Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Until you learn to read what I say I will not post.

You said I did not say the man had a legion of Demons when I clearly said he did.
I said AFTER the birth of Jesus Mary was still a virgin, not after the brothers/sisters were born.

Why are you twisting my words?
If you want to be clear on what you mean then stop saying things like:


But he is not related to anyone of us by natural birth. Mary was still a virgin after Jesus was born. WAs your Mom still a virgin after your birth, my Mom was not!


If you think I am twisting what you say that is your own fault.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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It doesn't matter. Jesus is a man. The Bible says so . I have quoted several verses. You have to change your understanding, instead of saying that the Bible is wrong


I am doing the specifics, not disagreeing with the Bible.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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If you want to be clear on what you mean then stop saying things like:


But he is not related to anyone of us by natural birth. Mary was still a virgin after Jesus was born. WAs your Mom still a virgin after your birth, my Mom was not!


If you think I am twisting what you say that is your own fault.


the 6,000 Demons I said were spirits inside the man, not persons. But I am not saying the Bible is wrong. Just asking how can 6,000 persons be inside the man when it is possible for 6,000 spirits.

And the Mary comment was IMMEDIATELY after giving birth to Jesus and before Joseph knew her, she was still a virgin.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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I will state this once again, and I am done with this thread.

All I said, Jesus said GOD is a SPIRIT.

I choose to believe Jesus over anyone else.

Enjoy!


John 4:24
God is a Spirit:
and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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the 6,000 Demons I said were spirits inside the man, not persons. But I am not saying the Bible is wrong. Just asking how can 6,000 persons be inside the man when it is possible for 6,000 spirits.

And the Mary comment was IMMEDIATELY after giving birth to Jesus and before Joseph knew her, she was still a virgin.
You did not say that you said

But he is not related to anyone of us by natural birth. Mary was still a virgin after Jesus was born. WAs your Mom still a virgin after your birth, my Mom was not!


If you can't see how your comment was not left for one to think "immediately" being born, that is on you.

So again I will place you on ignore so I don't see your post anymore God bless were done.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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You did not say that you said

But he is not related to anyone of us by natural birth. Mary was still a virgin after Jesus was born. WAs your Mom still a virgin after your birth, my Mom was not!


If you can't see how your comment was not left for one to think "immediately" being born, that is on you.

So again I will place you on ignore so I don't see your post anymore God bless were done.

My bad, I thought for those who can speak English could understand shorthand.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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My bad, I thought for those who can speak English could understand shorthand.
I am dyslexic but I still try to be as clear as possible and spell correctly. Its considerate of others to take the time to proofread your comments before you post.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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Anyways......Back to the purpose of this thread. We have gotten off topic a bit

I offered what I think is a very good model for understanding the structure of the Trinity in post #98. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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I believe anyone that we can fully understand and explain is not someone we should worship. He is a diety, and His thoughts are not ours.

I think many here have given you the idea or concept of the trinity. One day it will be more perfectly clear. Until then, I believe the simplest way to understand is...

they are One, working together.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
You are watchtower aren't you?
I have debated these people
They have that same deflection.
Exact same deflection.



....even though i literally stuck your nose in it,your doctrine (which has watchtower alignment) will not allow you to agree with the word.
you know when you start accusing people of being in some cult it makes you look not so good, it makes you look desperate. the idea of me being a Mormon is pretty crazy, i am from arkansas and my dad is apache, the Mormons were notorious bigits, they murdered a wagon train from arkansas and blamed it on native americans.

So you have the father as co-creator?

My question would be WHY DO YOU NEED THE VERSES I POSTED TO BE REFRAMED?
YOU NEED MY VERSES REFRAMED.
STOP ACTING LIKE ONE VERSE CANCELS 6.
YOU ARE IN A MAJOR,MAJOR CONFLICT WITH THE WORD OF GOD.
i have the Father as the creator, Jesus may have had a part in it, i have no problem believing that, but Jesus said time and time again that His works were not his own but the power of the Father working through Him.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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I am dyslexic but I still try to be as clear as possible and spell correctly. Its considerate of others to take the time to proofread your comments before you post.


I apologize for not being clearer. I just thought since most were claiming many years in their Faith and studies, it would be easy to understand. I clearly was wrong.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Anyways......Back to the purpose of this thread. We have gotten off topic a bit

I offered what I think is a very good model for understanding the structure of the Trinity in post #98. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?


I think what all have offered is a good point of view in explaining the Trinity. I was only stating I think they are Spirit not Persons. Not sure why that is such a bad thing when I based it off of what Jesus said, God is a SPIRIT:
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Not sure why do you think the Bible or any translation is at odds with this... and in this I'll answer the OP's question.

"No one has ever seen God" - this refers to the Father, who isnt manifested, but absolute.

Son is the Father manifested - "the one who has seen Me has seen the Father", Son is God showing Himself in manifested world, thus Alpha and Omega - but Father is infinite.

Holy Spirit is Spirit of God, which may make one believe "well this is the same as the Father" but it's not (been there). If you look where and how the Spirit appears in the Bible, it is for instances upon the world or individuals in action. Father is absolute and unmanifested, so we must go through the Son to know Father, and in the NT we get begotten - Holy Spirit is in us, but this doesn't mean we're the supreme Father God.

Father and the Holy Spirit are not exactly the same. You cannot look at individual verses alone to get a comprehensive picture but you need to pull all references.

Spirit us simply what makes you you. You have your spirit, God has His. Essence. God's spirit or essence is Love. So it's easy to understand how the Father and the Son and also us share in the same Spirit.

We are made in God's image. We have mind that is not manifested (Father), word and right hand (works) and body that manifest us in the world (Son, body of Christ), and who we are (Spirit). God is love. The word persons or even "faces" (in my native language) is not the most fortunate choice since God is vast and escapes words (which is why God directs us to look at the image we are made in to understand Godhead), but word was chosen because Father Son and Spirit biblically interact. Our mind and body and spirit also interact, but it's still one being.


That's the point, I don't think the Bible is at odds with that explanation. To be fair though, that explanation was formatted in the 1st Century, some 1500 years before the KJV Bible was ever written. I love that explanation because it shows them all as Spirit. Even Jesus in John 4 says, that God is a Spirit. I don't see why we need anything else but how Jesus claimed it.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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1st of all....why are you quoting from the KJV is you disagree with it?

2nd.....Yes He was Spirit before the incarnation. He added human nature to His being permanently. Now He has a physical body.
Since His resurrection, "the fullness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form".
When he said "God is spirit", that was before His resurrection.
Now...."The entire Trinity completely dwells in Christ, in full manifestation and glory.
After Jesus' resurrection he had a glorified body, just like he had when he visited Abraham and the other Saints in the OT.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Jesus is believed to have read from the "Septuagint" the Greek written Old Testament. Also it is believed there was not a language Jesus did not know Being God.
Like you said to me before "is believed to have" is man's opinion :)

The Jews are a funny bunch, a prideful nation and it is more likely than not that they red the Hebrew scrolls. There was no Bible in those days and only the very rich could afford all the scrolls because it took a lot of sheep to create one Tanakh. They also teach Torah from a very young age and the Pharisees and Sadducees would have been taught in the Jewish ways. We can't even argue that. We also see when Jesus red from the Bible it was a scroll. In those days you had to go to the temple to read and the rest was taught by word of mouth, easy then to come to a conclusion that it happened in Hebrew.

Just out of interest sake, do you know of any Septuagint that was found that could be that old? They did some carbon dating on the very old Torah scrolls and to my knowledge it is the oldest written documents ever found (10 000 years by carbon dating standards :) ).

Thank you for the interesting conversation.

God bless brother
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Like you said to me before "is believed to have" is man's opinion :)

The Jews are a funny bunch, a prideful nation and it is more likely than not that they red the Hebrew scrolls. There was no Bible in those days and only the very rich could afford all the scrolls because it took a lot of sheep to create one Tanakh. They also teach Torah from a very young age and the Pharisees and Sadducees would have been taught in the Jewish ways. We can't even argue that. We also see when Jesus red from the Bible it was a scroll. In those days you had to go to the temple to read and the rest was taught by word of mouth, easy then to come to a conclusion that it happened in Hebrew.

Just out of interest sake, do you know of any Septuagint that was found that could be that old? They did some carbon dating on the very old Torah scrolls and to my knowledge it is the oldest written documents ever found (10 000 years by carbon dating standards :) ).

Thank you for the interesting conversation.

God bless brother
the NT when quoting the Hebrew bible usually syncs better with the LXX than the MZ.

Jesus -

Matthew 15:9 (KJV): "But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.

Isaiah 29:13 (KJV – MZ)
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Isaiah 29:13 (LXX):
13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.

and James -

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Proverbs 3:34 (KJV - MZ)
"Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly."

Proverbs 3:34 (LXX):
"The Lord resists the proud; but he gives grace to the humble."

the LXX is close to verbatim while the MZ is not even close.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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the NT when quoting the Hebrew bible usually syncs better with the LXX than the MZ.

Jesus -

Matthew 15:9 (KJV): "But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.

Isaiah 29:13 (KJV – MZ)
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Isaiah 29:13 (LXX):
13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.

and James -

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Proverbs 3:34 (KJV - MZ)
"Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly."

Proverbs 3:34 (LXX):
"The Lord resists the proud; but he gives grace to the humble."

the LXX is close to verbatim while the MZ is not even close.
Very interesting post.

Thank you and God bless :)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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He is His own race of Human and we will never be related, on by SPIRIT.
In rev 5 jesus is a man.
Specifically a man.
He is the kinsman redeemer.
Only a kinsman can redeem.
That is what we are...kinsmen with Jesus.
He redeemed his kinsfolk...us
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
What Bible is the KJV - MZ?
im pretty sure that every protestant bible uses MZ. in the case of the KJV it uses the bishops bible, bishops bible uses MZ.

but! there are several prophetic passages concerning the Christ that the MZ got pretty bad and forced the KJV and others to go back to the LXX.

Psalm 22 16

KJV
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

MZ
For dogs have surrounded me; a band of evildoers has encompassed me, like a lion, my hands and feet.

LXX
For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet.

when you remove the "pierced" hands and feet you remove the messionic meaning of the passage.

the DSS has the "pierced" hands and feet, and there is no "lion".