Thinking out of the box but within the Word of God

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revken1

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2017
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#1
Is this a paradox within the Church? Has anyone here thought out of the box and didn't share it for established ideologies kept you from speaking out?
I would like to see others point of view even as it is backed up with Scripture. Remember the Word is alive.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#2
You're asking if people ever have doctrinal ideas which differ from orthodoxy, but they keep quiet for fear of ridicule?

Is that your question?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#3
Has anyone here thought out of the box and didn't share it for established ideologies kept you from speaking out?
Yes. No point in casting pearls before swine, so to speak. Paul mentioned that he knew things that it was not permissible to openly talk about.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,599
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#4
Is this a paradox within the Church? Has anyone here thought out of the box and didn't share it for established ideologies kept you from speaking out?
I would like to see others point of view even as it is backed up with Scripture. Remember the Word is alive.
Sure...........absolute truth.......the bible is full of wonderful truth....some plainly given, some partially hidden and some alluded to...each successive "levels of understanding" is preceded by foundational truths....one cannot know or even begin to glimpse the partially hidden and or alluded to truths unless they have had a very solid factual foundation first.....The comparison is akin to standing on your tip toes and trying to reach something just out of reach yet the tips of your fingers can barely scrape it's surface....it is there, you know it is there, you can feel it, but you just cannot grasp it and bring it down.....but after a period of time, a loooooong stretch you grasp it and the proverbial "light bulb" does on.........

There are things that I believe that are alluded to and or are partially exposed in scriptures that can been seen and gleaned over time and after much study and prayer.......truths that most would reject, deny and or flat refuse....the absolute truth is....MOST in churches do not study the word, much less read it.....the bible sits exactly where it gets placed after church on Sunday morning and rarely gets picked up, much less studied in depth........!
 

revken1

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2017
26
2
3
#5
You're asking if people ever have doctrinal ideas which differ from orthodoxy, but they keep quiet for fear of ridicule?

Is that your question?
yes
 

revken1

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2017
26
2
3
#6
Yes. No point in casting pearls before swine, so to speak. Paul mentioned that he knew things that it was not permissible to openly talk about.
so are you saying you wish to add yours?
 
Mar 6, 2018
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#7
2 Corinthians 3 King James Version (KJV)
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 

revken1

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2017
26
2
3
#8
Sure...........absolute truth.......the bible is full of wonderful truth....some plainly given, some partially hidden and some alluded to...each successive "levels of understanding" is preceded by foundational truths....one cannot know or even begin to glimpse the partially hidden and or alluded to truths unless they have had a very solid factual foundation first.....The comparison is akin to standing on your tip toes and trying to reach something just out of reach yet the tips of your fingers can barely scrape it's surface....it is there, you know it is there, you can feel it, but you just cannot grasp it and bring it down.....but after a period of time, a loooooong stretch you grasp it and the proverbial "light bulb" does on.........

There are things that I believe that are alluded to and or are partially exposed in scriptures that can been seen and gleaned over time and after much study and prayer.......truths that most would reject, deny and or flat refuse....the absolute truth is....MOST in churches do not study the word, much less read it.....the bible sits exactly where it gets placed after church on Sunday morning and rarely gets picked up, much less studied in depth........!
I have studied both Word of God and other biblical studies that back up the Word. I came up with a saying, "There is truth in all things but not everything is the Truth".
 
Mar 6, 2018
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#9
So is it impossible for the Holy Spirit within us to divide ALL truth?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,326
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#10
Because of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, I believe we are all just as He, praisers of Yahweh. The word for this would be Jews.

We are the Israel of God, Yahweh because of Jesus Christ's blood and adoption.

Our roots are in the Word therefore our roots are Hebrew, though we are not of that named denomination.

I believe our roots are Hebrew because we are taught the faith of Abraham, and we have learned the Gospel that was first presented to Abraham. Abraham is the first Hebrew, the frist from across the river.....

We will all cross the Jordanone day and enter into the Promised Land.....the Kingdom of God.

There are people who believe Jesus Christ in all walks of life, and in all the religions and non-religions with the truth inscribed on their hearts with their own consciences accusing and excusing them as they act......Jesus knows who they all are, not we.

God has declared it so in many ways, one of which is "So what if I justify the ungodly!"

As long as we do not judge unto condemnation we are not judged for we forgive, but we would be hypocrites were we not to judge for ourselves what is right. The foundation words of that thought are "for ourselves." Something can be forbidden for each of us but not for others....do not judge to condemn.

Once we know Jesus, Yeshua, it is impossible to deny Him.......He is our Lord, Gd and Salvation, there can be no other, amen
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#11
There lies a risk for some that once treading off the beaten path they get lost. This is not to say that we shouldn't adventure, but we must know our foundation so that when error, or heresy, presents itself it is dismissed. If people do not have their foundation, and are not grounded in that truth, to think outside the box would be leaving their mind so open that their brain falls out.

It isn't wrong to think outside the so called "box", but we must be careful that what we put in the box doesn't contaminate it. As scripture says, a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Galatians 5:9). Set your foundation, that is Jesus Christ, and let it not be cracked.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#12
Something that seems controversial, is to say that "revelation is progressive." Steeped in tradition and religiosity, people are afraid to consider there is yet more to learn. Whether that be truths relevant to our covenant (new) with God, or things of the Spirit. Whether it be how we serve God today under grace, or are sanctified by God and not morality. Who said the box needed to be taped shut? Truth is objective, and as we continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, that box ever expands.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,172
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#13
we must climb His ladder moment to moment...

PHI. 3:14.
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#14
Something that seems controversial, is to say that "revelation is progressive." Steeped in tradition and religiosity, people are afraid to consider there is yet more to learn. Whether that be truths relevant to our covenant (new) with God, or things of the Spirit. Whether it be how we serve God today under grace, or are sanctified by God and not morality. Who said the box needed to be taped shut? Truth is objective, and as we continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, that box ever expands.
revelation is progressive...I would add the caveat of 'within scripture'

people often say they have read a certain verse or passage many times but somehow suddenly saw much more to it then previously thought

I would have zero plus zero to do with much of the so called 'revelations' being passed around by so called nouveau prophets of a certain movement that prefer the realm outside of orthodoxy and I do not mean stale religion here

I mean the Trinity, the gifts of the Spirit and other time tested truth that some twist and others reject outright

yes truth is objective but it seems most cannot even agree on what is plainly written

all I know is I have had my life altered a good number of times by coming to understand more of what God has revealed

often when people say 'outside of the box' they mean something subjective but who knows until they spill the beans on what they actually mean
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#15
I see it this way, The bible says to test all spirit. we should never blindly follow any man, or any denominational assembly in all things (I consider orthodoxy and catholicism a denomination). I used to blindly follow my pastors (a sect of baptist) blindly, and it led to alot of trouble and years of issues. It was when I did what was said (test all spirits) that I found some of what I was told was not true, even since I have been in CC I have changed my vews on a few subject, and am questioning my view on a few others.

we have to remember Rome held power for centuries, and even after the reformation, much of romans truths came with them. Some are die hard reformers, Some are die hard catholics. Some have learned to set tradition aside and actually study, and found things that troubled them. and ever sins, the attack of each other has gotten crazy, and keeps getting worse. We need to remember there is set doctrine which can not be set aside (the gospel of Christ, there is only one, what is sin and what is not sin, etc etc) yet most of the others (when the rapture happens, How old the earth is, Do we speak in tongues today, etc etc) are non essential and not really worth arguing over.

many churches have changed their view of what physical church looks like (sunday service, and discipleship/cell and home groups) but they did not change their doctrines, Yet they are being hated by many because they stopped following tradition. and the war is not only angry, but fierce and hateful, And this is sad.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,635
3,574
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#16
I see it this way, The bible says to test all spirit. we should never blindly follow any man, or any denominational assembly in all things (I consider orthodoxy and catholicism a denomination). I used to blindly follow my pastors (a sect of baptist) blindly, and it led to alot of trouble and years of issues. It was when I did what was said (test all spirits) that I found some of what I was told was not true, even since I have been in CC I have changed my vews on a few subject, and am questioning my view on a few others.

we have to remember Rome held power for centuries, and even after the reformation, much of romans truths came with them. Some are die hard reformers, Some are die hard catholics. Some have learned to set tradition aside and actually study, and found things that troubled them. and ever sins, the attack of each other has gotten crazy, and keeps getting worse. We need to remember there is set doctrine which can not be set aside (the gospel of Christ, there is only one, what is sin and what is not sin, etc etc) yet most of the others (when the rapture happens, How old the earth is, Do we speak in tongues today, etc etc) are non essential and not really worth arguing over.

many churches have changed their view of what physical church looks like (sunday service, and discipleship/cell and home groups) but they did not change their doctrines, Yet they are being hated by many because they stopped following tradition. and the war is not only angry, but fierce and hateful, And this is sad.
great post! nailed it!

if I could add one thing- Christians need to read the Bible, all the way through, several times. if one understands chronological order, and context, false teaching can quickly be picked up on.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#17
great post! nailed it!

if I could add one thing- Christians need to read the Bible, all the way through, several times. if one understands chronological order, and context, false teaching can quickly be picked up on.
I agree, but if we do it, we have to take our denominational glasses off and just read, and study whit no preconceived notions. and if we come to a passage we see which seems to contradict our belief, Study it and see why.. knowing you may have been taught wrong.
 
Mar 6, 2018
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#18
Why do we still rely on ourselves for understanding!!!!!!! Reading the Bible several times over is not going to change the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one who tells us what is true or not. As a matter of fact you read and read and read and read and read and read. I will be feeding the poor, helping every single person I see in need, whatever means they are without. THE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP HAS BEEN USING THE BIBLE TO STAY LAZY IN THE WORKS OF GOD! taking single scriptures like "we are not saved by works" and twisting it to make it sound like we don't have work to do...Just read and read and read and read and read, and be a snappy scripture quoter. If you want to read something over and over Read Matthew Chapter 7 and Matthew Chapter 25. It's like Christianity has turned into some sort of poetry club. I wish the Lord would blind me, so that I could not see His word, but hear it by the Spirit only, so that others could understand the under-rated power of the Holy Ghost which is all power.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
783
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#19
the Holy Spirit is the one who tells us what is true or not.
It's funny that Holy Spirit filled believers can read the same passage, pray to the same God for understanding, receive understanding from the Holy Spirit, and yet come up with completely opposite opinions of what God is saying.

I think a lot of the problem comes into play when, confronted by seemingly contradictory scriptures and unable to wrap their heads around how both can be true, they instead choose one scripture and use it to refute the other scripture(s).

Sometimes it takes 'out of the box' thinking to encompass all scriptures as one.
 
Mar 14, 2011
68,741
14,478
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#20
Why do we still rely on ourselves for understanding!!!!!!! Reading the Bible several times over is not going to change the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one who tells us what is true or not. As a matter of fact you read and read and read and read and read and read. I will be feeding the poor, helping every single person I see in need, whatever means they are without. THE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP HAS BEEN USING THE BIBLE TO STAY LAZY IN THE WORKS OF GOD! taking single scriptures like "we are not saved by works" and twisting it to make it sound like we don't have work to do...Just read and read and read and read and read, and be a snappy scripture quoter. If you want to read something over and over Read Matthew Chapter 7 and Matthew Chapter 25. It's like Christianity has turned into some sort of poetry club. I wish the Lord would blind me, so that I could not see His word, but hear it by the Spirit only, so that others could understand the under-rated power of the Holy Ghost which is all power.
who said anything about relying on self

the goal is to not be man followers bug be god followers. two people can read the same passage and come up with different vies, and both claim the HS taught them, Two denominations can come up wiht the same two apposing views. What do we do then Listen to man (the denomination) or ask God to help us understand?

th eproblem wiht people is they become man followers. and tradition followers. and are unable to see the truth in areas where they have been led astray