THIRD TEMPLE NEWS

[heartofdavid]

Your entitled to your opinion. But it is just that, your opinion. If as you claim Dispensationalism as believed by Darby was around for so long how come such a vital teaching was not mentioned by none of the leading Church fathers or anyone else for nineteen hundred years. Were they all so incompetent and spiritually blind that none of them noticed it in their Bibles? Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit ignored people like Luther, Calvin, Wesley and Spurgeon but popularised it by using a cultist like Derby and a convicted defrauder like Scofield? As I write there are millions of Christians who do not believe
in it. You should get around more.

As for me not listening, perhaps you should check out who you are listening to.

Its not the Bibles inerrency that is the issue. Its your interpretation of it that I take issue with

Ok,lets play your darby deal out.

You say (incorrectly) there was no rapture teaching placing the gathering pretrib.(and remember , some,if not most of your dead men were AMILLINEAL).
Your pinnacle of "truth" HAS TO RIDE on your imposed INFALLABILITY of your dead men.
IOW they HAVE to be right.

OK,so what you are invoking is "rule of first belief" ,"since they ,the dead men,believed it FIRST ,and they ,under your dynamic,were infallible , your next "logical" conclusion is ,it HAS TO BE RIGHT.

Well,you also have to believe Jesus is NOT THE MESSIAH. Because the Jews believed that FIRST.(that Jesus is an impostor)

Once we play out your "rule of first belief",we can see it is totally made up in your mind.

 

[heartofdavid]

What you are talking about is not the dispensationalism Darby invented, and what the Pre Trib rapture and the separate salvation plans for Jews and the Church is included in. His was an artificial system imposed on the Bible. He considered there to be seven ages but since then the number has varied depending on who you ask five is a favorite alternative. Different ages have been believed in before Darby and are in the Bible but not as a rigid system.

Speaking of Acts have you read the following......

And he shall send Jesus Christ who before was preached to you
Whom the heaven must receive until the time of restitution
of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his
holy Prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:21

Christ is to remain in heaven until the restitution of all things spoken of by the Prophets
How does that account for a two part second coming when after the rapture there would be
another seven years before he returned. Was Peter and the Prophets lying or did they forget
that he was going to make a secret trip before hand?

There is only one second coming. This has been taught by the church
for centuries and still is. When he returns the resurrection will occur and
those alive will meet him in the air and escort him to earth. In Jude it says
that he will come with thousands of his saints. These are the righteous dead
who receive immortal bodies at his coming and are now with him in heaven

It is you and your friends that invoke Darby,secret,1800's ,McDonald,etc.

No pretribber knows much of anything about those components to your doctrine.
You need them to make your point,we DO NOT.

Please stop being deceitful.

 

[heartofdavid]

No pretribber knows much of anything about those components to your doctrine.

I find it amusing that postribbers have "darby and co" as their main doctrinal component.

Too funny,and actually poetic justice.

 

[tanakh]

Tanakh: just wanted you to see that your (Hatred for Darby) may have been clouding your minds eyes. The Rapture is really not a part of how one is saved. It is a result.

I urge you to do this: Find yourself a quite place, sit down and talk to Jesus. You by now know the routine. Rem It is by Faith and Faith ALONE that one is saved. Faith and Faith Alone..... If you are true of heart, He will know and will send you the Holy SPirit who will teach, guide and protect you until "whatever happens" in the end days or you die of a ripe old age.

I urge you to not listen to the preterist and Idealist who call God a liar and twist his words to their pleasure and lifestyles.


Oh, and quite being so salty all the time. lol

I have already received the Holy Spirit.
I do not hate Darby, I hate his teaching. I believe it is satanic and will lead to thousands being killed or falling away in the tribulation when they are not raptured. This is not speculation. It happened in China under the communists. Christians died there because they were told they would be raptured and made no preparation to escape. Corrie Ten Boon speaks of this in one of her writings, having been sent to a concentration camp for helping Jews to escape she had no reason to lie about it. I believe people have been deluded into believing this.
Few know the history behind this teaching and if they did they wouldn't go near it.

 

[Persuaded]

NO WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT. WE BELIEVE THAT THE Parable of 10 Virgins is an exact Picture of what Christ Calling Out His Bride will be LIKE. BOTH GROUPS are Christians, 50% are READY and Watching for their Bridegroom Jesus Christ to send His Archangel ahead to SHOUT and Call Out the Bride, THUS we will be invited to the Wedding as Part of the Bride. The OTHER 50% will be left behind, to become part of the martyred Tribulation Saints. That is the Penalty for NOT being Ready and Watching for the Bridegroom prior to the pouring out of GOD's Wrath here on earth.

BTW, this discussion belongs on the Rapture Thread.

Well bladerunner suggested I SHOULD get saved and then I would have a 50/50 chance of not being left behind.
As for as 50% of the saints being taken up and 50% will be left behind, I have never heard that foolishness taught before.
Where do you folks come up with these strange doctrines.
Your understand of the parable of the 10 virgins is wrong.
I believe you and those who agree with you have been deceived, and you believe I have been deceived.
But to suggest that someone is lost, as so do, just because we disagree is wrong.

 

[Persuaded]

I have already received the Holy Spirit.
I do not hate Darby, I hate his teaching. I believe it is satanic and will lead to thousands being killed or falling away in the tribulation when they are not raptured. This is not speculation. It happened in China under the communists. Christians died there because they were told they would be raptured and made no preparation to escape. Corrie Ten Boon speaks of this in one of her writings, having been sent to a concentration camp for helping Jews to escape she had no reason to lie about it. I believe people have been deluded into believing this.
Few know the history behind this teaching and if they did they wouldn't go near it.

So true! So very true.

 

[tanakh]

PROVE YOUR STATEMENT. ALL THE RESEARCH I have been doing says MOST ISRAELIES WANT THE TEMPLE BUILT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

FINALLY! Israel Officially Calling For Third Temple to Replace al-Aqsa Mosque! – Israel Video Network

Want world peace? 'Build 3rd Temple' | The Times of Israel

Firstly my statement about them not building one is correct unless its hidden away somewhere.

This is a quote from the Temple Institute website.....

''The Institute seeks to disseminate this knowledge, rekindle the desire and yearning for the rebuilding of the Holy Temple and prepare as much as possible for the actual rebuilding''

In order to rekindle the desire and yearning it logicaly follows that the desire and yearning was no longer there otherwise the statement makes no sense.

In Wilkipedia under the temple Institute there is a section headed Controversies. In it various Jewish Scholars are at loggerheads as to whether only the Messiah can build it or whether anyone can. I believe that one will be built during the tribulation under the rule of antichrist. No one knows when that will be but it is hardly cause for celebration.

Israel is a Secular state. Synagogue based Judaism has been practiced since the destruction of the old Temple. Many Jews have only a nodding acquaintance with that and many others range in belief from Atheists to Buddhists

I have been to Israel and have seen first hand what Israeli society looks like.

 

[tanakh]

Well bladerunner suggested I SHOULD get saved and then I would have a 50/50 chance of not being left behind.
As for as 50% of the saints being taken up and 50% will be left behind, I have never heard that foolishness taught before.
Where do you folks come up with these strange doctrines.
Your understand of the parable of the 10 virgins is wrong.
I believe you and those who agree with you have been deceived, and you believe I have been deceived.
But to suggest that someone is lost, as so do, just because we disagree is wrong.

Bladerunner more or less told me I wasn't saved. He suggested to ask Jesus to send me the Holy Spirit to teach me. One thing I was taught is that you receive the Holy spirit when you are saved. I said the sinners prayer in front of a Minister in 1971 and was Baptised in water a year later which was witnessed by about 100 people. Now I am being told that Im not saved because I dont believe in Darbys pre trib nonsense. He was thrown out of the Plymouth Brethren because of it and formed his own group. I was also told that it is not a salvation issue. I have heard this before. How come I am then told that I need the Holy Spirit because I dont believe in it and then that it is not a salvation issue?

 

[Persuaded]

Bladerunner more or less told me I wasn't saved. He suggested to ask Jesus to send me the Holy Spirit to teach me. One thing I was taught is that you receive the Holy spirit when you are saved. I said the sinners prayer in front of a Minister in 1971 and was Baptised in water a year later which was witnessed by about 100 people. Now I am being told that Im not saved because I dont believe in Darbys pre trib nonsense. He was thrown out of the Plymouth Brethren because of it and formed his own group. I was also told that it is not a salvation issue. I have heard this before. How come I am then told that I need the Holy Spirit because I dont believe in it and then that it is not a salvation issue?

I find it very troubling when people question your salvation and say you are calling God a liar just because you do not buy into their private "interpretation" of Scripture.
Only God knows if a man is saved and it is not for me or you to judge.

 

[Muzungu256]

It happened in China under the communists. Christians died there because they were told they would be raptured and made no preparation to escape.

source??????

 

[heartofdavid]

Well bladerunner suggested I SHOULD get saved and then I would have a 50/50 chance of not being left behind.
As for as 50% of the saints being taken up and 50% will be left behind, I have never heard that foolishness taught before.
Where do you folks come up with these strange doctrines.
Your understand of the parable of the 10 virgins is wrong.
I believe you and those who agree with you have been deceived, and you believe I have been deceived.
But to suggest that someone is lost, as so do, just because we disagree is wrong.

As for as 50% of the saints being taken up and 50% will be left behind, I have never heard that foolishness taught before.
Where do you folks come up with these strange doctrines.

That strange source would be the king of kings
mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

mat 25;

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

It is so vivid,one can not POSSIBLY miss it.
Get real,you guys have no verses,or a single post judgement uturn gathering.
YOU GUYS LITERALLY MADE IT UP

 

[heartofdavid]

Originally Posted by tanakh

It happened in China under the communists. Christians died there because they were told they would be raptured and made no preparation to escape.

source??????

If he had one it would be from some source that despises the rapture concept.

That statement about blaming doctrine on communist martyrdom is ludicrous.
The underground church is DAILY acquainted with martyrdom.
They are sold out to Jesus. READY TO DIE.

Play his nonsense out. "if they were post trib,they would not have been martyred" !!!!!
Uh huh, yeah,you bought it.

 

[Snoozy]

If he had one it would be from some source that despises the rapture concept.

That statement about blaming doctrine on communist martyrdom is ludicrous.
The underground church is DAILY acquainted with martyrdom.
They are sold out to Jesus. READY TO DIE.

Play his nonsense out. "if they were post trib,they would not have been martyred" !!!!!
Uh huh, yeah,you bought it.

as if it matters to da persecutors of christians what rapture timing u believe in. its always da same garbage about darby while i promise ive not read a single book from him. i believe the bible. i came to da conclusion that rapture happens before the last years of tribulation because its decreed to unbelieving world, mainly Israel. we arent appointed to wrath Jesus already took it for us and this aint no wrath of tha devil but wrath of God we talkin about. and logically who will populate the millennium in the post-trib deal?? its impossible deal.

 

[tanakh]

source??????

Corrie Ten Boon. A well known Dutch Christian writer who died on her 91st Birthday 15 April 1983 She was sent to a concentration camp for helping ten Jews to escape persecution. She wrote a number of books and articles.

If you write in Corrie Ten Boon on persecution in china on the internet a list of related web sites will show up including Utube videos of her warning about coming persecution and how the Pre Trib teaching is false and dangerous they include her remarks about Chinese persecution.

 

[Persuaded]

That strange source would be the king of kings
mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

mat 25;

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

It is so vivid,one can not POSSIBLY miss it.
Get real,you guys have no verses,or a single post judgement uturn gathering.
YOU GUYS LITERALLY MADE IT UP

Are you really saying these are all saints?
So why only 50% taken and 50% left behind?
Where is your Scripture proof?
I am sure you believe you will be taken and I will be left behind.

 

[VCO]

What you are talking about is not the dispensationalism Darby invented, and what the Pre Trib rapture and the separate salvation plans for Jews and the Church is included in. His was an artificial system imposed on the Bible. He considered there to be seven ages but since then the number has varied depending on who you ask five is a favorite alternative. Different ages have been believed in before Darby and are in the Bible but not as a rigid system.

Speaking of Acts have you read the following......

And he shall send Jesus Christ who before was preached to you
Whom the heaven must receive until the time of restitution
of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his
holy Prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:21

Christ is to remain in heaven until the restitution of all things spoken of by the Prophets
How does that account for a two part second coming when after the rapture there would be
another seven years before he returned. Was Peter and the Prophets lying or did they forget
that he was going to make a secret trip before hand?

There is only one second coming. This has been taught by the church
for centuries and still is. When he returns the resurrection will occur and
those alive will meet him in the air and escort him to earth. In Jude it says
that he will come with thousands of his saints. These are the righteous dead
who receive immortal bodies at his coming and are now with him in heaven

So the answer is "NO YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE DISPENSATIONALISM IS IN THE BIBLE." HOW SAD.

Romans 11:25-33 (NASB)
[SUP]Ro 11:25 [/SUP] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
[SUP]26 [/SUP] and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
[SUP]29 [/SUP] for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

I suppose you are one of thosen who believe God is finished with ISRAEL, and that you are a RePlacement Spiritual ISRAELITE?

So YOU want dictate that Christ remains in Heaven, because it does not fit your theory of Theology. How do you deal with Christ Appearing to Paul, three or four times? Kinda messes up your theory of Theology.

 

[Bladerunner]

I have already received the Holy Spirit.
I do not hate Darby, I hate his teaching. I believe it is satanic and will lead to thousands being killed or falling away in the tribulation when they are not raptured. This is not speculation. It happened in China under the communists. Christians died there because they were told they would be raptured and made no preparation to escape. Corrie Ten Boon speaks of this in one of her writings, having been sent to a concentration camp for helping Jews to escape she had no reason to lie about it. I believe people have been deluded into believing this.
Few know the history behind this teaching and if they did they wouldn't go near it.

you give yourself away my friend..... You say you have received the Holy Spirit yet you HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you need to start back at square one. Your type is not working. You seem to be miserable. Good luck

 

[Persuaded]

you give yourself away my friend..... You say you have received the Holy Spirit yet you HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you need to start back at square one. Your type is not working. You seem to be miserable. Good luck

He said he hated his teaching.
Do you not hate false teaching?
How do you justify judging him as to whether he has the Holy Spirit or does not.
You claim to be so righteous but you continue to pass judgment on others.

 

[Bladerunner]

Well bladerunner suggested I SHOULD get saved and then I would have a 50/50 chance of not being left behind.
As for as 50% of the saints being taken up and 50% will be left behind, I have never heard that foolishness taught before.
Where do you folks come up with these strange doctrines.
Your understand of the parable of the 10 virgins is wrong.
I believe you and those who agree with you have been deceived, and you believe I have been deceived.
But to suggest that someone is lost, as so do, just because we disagree is wrong.

I guess this is the last time I will respond to any of your post...It seems all you can do is play childish games. The 50-50% chance I spoke of as you know very well was in response to your post concerning what the pretribbers would do if they did not get Raptured.

The days we live in are by most all accounts considered the "END TIMES", Anyone who believes in the Jesus CHrist has a 50-50% chance they will get Raptured to heaven before they die.

I am sorry you like to PLAY the word games simply to make a point. Reminds me of someone else I got scolded for calling out.....Like Him I will not play your games anymore.....I do wish you a Blessed life.

Good BYE Persuaded


Blade

 

[Persuaded]

I guess this is the last time I will respond to any of your post...It seems all you can do is play childish games. The 50-50% chance I spoke of as you know very well was in response to your post concerning what the pretribbers would do if they did not get Raptured.

The days we live in are by most all accounts considered the "END TIMES", Anyone who believes in the Jesus CHrist has a 50-50% chance they will get Raptured to heaven before they die.

I am sorry you like to PLAY the word games simply to make a point. Reminds me of someone else I got scolded for calling out.....Like Him I will not play your games anymore.....I do wish you a Blessed life.

Good BYE Persuaded


Blade

Thank you for your response.
You showed your true nature and spiritually to all of us.