Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
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I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
There is also a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.
Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.
( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )
Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.
1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,
2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling
3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,
4)The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,
5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
6)The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )
7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption
1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12.
The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.
( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )
Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.
1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,
2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling
3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,
4)The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,
5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
6)The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )
7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption
1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12.
The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
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Very true but there is a difference between being held accountable to sins from a infant knowledge to that of mature knowledge of knowing its wrong but doing it anyways. Infants in Christ will be like a rough dirty diamond but as they remain faithful and active in Faith God can clean up that diamond and make it more valuable.
Obviously these Christians was not trying to grow as much as some of the other churches as for the harsh letter in 1 Corinthians. So Paul rebuked them and gave them more mature knowledge to correct in which they listened to in 2 Corinthians. Now if they hadn't of listened after recieving stricter encouragement but remained in fleshy ways, this is deliberately sinning an act of rebellion against what Christ had done.
After all we have many scriptures saying what living in the flesh does to our souls.
Obviously these Christians was not trying to grow as much as some of the other churches as for the harsh letter in 1 Corinthians. So Paul rebuked them and gave them more mature knowledge to correct in which they listened to in 2 Corinthians. Now if they hadn't of listened after recieving stricter encouragement but remained in fleshy ways, this is deliberately sinning an act of rebellion against what Christ had done.
After all we have many scriptures saying what living in the flesh does to our souls.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
What did Paul mean by we do not void out the law by faith,but we establish the law,and if a person desires not to sin,and means it,and allows the Spirit to lead them,God will not allow them to be tempted above measure,and will give them a way to escape the temptation,and the Spirit will lead them to do good,and this is because they do not want to sin,but represent goodness,and by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Paul did fulfill the law,for love is the fulfilling of the law,and we must fulfill the law,love people perfectly by the Spirit,to be able to dwell with God,which follow peace with all people,with holiness,without which no person shall see the Lord,and sell all you have and give to the poor,then you will be in a right position to receive salvation,and if you believe God blesses with money,and material things,for personal use other than needs,you have erred from the truth.
If a person has a habit that they will not get rid of by spending money on their wants,and not their needs,and the needs of others,Paul said they have erred from the truth,James said they do not have faith,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
The law does apply to us for we establish the law,and we all have to fulfill the law,which is loving people,so if people neglect helping people,and if they are hateful towards even one person,they do not fulfill the law.
Paul did fulfill the law,for we cannot receive salvation unless we fulfill the law,and establish the law.
If a person is led of the Spirit they are not under the law,because they do not want to sin,and allow the Spirit to lead them which they can abstain from sin,so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
It is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and we are not forced to sin,so there is no excuse we cannot abstain from sin,for even the world can abstain from sin,for they choose what sins they like,and which sins they do not like,and if we do evil,the good was there for us to choose,so there is no excuse.
If a person honestly hates sin,and does not want to sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,but that is because they do not want to sin,and it is not that we cannot abstain from sin,but we want to sin,so there is no excuse,for it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,not the tree of evil and evil,but the tree of good and evil,for we have a choice.
Oh,I am sorry judge for stealing that car,but my body commenced to stealing that there vehicle,and I could not stop it,and it was out of my control,and my body did its own thing,while I was helpless to stop my body from stealing that car,so you see judge I am innocent,for I cannot abstain from sin,for my body from time to time does it own thing,and I am powerless to stop it,and have no choice but to commit the sin.
Give me a break.You steal a car,there is no excuse,for you could of chosen the good,so why do they say we cannot abstain from sin,when even the world can abstain from sin,and not cheat on the wife,and not do drugs,and not steal,and someone that claims Christ is going to say,I cannot abstain from sin.
What.
What did Paul mean by we do not void out the law by faith,but we establish the law,and if a person desires not to sin,and means it,and allows the Spirit to lead them,God will not allow them to be tempted above measure,and will give them a way to escape the temptation,and the Spirit will lead them to do good,and this is because they do not want to sin,but represent goodness,and by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Paul did fulfill the law,for love is the fulfilling of the law,and we must fulfill the law,love people perfectly by the Spirit,to be able to dwell with God,which follow peace with all people,with holiness,without which no person shall see the Lord,and sell all you have and give to the poor,then you will be in a right position to receive salvation,and if you believe God blesses with money,and material things,for personal use other than needs,you have erred from the truth.
If a person has a habit that they will not get rid of by spending money on their wants,and not their needs,and the needs of others,Paul said they have erred from the truth,James said they do not have faith,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
The law does apply to us for we establish the law,and we all have to fulfill the law,which is loving people,so if people neglect helping people,and if they are hateful towards even one person,they do not fulfill the law.
Paul did fulfill the law,for we cannot receive salvation unless we fulfill the law,and establish the law.
If a person is led of the Spirit they are not under the law,because they do not want to sin,and allow the Spirit to lead them which they can abstain from sin,so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
It is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and we are not forced to sin,so there is no excuse we cannot abstain from sin,for even the world can abstain from sin,for they choose what sins they like,and which sins they do not like,and if we do evil,the good was there for us to choose,so there is no excuse.
If a person honestly hates sin,and does not want to sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,but that is because they do not want to sin,and it is not that we cannot abstain from sin,but we want to sin,so there is no excuse,for it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,not the tree of evil and evil,but the tree of good and evil,for we have a choice.
Oh,I am sorry judge for stealing that car,but my body commenced to stealing that there vehicle,and I could not stop it,and it was out of my control,and my body did its own thing,while I was helpless to stop my body from stealing that car,so you see judge I am innocent,for I cannot abstain from sin,for my body from time to time does it own thing,and I am powerless to stop it,and have no choice but to commit the sin.
Give me a break.You steal a car,there is no excuse,for you could of chosen the good,so why do they say we cannot abstain from sin,when even the world can abstain from sin,and not cheat on the wife,and not do drugs,and not steal,and someone that claims Christ is going to say,I cannot abstain from sin.
What.
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My calling is to call people to walk in the love expressed through the cross and find healing
and victory in their hearts.
And far from accomplishing this still many preach in rebellion to the calling Christ gives us
in scripture and our hearts. They have find sounding ideas of caring and not laying rejection
or judgementalism on people, while not realising the nature of sin is a distorted heart and
emotions that drive people to behave the way they do. Giving excuses for behaviour rather
than bringing healing and redemption reinforces the idea Christ did not come to deal with
sin at all, just to placate punishment, which is a hollow gospel with no power.
and victory in their hearts.
And far from accomplishing this still many preach in rebellion to the calling Christ gives us
in scripture and our hearts. They have find sounding ideas of caring and not laying rejection
or judgementalism on people, while not realising the nature of sin is a distorted heart and
emotions that drive people to behave the way they do. Giving excuses for behaviour rather
than bringing healing and redemption reinforces the idea Christ did not come to deal with
sin at all, just to placate punishment, which is a hollow gospel with no power.
dc - you are not a wise many, but just want to be dismissive. I fear for you future, and where
it will lead. I imagine you dismiss so much out of your life you do not see it going away from
you.
God bless you, the Lord loves you and desires you humble yourself and open you heart before
Him so He may heal you of the hurts you keep hidden from everybody.
A hard heart is not the sign of a good spiritual life in the Lord, or maybe you never noticed
this.
it will lead. I imagine you dismiss so much out of your life you do not see it going away from
you.
God bless you, the Lord loves you and desires you humble yourself and open you heart before
Him so He may heal you of the hurts you keep hidden from everybody.
A hard heart is not the sign of a good spiritual life in the Lord, or maybe you never noticed
this.
Nothing is emotionally slanted, we are a bunch of emotions in everything we do.
You claim to be self aware yet you do not realise this life reality.
No moment of the day, no thought we have, is not bounded by emotion and feeling.
What we are aware of is shifts in our emotional background, but we forget it is always
there and sets everything we pursue and do.
So in Christ equally the Lord brings these things into submission and grace.
It is why the apostles could praise while in prison, after fellow disciples had been
executed and the most sensible response was fear, yet God set them free, not
because of their approach, but because that was His will.
Faith and our hearts and our emotions are all intertwinned, with our love of God
and our love of others, Amen, what a glorious gospel of freedom He has lead us into.
You claim to be self aware yet you do not realise this life reality.
No moment of the day, no thought we have, is not bounded by emotion and feeling.
What we are aware of is shifts in our emotional background, but we forget it is always
there and sets everything we pursue and do.
So in Christ equally the Lord brings these things into submission and grace.
It is why the apostles could praise while in prison, after fellow disciples had been
executed and the most sensible response was fear, yet God set them free, not
because of their approach, but because that was His will.
Faith and our hearts and our emotions are all intertwinned, with our love of God
and our love of others, Amen, what a glorious gospel of freedom He has lead us into.
Why did I change my display picture?
Because I love little field mice and I feel like one.
I am small, weak and tossed around by forces beyond my understanding or control.
Yet here the King has come and spoken to me and changed my heart and my life.
So in my weakness and state of understanding, I learn and share as the Lord leads.
I realise I am as weak or weaker than many of you, and my understanding is often
to analytical and involved, yet I see things, and suddenly realise it summarises so
so much.
The law is the gatekeeper, and those who wish to storm the Kingdom, want to
do so by faking qualification while in the hearts dwelling in sin.
Because I love little field mice and I feel like one.
I am small, weak and tossed around by forces beyond my understanding or control.
Yet here the King has come and spoken to me and changed my heart and my life.
So in my weakness and state of understanding, I learn and share as the Lord leads.
I realise I am as weak or weaker than many of you, and my understanding is often
to analytical and involved, yet I see things, and suddenly realise it summarises so
so much.
The law is the gatekeeper, and those who wish to storm the Kingdom, want to
do so by faking qualification while in the hearts dwelling in sin.
At least you are not in the extreme side of NOSAS camp. I once heard someone in the NOSAS camp say that continuing in faith/abiding in Christ etc.. is an extremely, difficult burden that most genuine born again Christians will surely fail to do and even suggested that up to 95% of genuine born again Christians will end up losing their salvation before it's all over with. 
That same person likened remaining saved to someone walking across a tight rope in which suddenly and at any moment can fall off. Those in the NOSAS camp who don't hold to that extreme view seem to liken remaining saved to someone walking down a road with two high walls on both sides. The person would say, "they are secure, but are still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side."
That same person likened remaining saved to someone walking across a tight rope in which suddenly and at any moment can fall off. Those in the NOSAS camp who don't hold to that extreme view seem to liken remaining saved to someone walking down a road with two high walls on both sides. The person would say, "they are secure, but are still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side."
E
I think you answered the question without realizing it.
1. Faith is assurance, Not confidence, I can have confidence someone can do something, It does not mean I have faith he will succeed.
Example's
1. Abraham had so much faith, he KNEW or as scripture said, he was Assured God would keep his promise, thus he offered his son as a sacrifice, Knowing (assurance) God would raise him from the dead.
2. Noah had so much faith, He KNEW as scripture said, God would flood the earth, He KNEW and was assured, the ark God told him to build would save him and his family, and he was assured (not just confident) that God would do everything he said he would do. So he endured, and built the ark.
I agree, God asked Peter 3 times if he loved him, And even though peter could only say I love you (lower Philip, not the deep Agape) Jesus still told peter.. Thats ok, Feed my people.. Peter, in the spur of the moment lost faith.. It does not mean he lost salvation, or that his faith was dead..
1. Faith is assurance, Not confidence, I can have confidence someone can do something, It does not mean I have faith he will succeed.
Example's
1. Abraham had so much faith, he KNEW or as scripture said, he was Assured God would keep his promise, thus he offered his son as a sacrifice, Knowing (assurance) God would raise him from the dead.
2. Noah had so much faith, He KNEW as scripture said, God would flood the earth, He KNEW and was assured, the ark God told him to build would save him and his family, and he was assured (not just confident) that God would do everything he said he would do. So he endured, and built the ark.
I agree, God asked Peter 3 times if he loved him, And even though peter could only say I love you (lower Philip, not the deep Agape) Jesus still told peter.. Thats ok, Feed my people.. Peter, in the spur of the moment lost faith.. It does not mean he lost salvation, or that his faith was dead..
E
I can;t speak for churches that have not been around for centuries.. Nor would I assume i know what they were thinking..
As for why? Because just like the churches we have today, We have many people who have a claimed faith, but have no faith at all. Just a belief. They need warned..
We do not warn them by switching over to works theology. That's is what the Jews did when they returned from babylon. They were afraid it was to easy, so they added all these laws to the Torah.
At least you are not in the extreme side of NOSAS camp. I once heard someone in the NOSAS camp say that continuing in faith/abiding in Christ etc.. is an extremely, difficult burden that most genuine born again Christians will surely fail to do and even suggested that up to 95% of genuine born again Christians will end up losing their salvation before it's all over with.
That same person likened remaining saved to someone walking across a tight rope in which suddenly and at any moment can fall off. Those in the NOSAS camp who don't hold to that extreme view seem to liken remaining saved to someone walking down a road with two high walls on both sides. The person would say, "they are secure, but are still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side."
That same person likened remaining saved to someone walking across a tight rope in which suddenly and at any moment can fall off. Those in the NOSAS camp who don't hold to that extreme view seem to liken remaining saved to someone walking down a road with two high walls on both sides. The person would say, "they are secure, but are still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side."
How this works out in the future is in the Lords hands. If we truly know Christ we know how
secure we are in Him, because that is part of knowing our God. It is like saying the cross is
not enough, I need this in triplicate, that guranateed and a nuptual agreement that I still keep
eternity if the marriage breaks down.
If Peter had lost his faith on denying Jesus that would have been it.
And sin in a believer? Moses was able to talk with God face to face yet he still failed once.
Our hearts need to be set on following, learning, growing, being faithful, but sometimes, things
throw us off track, and we get sidelined. Jesus says, pick yourself up, repent, get your bearings
and come walk with me again. It is hard to realise how brutal these things are, yet we know walking
in front of a big lorry will kill us, so why do we fear something we can avoid?
Staying with Jesus is not the hard part, it is resolving our allegiance to other things and not getting
distracted. David got distracted with Bathsheba and could have destroyed him.
Ahab for all his sins could have gone back to God, He did give him lots of chances, yet Ahab rebuffed
almost all of them, except the last at which point he humbled himself and repented.