Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.

[Diakonos]

He says the Holy spirit is a person in the KJV but not the Greek

These are the verses where the Holy Spirit acts as a person and is treated as a person:
Acts 5:3, Acts 7:51, Mark 3:28, Acts 13:2, Romans 8:26, John 14:26, Nehemiah 9:20, 2 Corinthians 13:4, Genesis 6:3, Acts 16:6–7
Show me that the Greek is wrong.
If you can't then your opinion is unbiblical and without evidence

 

[biker]

I wanted to leave that before going so it was answered.

 

[biker]

These are the verses where the Holy Spirit acts as a person and is treated as a person:
Acts 5:3, Acts 7:51, Mark 3:28, Acts 13:2, Romans 8:26, John 14:26, Nehemiah 9:20, 2 Corinthians 13:4, Genesis 6:3, Acts 16:6–7
Show me that the Greek is wrong.
If you can't then your opinion is unbiblical and without evidence

You can be right, I don't Care.

Jesus said God is a Spirit. I believe Him over you!

 

[SoulWeaver]

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^^^^^
comes directly from John to his Disciples Polycarp and Iggy!

Not sure why do you think the Bible or any translation is at odds with this... and in this I'll answer the OP's question.

"No one has ever seen God" - this refers to the Father, who isnt manifested, but absolute.

Son is the Father manifested - "the one who has seen Me has seen the Father", Son is God showing Himself in manifested world, thus Alpha and Omega - but Father is infinite.

Holy Spirit is Spirit of God, which may make one believe "well this is the same as the Father" but it's not (been there). If you look where and how the Spirit appears in the Bible, it is for instances upon the world or individuals in action. Father is absolute and unmanifested, so we must go through the Son to know Father, and in the NT we get begotten - Holy Spirit is in us, but this doesn't mean we're the supreme Father God.

Father and the Holy Spirit are not exactly the same. You cannot look at individual verses alone to get a comprehensive picture but you need to pull all references.

Spirit us simply what makes you you. You have your spirit, God has His. Essence. God's spirit or essence is Love. So it's easy to understand how the Father and the Son and also us share in the same Spirit.

We are made in God's image. We have mind that is not manifested (Father), word and right hand (works) and body that manifest us in the world (Son, body of Christ), and who we are (Spirit). God is love. The word persons or even "faces" (in my native language) is not the most fortunate choice since God is vast and escapes words (which is why God directs us to look at the image we are made in to understand Godhead), but word was chosen because Father Son and Spirit biblically interact. Our mind and body and spirit also interact, but it's still one being.

 

[Absolutely]

Ireneaus a.d. 120–202

The Church, though dispersed through our the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus​

 

[Absolutely]

""I only use the Bible, the Tanakh and the most original Aramaic and Greek.""

Link?
Give me a link

Where are these bibles?
Link?

 

[Absolutely]

Perfect example of what I am saying:


KJV:
John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

All 3 verses the KJV calls the Comforter [HE]




Same verses from Aramaic translated to Greek:
16 And I shall be asking the Father, and He will be giving you another consoler, that it, indeed, may be with you for the eon

26 Now the consoler, the holy spirit, which the Father will be sending in My name, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you."

26 Now, whenever the consoler which I shall be sending you from the Father may be coming, the spirit of truth which is going out from the Father, that will be testifying concerning Me."

The originals call the Holy Spirit [IT and THAT] They do not make the Holy Spirit a Person like the KJV does.

Jn 14;16
The textus receptus

He-SHALL-BE-GIVING
umin
humin
G5213
pp 2 Dat Pl
to-YOU(p)
ye
ina
hina
G2443
Conj
THAT
menh
menE
G3306
vs Pres Act 3 Sg
he-MAY-BE-REMAINING
meq
meth
G3326
Prep
WITH
umwn
humOn
G5216
pp 2 Gen Pl

 

[Absolutely]

What I am seeing here (being in the faith and study for over 40 years),is ...."what "truths" can we gather that oppose the textus receptus greek maniscrips to form a parallel doctrine to mentally satisfy the mystery of the trinity"

Maybe that aramaic deal does just that.
I have shown that the church fathers debunked the non trinity heresy.

 

[Diakonos]

You can be right, I don't Care.

Jesus said God is a Spirit. I believe Him over you!

He is Spirit. And he is a person. There's no contradiction

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Have you experienced eternity?

Yes, no, maybe, I don't know; it all depends upon how you interpret the term 'eternity'.

I was responding to your statement "The idea of three persons that have always existed is beyond our comprehension." I must have really misinterpreted what you are saying since 'having always existed' is indicative of the eternal nature, being one of the three natures of living things. These three being the Eternal, Immortal and Mortal. Whereas the term 'eternity' is indicative of the 'immortal' nature, or immortality.

In the KJV the term 'eternity'' is only used once in the OT and was used in reference to the high and lofty one
who dwells in eternity. [see Isaiah 57:15]. You can also see the same referenced in 1 Tim 6:16 wherein it is written; "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;"

To fully comprehend it you need to experience it.

If one has been washed of their sin, then did mortal nature put on corruption or did they put on immortality?

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:53

That reminds of what is written in Acts 19:22 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost"

They didn't know that they didn't even know that they didn't know until they heard about that which they didn't know.

 

[Diakonos]

To fully comprehend you need to experience it

Paul prayed that the Ephesians would be able to comprehend the divine dimensions of God Love....which is beyond 3 dimensions by the way.
“may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,” (Ephesians 3:18)

 

[biker]

Even though I believe in the Trinity, the Church Fathers explained the Trinity, the Aramaic and Greek confirm the Trinity, I am being hassled because I believe they are Spirit (like Jesus claims in John) and not as Persons.

We are body, mind, spirit. Our bodies die in the ground, our minds go with our dead body, and the spirit is what continues. Even in glorified bodies, we can go through walls like a ghost, so we are still SPIRIT. This is how I view the Trinity (Spirit).

And I do not know why you keep harping on things labelled as HE, HIM, HIS, all heavenly creatures are males. And we know even the Angels are Spirit, and still, that does not make them persons.

 

[Diakonos]

Even in glorified bodies, we can go through walls like a ghost, so we are still SPIRIT. This is how I view the Trinity (Spirit)

"In Him (Jesus), the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form" -Colossians 2:9

 

[biker]

"In Him (Jesus), the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form" -Philippians 2:9

Agreed, but He was only flesh for one purpose, to be our Sacrifice. Other than that, He is the WORD, which is a SPIRIT!

John 1:
14 And the Word was made flesh...proves He was Spirit before becoming flesh.

 

[CS1]

Yeah I agree, there are many ifs and buts here. We can only work with facts.

Facts are:

Jesus was a Torah obeying Jew that understood the Greek culture. Read OT in Hebrew.
Matthew, John and Luke were Torah obeying Jews that understood the Greek culture. Read OT in Hebrew.
The disciples at first thought their gospels were written for Jews. The Jews read OT in Hebrew.

And so we can go on, but like I said, slim pickings out of a lot of ifs and buts.

Jesus is believed to have read from the "Septuagint" the Greek written Old Testament. Also it is believed there was not a language Jesus did not know Being God.

 

[biker]

Don't you think Jesus would have called or explained that God was a Person if that was how Jesus viewed it?
He clearly claimed God is a SPIRIT.

 

[Diakonos]

John 1:
14 And the Word was made flesh...proves He was Spirit before becoming flesh.

1st of all....why are you quoting from the KJV is you disagree with it?

2nd.....Yes He was Spirit before the incarnation. He added human nature to His being permanently. Now He has a physical body.
Since His resurrection, "the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form".
When he said "God is spirit", that was before His resurrection.
Now...."The entire Trinity completely dwells in Christ, in full manifestation and glory.

 

[biker]

1st of all....why are you quoting from the KJV is you disagree with it?

2nd.....Yes He was Spirit before the incarnation. He added human nature to His being permanently. Now He has a physical body.
Since His resurrection, "the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form".
When he said "God is spirit", that was before His resurrection.
Now...."The entire Trinity completely dwells in Christ, in full manifestation and glory.

And how do you suppose ALL 3 dwell in one flesh body?

Because they are SPIRIT!

 

[biker]

1st of all....why are you quoting from the KJV is you disagree with it?

2nd.....Yes He was Spirit before the incarnation. He added human nature to His being permanently. Now He has a physical body.
Since His resurrection, "the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form".
When he said "God is spirit", that was before His resurrection.
Now...."The entire Trinity completely dwells in Christ, in full manifestation and glory.

When Jesus cast the LEGION of Demons out of the man and they went into the swine. Those were ALL SPIRITS inside that man.

 

[Diakonos]

Don't you think Jesus would have called or explained that God was a Person if that was how Jesus viewed it?

No.
Does the Bible say:
"Peter is a person"
"Paul is a person"
"James is a person"
"Jude is a person" etc.
No it doesn't. Its obvious because they have Intelligence, will and emotion....one with a distinct consciousnesses, able to reason and make decisions.

"If you need a bible verse that says "God is a person", then you need one for the rest of the characters in order to believe that they are.



Nobody in the N.T. is specifically called a person. You are looking for an unnecessary piece of evidence.