THIRD TEMPLE NEWS

VCO · Jul 23, 2020

VCO said:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (NKJV)
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

-

Jewish Artist picturing Temple Mount.
IF they choose the so-called Temple Mount, but could not build there just yet. See the piece of missing outer wall, that would be the likely place where they could open up to make the BRIDGE? That wall inside there is the Al-Aqsa Mosque (above left), the third most holiest site for Muslims, the one with the grey roof. So the second most holy site The DOME of the ROCK, and the Third most holy site, are both in Jerusalem.

HERE IS A JEWISH DRAWING OF HOW THE TEMPLE COULD FIT ON THE SO-CALLED TEMPLE MOUNT. I STILL THINK IT BELONGS IN THE CITY OF DAVID.

That Straight Joint is the BRIDGE that they KNEW they would have to build to have a TABERNACLE on the Mount of Olives, to make the Priests supposedly Holy with the Red Heifer ashes, so thy could enter into the Service with the TEMPLE butted up against the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Wrong Location is still WRONG, when it belongs at least 600 or more Southwest of this location.

So this image too, comes from an Orthodox Jewish site. It shows how close the TEMPLE will be if it is built in the Southeast Corner.

VCO · Jul 23, 2020

massorite said:

I am surprised at you SKEPTICISM. Do you know that EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY that was about to be FULFILLED, has SKEPTICS saying: There is actually no proof that the Bible says that . . . . UNTIL GOD FULFILLED THOSE PROPHECIES, then the Skeptics went and hid under their beds for a look time. The PROOF is in the TRACK RECORD OF GOD FULFILLING HIS PROPHECIES TO THE LETTER.

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Quote:
2:4 He will violently oppose every form of divine worship and will enthrone himself in the temple of God in Jerusalem. This description clearly identifies him as Antichrist, the one who is opposed to Christ and who sets himself up in the place of Christ.

Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15 show that this blasphemous action of the Antichrist takes place in the middle of the Tribulation Period. Those who refuse to worship him will be persecuted and many will be martyred.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding. End Quote.

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Quote:
2:4. This man is further described as the adversary of God. He will seek to replace the worship of the true God and all false gods with the worship of himself, and will proclaim himself to be God. The beast will tolerate the worship of no one or nothing but himself (cf. Rev. 13:5-8). He will set himself up on God's throne in the inner sanctuary of God's temple. This probably refers to a literal temple, but some suggest that it is a figurative reference to his occupying the most holy place in human worship, which rightfully belongs only to God. The early church fathers and several good modern-day commentators accept the literal view. This man is also called the "beast coming out of the sea" (Rev. 13:1-10), "a scarlet beast" (17:3), and simply "the beast" (17:8, 16; 19:19-20; 20:10). He is the Antichrist (1 John 2:18), a pseudo-Christ hostile to the Savior. He will be a real human being, not a principle or a system or a succession of individuals. Such a person has not yet been spotlighted on the stage of human history.

2:5. This teaching was nothing new to the Thessalonians; Paul had taught them about the day of the Lord when he was with them in Thessalonica. He called on them to recall those lessons. For the first time in this epistle Paul wrote that he personally (sing.) had taught them. He said this in order to emphasize the truth of his message, as he was the chief spokesman in Thessalonica. Paul did not regard prophetic truth as too deep or unimportant or controversial for new Christians. He believed it was a vital part of the whole counsel of God, so he taught it without hesitation or apology.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty. End Qoute.

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Quote:
2:3, 4 the falling away. The Day of the Lord cannot occur until a deliberate abandonment of a formerly professed position, allegiance, or commitment occurs (the term was used to refer to military, political, or religious rebellion). Some have suggested, on questionable linguistic evidence, that this refers to “departure” in the sense of the Rapture. Context, however, points to a religious defection, which is further described in verse 4. The language indicates a specific event, not general apostasy which exists now and always will. Rather, Paul has in mind the apostasy. This is an event which is clearly and specifically identifiable and unique, the consummate act of rebellion, an event of final magnitude. The key to identifying the event is to identify the main person, which Paul does, calling him the “man of sin.” Some texts have “man of lawlessness,” but there is no real difference in meaning since sin equals lawlessness (1 John 3:4). This is the one who is called “the prince who is to come” (Dan. 9:26) and “the little horn” (Dan. 7:8), whom John calls “the beast” (Rev. 13:2-10, 18) and most know as the Antichrist. The context and language clearly identify a real person in future times who actually does the things prophesied of him in Scripture. He is also called “the son of perdition” or destruction, a term used of Judas Iscariot (John 17:12). “The falling away” is the abomination of desolation that takes place at the midpoint of the Tribulation, spoken of in Daniel 9:27; 11:31; and Matthew 24:15 (see notes there). This man is not Satan, although Satan is the force behind him (v. 9) and he has motives like the desires of the devil (cf. Isa. 14:13, 14). Paul is referring to the very act of ultimate apostasy which reveals the final Antichrist and sets the course for the events that usher in the Day of the Lord. Apparently, he will be seen as supportive of religion so that God and Christ will not appear as his enemies until the apostasy. He exalts himself and opposes God by moving into the temple, the place for worship of God, declaring himself to be God and demanding the worship of the world. In this act of satanic self-deification, he commits the great apostasy in defiance of God. For the first three and one-half years of the Tribulation, he maintains relations with Israel, but halts those (cf. Dan. 9:27); and for the last three and one-half years, there is great tribulation under his reign (cf. Dan. 7:25; 11:36-39; Matt. 24:15-21; Rev. 13:1-8) culminating with the Day of the Lord.

2:5 I told you. The imperfect tense is used, indicating repeated action in past time. Apparently, Paul on numerous occasions had taught the Thessalonians the details of God’s future plans. Here, he reminded them of the issues which proved the false teachers wrong about the Day of the Lord. Paul had before told them that the revealing of the Antichrist preceded the Day of the Lord; since he had not yet been revealed, they could not possibly be in that day.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary. End Quote.

massorite · Jul 23, 2020

VCO said:

I am surprised at you SKEPTICISM. Do you know that EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY that was about to be FULFILLED, has SKEPTICS saying: There is actually no proof that the Bible says that . . . . UNTIL GOD FULFILLED THOSE PROPHECIES, then the Skeptics went and hid under their beds for a look time. The PROOF is in the TRACK RECORD OF GOD FULFILLING HIS PROPHECIES TO THE LETTER.

🕮

Quote:
2:4 He will violently oppose every form of divine worship and will enthrone himself in the temple of God in Jerusalem. This description clearly identifies him as Antichrist, the one who is opposed to Christ and who sets himself up in the place of Christ.

Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15 show that this blasphemous action of the Antichrist takes place in the middle of the Tribulation Period. Those who refuse to worship him will be persecuted and many will be martyred.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding. End Quote.

🕮

Quote:
2:4. This man is further described as the adversary of God. He will seek to replace the worship of the true God and all false gods with the worship of himself, and will proclaim himself to be God. The beast will tolerate the worship of no one or nothing but himself (cf. Rev. 13:5-8). He will set himself up on God's throne in the inner sanctuary of God's temple. This probably refers to a literal temple, but some suggest that it is a figurative reference to his occupying the most holy place in human worship, which rightfully belongs only to God. The early church fathers and several good modern-day commentators accept the literal view. This man is also called the "beast coming out of the sea" (Rev. 13:1-10), "a scarlet beast" (17:3), and simply "the beast" (17:8, 16; 19:19-20; 20:10). He is the Antichrist (1 John 2:18), a pseudo-Christ hostile to the Savior. He will be a real human being, not a principle or a system or a succession of individuals. Such a person has not yet been spotlighted on the stage of human history.

2:5. This teaching was nothing new to the Thessalonians; Paul had taught them about the day of the Lord when he was with them in Thessalonica. He called on them to recall those lessons. For the first time in this epistle Paul wrote that he personally (sing.) had taught them. He said this in order to emphasize the truth of his message, as he was the chief spokesman in Thessalonica. Paul did not regard prophetic truth as too deep or unimportant or controversial for new Christians. He believed it was a vital part of the whole counsel of God, so he taught it without hesitation or apology.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty. End Qoute.

🕮

I didn't say there wouldn't be a third temple as the temple spoken of in the last 8 chapters of the book of Ezekiel has not been built yet and you have provided plenty of proof that there will be a third temple and I am aware of those prophetic scriptures as well. What I said was that there is no proof that the temple spoken of in 2 Thess. ch 2 in which the antichrist would sit in the Holy of holies and declare himself to be God, will be the third temple. It is not logical for God to build a third temple, let the antichrist sit in it and declare himself that he is God, thereby defiling the temple and then God going into the same temple and residing there in a defiled temple. There simply is no proof that both God and the antichrist will be using the same temple.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Yes, sorry. I got busy doing other things.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Part 3 of 3:

History informs us of a mass Exodus of Christians from Judea prior to the start of hostilities between the zealots and the Romans. The church historian Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea, confirms the fact that the saints were preserved from this war when he says that the saints of Jerusalem fled to Pella before the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Eusebius The History of the Church 5.3

3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of Holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

He agrees with me that the wrath of God fell on them for their crimes against Jesus and His disciples. You see, I don't make this stuff up. In the very next paragraph, Eusebius clearly states that the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION was present in the Temple, although he doesn't identify it.

4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable — all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

So, we have an early Christian writer from nearby Caesarea, located on Israel's Mediterranean coast, clearly telling us that the AoD stood in the temple and he links it to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. I would trust the views of the early church concerning these issues which happened within their own country less than 300 years from their writings far more than the views of some 21st century evangelicals living 7,000 miles and 2,000 years away!!

We have an additional source, Epiphanius, who mentions the flight THREE TIMES written in the same time frame:

This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba (Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said." — Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8

For after all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel that it is situated in the neighbourhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there." — Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 2, 7

So Aquila, while he was in Jerusalem, also saw the disciples of the disciples of the apostles flourishing in the faith and working great signs, healings, and other miracles. For they were such as had come back from the city of Pella to Jerusalem and were living there and teaching. For when the city was about to be taken and destroyed by the Romans, it was revealed in advance to all the disciples by an angel of God that they should remove from the city, as it was going to be completely destroyed. They sojourned as emigrants in Pella, the city above mentioned in Transjordania. And this city is said to be of the Decapolis." — Epiphanius, On Weights and Measures 15

So, we have 4 accounts of the Christian Jews living in Jerusalem fleeing shortly before the siege. Again, I think my view in my 2nd post that those who transliterated the Bible put the parenthesis in the wrong place. They probably belong like this:

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ (spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Thus Matthew and Mark when writing the words of Jesus wanted their readers to know that the AoD Christ talked about was the same AoD, Daniel talked about. This view reconciles Luke's version which has the trigger to flee Judea as "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies," not when you see the armies standing in the holy place because that would be too late.

Please don't tell VCO about this. He still thinks it's in our future, LOL.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

KJV1611 said:

This aligns with Mat's and Mark's account. After the great tribulation (siege of Jerusalem) is over, the Presence of Christ, our Redeemer, returns. This day has been called, THE DAY OF CHRIST and THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. This is why we differ on the timing of Christ's return. It wasn't when He came back from the Cross and arose, it was after the siege when He came with the key to Death and Hades and freed the captives.

2 Thessalonians 2:2
not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

Ephesians 1:14
who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Romans 8:23
Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Ssh. Don't tell VCO. He thinks those OT saints are still waiting in Hades.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Nothing is forced back into 70 AD. All those things were fulfilled. There was only one desolation being discussed in the NT and that was the 70 AD destruction of Israel/Jerusalem/Temple. There is no prediction of a third Israel/Jerusalem/Temple or the destruction of them. It it the lack of understanding of the past which causes some to look for a future fulfillment. No disrespect intended towards you dear brother.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

No I know you mean know you do not mean any disrespect, I just wanted you to know I also do not in what I say.

It strikes me as if Jesus spoke of the AoD as if he knew that they understood it(he didn't speak of it as if they did not) but the things they did not understand like his death burial and resurrection the Scriptures usually say "but they did not yet understand" each time he told them about it. Peter going back fishing,the women thinking he was the gardener, doubting Thomas ect. shows that they were not expecting Jesus to rise from the grave(we spoke of this in another thread) but their understanding of the AoD from Daniel Jesus seemed to think they would recognize it and also whoever put "...him that readeth understand ect..." so which is why I think it was something most Jews commonly would see as the AoD from Daniel.

What do you think the AoD is?

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2020

VCO said:

Why do we care what any Christ rejecting unbelievers believe? The stuff the Jews believe is irrelevant to bible prophecy, God is done with the Jews as a nation.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2020

massorite said:

There is actually no proof that the temple spoken of in 2Thess chapter two is the "third Temple". All we know from those scriptures is that the antichrist must have a temple to sit in before he can sit in a temple of God and declare/show himself to be God. Scripture is not telling us any lies here so if the Word of God is telling us that the antichrist will sit in the temple of God and declare/show himself to be God then the antichrist will do just that.

Hi Massorite. Why would you think the man of sin is "The Antichrist"?

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

massorite said:

First, it is the Man of Sin who sits in the temple of God. There is no prophesy of an "AntiChrist" doing anything other than coming. There were many antichrists. The term "antichrist" is found just 4 times in the entire Bible, here they are:

1 John 2:18

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2 John 1:7

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

John makes clear that many antichrists have come (already) and that's how they knew it was the last hour - TO THEM - NOT US!!! They were in the death throws as a nation. Now John does reference a specific antichrist or at least the spirit of the antichrist who would soon come. I have no problem giving that title to Titus, the Son of the 7th head of the Roman Beast (4th beast of Daniel 7). Titus, the Son of the Roman God, Vespasian - fits the bill as do many characters during the Jewish War. I also have no problem giving Vespasian the title of AntiChrist as many religious Jews of that time believed He was their messiah come to save them from the zealots.

Let's try to keep our terminology consistent with the terms used in the Bible. Titus was NOT the Man of Sin. Titus never SAT in the temple. He stood in it. Eleazar actually sat in the temple. Heck he dwelled there. There is no prediction of an antichrist in our future but heck many thought Hitler was an antichrist. We certainly don't need a third temple for 2 Thes 2 to have been fulfilled.

PlainWord · Jul 23, 2020

massorite said:

You are right about a lot of this. Maybe the antichrist will sit in the 15th temple or the 666th temple?? Or maybe he already sat in the 2nd temple and we just aren't aware of it? One thing we know for certain, God will never dwell in a temple made with hands. He said so repeatedly.

As for the temple of Ezekiel 40-48. That was a hypothetical temple. They were to only get that grand temple if they repented, which they didn't do, so they got the lesser 2nd temple instead. The only reason they got a 2nd temple at all was because Daniel repented for them. After 70 years of captivity, the Jews learned nothing. The Jews of today still have learned nothing. After the holocaust, those Jews turned to God but it wasn't long after that they turned away again. Today's Jews are 90% aethiest. This is why the kingdom was taken away from them and given to ALL BELIEVERS.

Ezek 43:10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. 11 And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them.

Because the above never happened, (i.e., they were never ashamed) THAT temple never happened.

garee · Jul 23, 2020

PlainWord said:

The last hour marks the last day, a unknow time period. We walk by faith not numbering days .We are not of those number days or people .

Mankind has always been the temple of God not built with human hands . The man of sin is natural unconverted or a Christian acting foolish denying Jesus in their heart like the foolish Galatians .

And yes there are many a legion of antichrists' under the the persuasion of the spirit of the antichrists' . The god of this world called the antichrist singular.

The man of sin or mankind men and woman (sinners) .Mankind is what Satan uses .He used a serpent in the fall . Took away its ability to walk.

Satan uses man the temple of God as the man of sin who sits in the temple of God again mankind.

A perfect example of the antichrist the father of lies sitting or persuading in the temple of God the believer is with Peter

Jesus the prophet apostle who spoke the the words of the father. The powerful words that can rebuke the evil spirt (antichrist) and forgive the sinner. The Son of man did not have power to either.

The lord gave the Son of man the apostle Jesus the words to rebuke the devil . The father through Jesus said to Peter. . directed at the spirit of the antichrist (legion) Get behind me. The father not seen and not Peter seen the temporal used as the man of sin.

In other words walk by faith the unseen will of the father not after the god of this world . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man the devil left the scene.

Some are still waiting for him to be revealed. A wile of the antichrist the spirit of lies that he hides behind . . A lying wonder. No sign were given .Its a evil generation natural unconverted mankind that does seek after many.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2020

PlainWord said:

This one I believe is the day we die.

PlainWord said:

This one I believe is our glorified bodies.

PlainWord said:

This one I believe is our glorified bodies also.

PlainWord said:

This one obviously is the redemption of our bodies and you and I know our bodies are glorified at our deaths.

PlainWord said:

PW this one should make you change your mind on this completely. This verse says that Jesus, through his DEATH became the Mediator of the new covenant. Under the new covenant, he REDEEMED the transgressions of those under the first covenant.... that verse is the redemption of the Old Testament saints, those that DIED under the law.

PlainWord said:

One day he's gonna see the light

.

iamsoandso · Jul 23, 2020

PlainWord said:

lol, I thought so life is quite hectic at times and so we cannot just stop and respond.

iamsoandso · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

And what about https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-20.htm ? if in John 19 (appox. 38 years prior to the first revolt) the chief priest who you quoted saying this would his sons bare his sin? I Judaism they all were awaiting the Messiah(anointed king), so as it seems the chief priest had the opinion that Jesus was not the Messiah(anointed king) of the Jews that they were expecting so his statement over not having any king other than Caesar wasn't suppose to change until the Messiah came according to Judaism correct?

The Jews in the siege almost forty years after the Cross began minting their own coins to avoid the issue of pagan images https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and so were trying to avoid polluting themselves with those images/idols. So again if the beast of Revelation 13 is Roman coinage with pagan images on them then the Jews in the siege did not use the beast money to buy and sell with.

As for piety/impiety https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impiety the Jews were very outspoken over what they thought of Caesar and Rome. They refused to sacrifice the Romans offerings (see chapter 17) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impiety So so far it is very provable in history that those Jews did not buy or sell with that image/mark nor did they worship Caesar as God(had no piety of him).

If you read chapter 18(I suggest reading the whole book), you will see that the Jews sacked Pella and so the only ones who would be safe there would be "Judaizers" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaizers which is who are listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_to_Pella who were the Nazarene's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect) and the Ebionites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites that is those who were circumcised and followed the Law.

iamsoandso said:

iamsoandso · Jul 23, 2020

PlainWord said:

Part 3 of 3:

History informs us of a mass Exodus of Christians from Judea prior to the start of hostilities between the zealots and the Romans. The church historian Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea, confirms the fact that the saints were preserved from this war when he says that the saints of Jerusalem fled to Pella before the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Eusebius The History of the Church 5.3

3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of Holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

He agrees with me that the wrath of God fell on them for their crimes against Jesus and His disciples. You see, I don't make this stuff up. In the very next paragraph, Eusebius clearly states that the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION was present in the Temple, although he doesn't identify it.

4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable — all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

So, we have an early Christian writer from nearby Caesarea, located on Israel's Mediterranean coast, clearly telling us that the AoD stood in the temple and he links it to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. I would trust the views of the early church concerning these issues which happened within their own country less than 300 years from their writings far more than the views of some 21st century evangelicals living 7,000 miles and 2,000 years away!!

We have an additional source, Epiphanius, who mentions the flight THREE TIMES written in the same time frame:

This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba (Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said." — Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8

For after all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel that it is situated in the neighbourhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there." — Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 2, 7

So Aquila, while he was in Jerusalem, also saw the disciples of the disciples of the apostles flourishing in the faith and working great signs, healings, and other miracles. For they were such as had come back from the city of Pella to Jerusalem and were living there and teaching. For when the city was about to be taken and destroyed by the Romans, it was revealed in advance to all the disciples by an angel of God that they should remove from the city, as it was going to be completely destroyed. They sojourned as emigrants in Pella, the city above mentioned in Transjordania. And this city is said to be of the Decapolis." — Epiphanius, On Weights and Measures 15

So, we have 4 accounts of the Christian Jews living in Jerusalem fleeing shortly before the siege. Again, I think my view in my 2nd post that those who transliterated the Bible put the parenthesis in the wrong place. They probably belong like this:

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ (spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Thus Matthew and Mark when writing the words of Jesus wanted their readers to know that the AoD Christ talked about was the same AoD, Daniel talked about. This view reconciles Luke's version which has the trigger to flee Judea as "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies," not when you see the armies standing in the holy place because that would be too late.

Please don't tell VCO about this. He still thinks it's in our future, LOL.

lol, ok I tried to do the quote a post thing and put post #1867 and #1870 together but I am not good at it so... If we are going to use Eusebius or Epiphanius then seeing that they both are some 250+ years removed from the events of ad70 then their opinions are only going to be as valuable as any of ours would be of events of the 1780'ish.

Neither of these two men lived in ad70 and clicking on their names show that they are considered "skeptical in their treatment of facts". If you read the link in post #1870 Pella was destroyed at that time by the Jews. They also are RCC at it's beginning and involved in the process of trying to disprove the futuristic views of the millennium taught by the early Church from ad70 until it was changed by these very men, So Catholics,peterist ect. consider their opinions as valuable but to the rest they are nothing more than opinions of men trying to prove the early Church leaders(ad70-ad300) incorrect. So I cannot keep this from anyone if I already posted this two pages prior to this.

iamsoandso · Jul 23, 2020

PlainWord said:

None taken but you are only focusing on Jews in the siege instead of Revelation 6&7 and the peoples,nations,tongues,tribes ect. "when do all those Christian gentiles go through the GT?".

iamsoandso · Jul 23, 2020

KJV1611 said:

You are "the temple of God" are you not? You are the temple they ,blaspheme,pollute,destroy ect. ,,,they kill the Christians,the temple.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2020

iamsoandso said:

I agree we are the temple of God but what I'm getting at is what is the abomination that is done to make something desolate. For clarity on what I'm asking, I believe that the abomination was killing Christ and the abomination led to the desolation of the Jews.

The AoD is an abomination that leaves someone or something desolate, so I'm asking you what was/is the abomination and what was/is left desolate in your view?

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