Till the Son of man be come

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Let's look at it like this, When Jesus died did he leave this earth? When he resurrected did he return to this earth? There is no doubt that Christs return from the dead was his second coming to earth but he is coming again at the end as far as I can tell.
So you believe Christ second coming happen 2000 years ago and He Will come for His third, am I correct?
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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First: You had a major persecution of the faithful arise (circa 40 AD), which in turn had the new Christians go underground, and so very little if any further Word was spread in the land of Israel at that time.
Second: The Word since the first century AD has been adulterated, and so the true gospel has yet to be preached in all of Judea, or throughout the world.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The thing I noticed in Matthew 24 is that there’s no mention of Christ’s return in verse 14, just the end comes. His coming is several verses later when it seems like it’s a recap of the previous verses.

Interesting though I hadn’t noticed that before.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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In Matt 26:64, Jesus said ".... from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Q1. Did He mean that from that moment on, they see Him die and resurrect as per your belief?

In Mark 9:1/Matthew 16:28/Luke 9:27 - same event, different accounts but is clear is the fact that the phrase 'the son of man coming' has been used interchangeably with 'the kingdom of God coming'. So, to me, Jesus comes back as the kingdom of God which no one can say "...there it is or here it comes..".

Q2. When you say His second coming is His death and resurrection, does it mean the kingdom of God came?
Q1 I believe is after the resurrection.
Q2 I believe the kingdom of God/heaven which no man can say here it is.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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The thing I noticed in Matthew 24 is that there’s no mention of Christ’s return in verse 14, just the end comes. His coming is several verses later when it seems like it’s a recap of the previous verses.

Interesting though I hadn’t noticed that before.
My perspective is the end that comes is the end of Satan's rule of the earth, when the Lord commences to reign.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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So you believe persecution always happen, but you believe persecution that cause disciple run from city to city only happen till Jesus resurrect, am I correct?
Persecution is persecution no matter when it happens but the persecution is not the point. The point is Jesus said he would come before those 12 disciples evangelized all of the cities of Israel.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Persecution is persecution no matter when it happens but the persecution is not the point. The point is Jesus said he would come before those 12 disciples evangelized all of the cities of Israel.
I think its generally about the new age that has come after the age of Israel. So, it can be 70 AD, for example.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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My perspective is the end that comes is the end of Satan's rule of the earth, when the Lord commences to reign.
I agree and do believe Christ will r
I think its generally about the new age that has come after the age of Israel. So, it can be 70 AD, for example.
i don’t think Christ returned in AD70.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Persecution is persecution no matter when it happens but the persecution is not the point. The point is Jesus said he would come before those 12 disciples evangelized all of the cities of Israel.
Jesus say

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

You believe the word till the Son of man be come mean till resurrection.

So you believe this verse happen before resurrection.

I do not think the 12 disciple run from one city to other before the resurrection If Jesus. Or can you profide with a verse that tell before resurection the apostle run from city to other city?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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He was there when he was crucified and resurrected so wouldnt that mean any future coming would be a return?
It can have several meanings. For example it can be metaphorical coming, like "I will come with my judgement".

Christ (or the gospel author) did not add any other indicators (like "before the son of man will come in His glory or in the end of the world etc.), so we can only guess what the verse means, IMHO.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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Jesus say

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

You believe the word till the Son of man be come mean till resurrection.

So you believe this verse happen before resurrection.

I do not think the 12 disciple run from one city to other before the resurrection If Jesus. Or can you profide with a verse that tell before resurection the apostle run from city to other city?
Yes I beleive the word till the Son of man be come means the resurrection but some people believe that means a spiritual return or the return of his presence in AD 70.

I don't know if the disciples went to any cities before Christ resurrected but Christ commanded them to. So then, if they hadn't gone to any of the cities before the resurrection, then the statement "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." is true.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yes I beleive the word till the Son of man be come means the resurrection but some people believe that means a spiritual return or the return of his presence in AD 70.

I don't know if the disciples went to any cities before Christ resurrected but Christ commanded them to. So then, if they hadn't gone to any of the cities before the resurrection, then the statement "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." is true.

So you believe from the day Jesus die to His resurection there was persecution and apostle run from one city to other.

This believe is because your interpretation :"till the Son of man be come" mean till resurrection.

So you believe the persecution that make apostle run from city to other city is during Jesus not come, or not with them after cross till resurection It only 3 days. I am not aware Bible say there is persecution during that 3 days period

In my opinion the word :"till the son of man come" on that verse mean the end time. And that verse is for Christian in general.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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No I don't believe the 2nd advent of Christ happened when Jesus rose. All I am saying is that Jesus left the earth at his death and he came back to earth at his resurrection. Just because a bible verse talks about Jesus coming or coming again doesn't always mean it's talking about the 2nd advent at the end of time.

If I visit New York and come back home to Louisville, KY and then I visit Miami on another visit and then I say When I return to Louisville, KY I am going buy a new car. Which return to Louisville am I speaking of, the return from New York or Miami?

You don't know which one I'm talking about right? I would have to give more information for you to determine which return I'm talking about.

In Matthew 24:3 when the disciples ask him the three questions, the one in specific ,,,,"and the sign of thy coming" were they asking him about his second advent or his first?

I'll speak of the question further by asking you is their any scripture to support that they understood that he would die then be raised from the grave,ascend to heaven and then return in a "second advent" later in any of the Gospels Matthew,Mark,Luke or John?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I believe Jesus talk about end time when there is persecution votes Christian move from city to other city. Persecution always happen but more in the end time. And will be worse when antichrist in power.


This video is a story that happen in aceh, indonesia. Unknown people burn the church make people run and move the church to saver area.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,228
560
113
I believe Jesus talk about end time when there is persecution votes Christian move from city to other city. Persecution always happen but more in the end time. And will be worse when antichrist in power.


This video is a story that happen in aceh, indonesia. Unknown people burn the church make people run and move the church to saver area.
In this video alone there are about 10 place where the church have to move because of riot.

So matt 10 is happening now more than during 3 days from the death of Jesus to resurrection and I believe will be worse during the antichrist in power.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

What are your thoughts on Jesus coming before the disciples went to all the cities of Israel?
The truth is all Israel knows about the Gospel, as well as the world, but Jesus has not come back yet.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

How can some of those Jews be alive today that were back at the time of Jesus if we say the kingdom comes in the future.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

The kingdom of God comes without observation and when you receive the Holy Spirit the kingdom of God is within you.

So what makes sense is at the day of Pentecost the kingdom of God came, and with power, and the disciples did not cover all the cities of Israel yet, and some did not taste of death until that happened, for it happened back then.

But the kingdom of God will come in the future which the saints will see.

The kingdom of God came when they received the Spirit for the saints display the ways of the kingdom of God on earth, and not the earthly ways of the heathen.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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No doubt the spiritual kingdom is now, but the preceding verses are taken by most people to be the 7 year tribulation which would indicate the Op verse refers to the Son of mans return at the time of the tribulation.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

When there is a falling away first, which is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which they stop the preaching of it worldwide, for religion is about evolution, and people can still evolve, and anything contrary is a hate crime, and disturbing peace that they want, which happens during the first three and one half years, which is the time the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but according to their own lusts, and the man of sin, New Age Christ claims to be God, and they follow him and take the mark of the beast, which has to do with technology, then the saints can be gathered unto Christ.

The beast persecutes the saints for the last three and one half years, for they make war with the saints and prevail against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people all things shall be finished, which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father when He shall have put down all rule, and authority, and power.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

After the beast makes war against the saints they shall be resurrected to heaven, and the world will attack Israel and then Jesus will come back with the saints and defeat the world, and save Israel, and the kingdom restored to Israel, and Jesus and the saints will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon, so there is a physical reign of Christ on earth.

Jesus has to fulfill the law, which has to be done on earth, which He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth, for He came as a humble servant to save us, and not to rule, so there has to be a time of Jesus ruling on earth that people can actually see Him.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Some people will say that Zechariah 14 is when the Roman Empire went against Jerusalem, the Jews, but that is not true for it says that God will gather all the nations together against Jerusalem.

But then some will say but it means the then known world, bu that is not true for the Roman Empire went against them, for was Egypt and Africa there that was known, and was Asia there that was known, and was Arab nations there that was known, they were not but it was the Roman Empire that went against them, and not even all nations in the then known world.

The whole earth shall be gathered together against Jerusalem.

The first attack God allowed it to happen without fighting against the Roman Empire, but the second attack on Jerusalem God fights them and puts them down which is in the future, which then the LORD is King over all the earth, and there shall be one LORD, and His name one, and the knowledge of the LORD shall cover the whole earth, which all people of the world will only acknowledge the God of Israel and no one else from that time forward, which we know could not be true back then.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I would think because God is not a man as us. Never was never could be and neither is there a fleshly as that seen mediator as a infallible umpire set between God and man. To look for another outward demonstration of the work of God not seen... pouring out His unseen Spirit on flesh who as lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world before he rested form all His works. And not in respect to the demonstration of the work he already performed from the foundation . We walk by faith the eternal, not seen and not in respect to the temporal, as that seen.

The verse "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come" is in respect to coming in the unseen glory of the father, as God. The Son of man was already there .

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

He is not coming back as the Son of man the temporal as that seen.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2Corinthians 5:16

We are the temple of God Christ lives in us. The Son of man will come in the unseen glory of the father as a thief in the night, just as in the time of Noah. Noah like believers today are watching for Him as unseen, but he will still come as a thief in the night. We have the privilege to watch .No man knows the day our hour. Again we walk by faith the unseen eternal not by sight after the things seen the temporal . What we are or what the eyes see is not the new heavens and earth.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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That would be oversimplification of what Jesus said. What would you say of this:

Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself, Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Mark 9:1 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

Matthew 16:28
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Luke 9:27
But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."

Rev. 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev. 20:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev. 20:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Everyone ever born will be raised and judged. Some will be raised in the first resurrection, some not until after the 1000 years reign.

The 2nd death is the real death. No more resurrections from that one. But all who partake in the 2nd death will wake to see the Christ, the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of God, with power. These won't taste permanent death until they see this.