enter (Strong’s #1525, to come into) the kingdom because of our new birth and because we have received God’s Spirit. But, we inherit that kingdom (Strong’s #2816, obtain, receive or possess it) as a “reward” for an obedient and faithful lifestyle here on earth. It’s the prize for being an overcomer and for making choices to live Christ’s Life.

Again, we won’t do this perfectly, but at least we will be recognizing our choices, repenting of our sins, and choosing to fol-low Christ as best we can.

He who receives God’s Spirit (through Jesus Christ) enters the kingdom; but he who partakes of Christ’s Life and over-comes the world, the flesh and the devil will inherit that kingdom. Thus, the Millennial Kingdom will be inhabited by born-again Christians, but ruled over by faithful and obedient overcoming Christians.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Huge Difference Between Entering & Inheriting the Kingdom

Another way of saying all of this is that all Christians are heirs of God (they are assured of eternal life and a place in the kingdom of heaven), but not all Christians will “inherit” the kingdom from Him (and receive positions of authority in that kingdom).

Being an heir is unconditional, but being a co-ruler with Christ is conditioned upon our spiritual obedience and faithfulness. We cannot lose our eternal life, but we can lose a position of authority in His kingdom. This is the basic difference between a Christian who will only dwell in the kingdom of heaven and one who will inherit or rule over it. The latter will actually participate in the coming glory of Christ.

So, there’s a huge difference between simply entering the kingdom and inheriting it. They’re not the same thing at all! We enter (Strong’s #1525, to come into) the kingdom because of our new birth and because we have received God’s Spirit. But, we inherit that kingdom (Strong’s #2816, obtain, receive or possess it) as a “reward” for an obedient and faithful lifestyle here on earth. It’s the prize for being an overcomer and for making choices to live Christ’s Life.

Again, we won’t do this perfectly, but at least we will be recognizing our choices, repenting of our sins, and choosing to fol-low Christ as best we can.

He who receives God’s Spirit (through Jesus Christ) enters the kingdom; but he who partakes of Christ’s Life and over-comes the world, the flesh and the devil will inherit that kingdom. Thus, the Millennial Kingdom will be inhabited by born-again Christians, but ruled over by faithful and obedient overcoming Christians.

By Pastor Tony Evans

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

What are others thoughts on the "works of the flesh" in Gal. 5:19-21.

I will give you my own thoughts on this subject up front.

If our "eternal security" is based on not doing the works of the flesh as some try to preach - you would think that the term "things like these" would be qualified because don't you think we should know what "these things are"? - if they are going to throw us into hell?

In Gal 5 - "strife" is one in the list too as well as "things like these". What are those things? If someone doesn't know exactly "what exactly these things are" they would go to hell with the interpretation that the list in Gal. 5:19-21 means not going to heaven.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

[SUP]21 [/SUP] envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheriting the kingdom of God is not meaning "to go to heaven" in these scriptures. It means to live the quality of life that is in the kingdom now on this earth. The kingdom of God is within us now.

If we live by the flesh we will not receive the benefits that are ours in Christ as sin will distort our view of God, ourselves and others. We need to view Gal 5:19-25 in context with the fruit of the Spirit that brings life to us here on this earth.

So...you're saying that to not inherit the kingdom of God just means you'll lose out on blessings here but that you really still will inherit the kingdom of God? So...you will only not inherit the kingdom of God for a temporary period of time if you do these things, but then later, you will still inherit? This is confusing.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

So...you're saying that to not inherit the kingdom of God just means you'll lose out on blessings here but that you really still will inherit the kingdom of God? So...you will only not inherit the kingdom of God for a temporary period of time if you do these things, but then later, you will still inherit? This is confusing.

The Greek word "inherit" means "to obtain" or "to share in".

Let me ask you a question - if you live in worry as a Christian and you die - will you go to heaven?

Paul said that the kingdom of God is within us - and it is righteousness, peace and joy.

If we don't experience peace here on this earth and we die - do we still go to heaven? We did not "share in" or "obtain" the peace while we were here on this earth for whatever reason as this peace is the kingdom of God.

If Gal. 5:19-21 means that we don't go to heaven because of the works of the flesh - then it would be very important to know what "things like these" are because that term is included in the works of the flesh.

Just what are "these things" that will send us to hell? ( other than the ones named in the list in Gal. 5:19-21 )

Because heaven or hell depends on us knowing what "these things are" if inheriting the kingdom means going to heaven when we die. Don't you think?

I am thinking out loud about - just what does it mean to "inherit the kingdom of God" and asking for other's thoughts on it.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

So...you're saying that to not inherit the kingdom of God just means you'll lose out on blessings here but that you really still will inherit the kingdom of God? So...you will only not inherit the kingdom of God for a temporary period of time if you do these things, but then later, you will still inherit? This is confusing.

It's not so confusing when you consider he teaching borderline Universalism. Everybody goes, but only some inherit.

 

[pottersclay]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Could it be that Paul is addressing people that have added Christ to there life which is not scriptural.
We are called to lose our life, to seek first the kingdom of God.
In other words religion instead of relationship? Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. Being sorry for sin is not enough we need to turn from it, to flee from it as Joseph did. It seems with the description Paul has given his concern is that some have not given there lifestyle up but have added in Jesus. No conversion just religion.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 21:43[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.[/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Nonsense and deceitful lies. I have always said that people need to believe the gospel in order to receive what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection.

This is the very kind of deceitfulness is the reason I don't interact with those that display this type of foul behavior on a continual basis.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Nonsense and deceitful lies. I have always said that people need to believe the gospel in order to receive what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection.

This is the very kind of deceitfulness is the reason I don't interact with those that display this type of foul behavior on a continual basis.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

I can't believe you're saying believers are going to Heaven, but some have been disinherited, yet are still going. That's an oxymoron.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

It's not so confusing when you consider he teaching borderline Universalism. Everybody goes, but only some inherit.

I am begging you to please, please stop. We don't get anywhere with this kind of talk. If we discuss politely, we are able to struggle though with the Spirits help and come to some unity and leave really blessed and having been a blessing.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

The Greek word "inherit" means "to obtain" or "to share in".

Let me ask you a question - if you live in worry as a Christian and you die - will you go to heaven?

Paul said that the kingdom of God is within us - and it is righteousness, peace and joy.

If we don't experience peace here on this earth and we die - do we still go to heaven? We did not "share in" or "obtain" the peace while we were here on this earth for whatever reason as this peace is the kingdom of God.

If Gal. 5:19-21 means that we don't go to heaven because of the works of the flesh - then it would be very important to know what "things like these" are because that term is included in the works of the flesh.

Just what are "these things" that will send us to hell? ( other than the ones named in the list in Gal. 5:19-21 )

Because heaven or hell depends on us knowing what "these things are" if inheriting the kingdom means going to heaven when we die. Don't you think?

I am thinking out loud about - just what does it mean to "inherit the kingdom of God" and asking for other's thoughts on it.

There is extreme depth to this all. I'm going to fight my tendency to feel like I have to cover every single thing in one post.
So in your example about worrying - if I spend the rest of my life always worrying about maybe losing my job, or about how my IRA has tanked and I will never be able to retire - I am not trusting what Jesus said. So then, I am in unbelief. If I was in belief, I wouldn't be eaten with worry over these things that He said unbelievers worry about.

So, He shows me that I am a hypocrite and a liar because I say I follow Jesus and trust Him, but then proceed to show by my worry that I am NOT trusting and believing what He said about just seeking Him first and all these things would be added to me and God knows what I have need of and will see to it.

So if Israel couldn't enter the place God prepared for them because of unbelief, will my unbelief be okay?

Not going to cover every single point and angle with this one post. Stopping here.

 

[Depleted]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

What are others thoughts on the "works of the flesh" in Gal. 5:19-21.

I will give you my own thoughts on this subject up front.

If our "eternal security" is based on not doing the works of the flesh as some try to preach - you would think that the term "things like these" would be qualified because don't you think we should know what "these things are"? - if they are going to throw us into hell?

In Gal 5 - "strife" is one in the list too as well as "things like these". What are those things? If someone doesn't know exactly "what exactly these things are" they would go to hell with the interpretation that the list in Gal. 5:19-21 means not going to heaven.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

[SUP]21 [/SUP] envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheriting the kingdom of God is not meaning "to go to heaven" in these scriptures. It means to live the quality of life that is in the kingdom now on this earth. The kingdom of God is within us now.

If we live by the flesh we will not receive the benefits that are ours in Christ as sin will distort our view of God, ourselves and others. We need to view Gal 5:19-25 in context with the fruit of the Spirit that brings life to us here on this earth.

Eternal security is based on Jesus.

 

[Depleted]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

So...you're saying that to not inherit the kingdom of God just means you'll lose out on blessings here but that you really still will inherit the kingdom of God? So...you will only not inherit the kingdom of God for a temporary period of time if you do these things, but then later, you will still inherit? This is confusing.

The Catholics call it purgatory.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

The Catholics call it purgatory.

Interesting...
I was reading the complete works of John of the Cross and his writing has really helped me, but he briefly mentions purgatory and a few other things of the catholic church, though he mostly talks about...sanctification and growing perfection through the Spirits work.

It does sound a bit like their idea of purgatory...

Where've you been and good morning, by the way!

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

There is extreme depth to this all. I'm going to fight my tendency to feel like I have to cover every single thing in one post.
So in your example about worrying - if I spend the rest of my life always worrying about maybe losing my job, or about how my IRA has tanked and I will never be able to retire - I am not trusting what Jesus said. So then, I am in unbelief. If I was in belief, I wouldn't be eaten with worry over these things that He said unbelievers worry about.

So, He shows me that I am a hypocrite and a liar because I say I follow Jesus and trust Him, but then proceed to show by my worry that I am NOT trusting and believing what He said about just seeking Him first and all these things would be added to me and God knows what I have need of and will see to it.

So if Israel couldn't enter the place God prepared for them because of unbelief, will my unbelief be okay?

Not going to cover every single point and angle with this one post. Stopping here.

Good thoughts. ..

I see the promised land as a type of living the fullness that is in Christ. Moses didn't get into the promised land either but yet he is with God now. There is a lot to this as you said in it's depth. I agree with you - it's best to get rid of all unbelief - as their is no rest in that.

I was going for the idea that we in this life will not experience some aspects of the kingdom of God - like peace. I'm just thinking out loud and wondering about what it means to inherit the kingdom - or participate in it's benefits.

Maybe it's like a young child has everything his father has as an inheritance but until he grows up - he would be able to use the car. So, altho he is heir of all - he doesn't get to participate in some aspects of it. Gal.4:1-9 talks "in principle" about this.

I hope I am articulating what I am seeing inside of me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: "things like these..."..What does this mean? Does heaven or hell depend on it?

Good thoughts. ..

I see the promised land as a type of living the fullness that is in Christ. Moses didn't get into the promised land either but yet he is with God now. There is a lot to this as you said in it's depth. I agree with you - it's best to get rid of all unbelief - as their is no rest in that.

I was going for the idea that we in this life will not experience some aspects of the kingdom of God - like peace. I'm just thinking out loud and wondering about what it means to inherit the kingdom - or participate in it's benefits.

Maybe it's like a young child has everything his father has as an inheritance but until he grows up - he would be able to use the car. So, altho he is heir of all - he doesn't get to participate in some aspects of it. Gal.4:1-9 talks "in principle" about this.

I hope I am articulating what I am seeing inside of me.

Yes, I see what you are saying.
And there is always that pesky tension in EVERYTHING.
Because then you come upon verses (spoken to believers, not unbelievers) that says to take care and keep watch that your heart does not become evil and hardened through unbelief, because if Israel couldn't enter because of unbelief, neither will you.

It's a race of believing, trust, faith. And then He shows me an area of mistrust and unbelief and I struggle with it, sometimes daily, to continue in trust (abide). And sometimes I'm abiding (trusting, believing) and sometimes I'm not, when worry gets me. When I'm abiding (trusting and believing what He's said) I don't sin. But when I stop abiding, I am sinning. I go back and forth in it until it's conquered. And then He decides I can bear more and He shows me another area of mistrust, unbelief, hypocrisy. But He allows times of rest too.