Tim Keller: 3+ Questions Fake Christians Can’t Answer

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OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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#1
(Larger article @ Church Leaders)
Watch the video and answer in a post if you wish. :)

I'll wait for a first post so as not to take away from the first encounter with the short 2 minute video.

Blessings.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#2
Wow, Pastor Keller definitely knows how to quietly squeeze a lot of important/valuable questions into a 2 minute recording :)

This is just a quick observation, but it seemed to me a funny thing to think about some of the questions that he asked/asked us to consider while remembering where I am, in the cyber world of online Christianity. Out here MANY 1. believe that God's grace is no longer necessary because as believers, they've already perfected by it once and for all .. cf 1 John 3:9) or 2. simply pay lip service, at best, to both grace/faith, believing that what 'THEY' do is really the key to their salvation (rather than what 'HE' did for them .. 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:8-10; Ephesians 2:4-5, 8-10; Titus 3:5).

~Deut
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#3
*Missed a few errors in my post above and ran out of time before I noticed them. Hopefully I caught them all this time around:


Wow, Pastor Keller definitely knows how to quietly squeeze a lot of important/valuable questions into a 2 minute recording :)

This is just a quick observation, but it seemed to me a funny thing to think about some of the questions that he asked/asked us to consider while remembering where I am, in the cyber-world of online Christianity. MANY out here 1. believe that God's grace is no longer necessary because as believers, they've already been perfected by it once and for all .. cf 1 John 3:9, or they 2. simply pay lip service, at best, to both grace/faith, believing that what 'THEY' do is really the key to their salvation (rather than what 'HE' did for them .. 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:8-10; Ephesians 2:4-5, 8-10; Titus 3:5).

~Deut
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#4
Nope, I still missed this one little bit: "they've already been perfected by it once and for all AND CAN NO LONGER SIN .. cf 1 John 3:9 "

Sorry about that. Clearly I could use a cup of :coffee: tonight, but it's just too late around here for that.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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#5
I watched this video and this man is spot on... Sin will always find you out, I would rather it find me out when reading my Bible and G-d convicts me and not in front of a public audience.... The thing I know the longer I have have been saved (28+ years) the more wicked my heart is; even if I look good on the outside my mind, my heart, my thoughts are as equal sin to Perfection as what others see.... I'm grateful I sin less than I did 28 years ago, but I am not sinless... G-d and G-d alone, Hs mercy and grace thru Messiah is how I'm getting home.... And trust me I WILL BE IN HEAVEN BECAUSE OF MESSIAH!!!!
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#6
Good questions to think about:

First question:

How real has God been this week to your heart?


Second question:

How clear and vivid is your assurance and certainty of God’s forgiveness and fatherly love? To what degree is that real to you right now?

Are you having any particular seasons of sweet delight in God? Do you really sense His presence in your life? Do you really sense Him giving you His love?

Have you been finding Scripture to be alive and active? Instead of just being a book, does it feel like it's coming at you and searching you and really, really alive and active and coming after you?

Are you finding certain biblical promises extremely precious and encouraging? Which ones?

Are you finding God's challenging you or calling you to something through the Word? In what ways?


Third question:

Are you finding God’s grace more glorious and moving now than you have in the past?

Are you conscious of a growing sense of the evil of your heart and in response a growing dependence on and grasp of the preciousness of the mercy of God?
Put together, that is a growing understanding of grace.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#7
I cannot imagine living life without walking hand-in-hand with Jesus. He guides us and helps us. He brings comfort, He strengthens, He upholds.

He brings us right into the throne room of the Father and it is there that we find love to share with those we come in contact with, joy in the midst of sorrow, peace in the midst of the calamity that surrounds us, endurance to continue on in faith, kindness and goodness to share with others, faith to serve God as He calls us, gentleness in response to the harshness we see in the world, self control as opposed to self gratification.

Sadly, there are people in this world who want nothing to do with God. They live their lives oblivious to what God has in His Heart for people. They wander aimlessly trying to fulfill the ever-increasing lusts of their flesh and never find satisfaction because they turn from the One Who is able to completely satisfy and fulfill.


Psalm 107:

8 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!

9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#8
What will you do with Jesus? Neutral you cannot be for someday your heart will be asking what will He do for me?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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#9
Taken from the transcript to make it easier to answer.


"Let me give you what I would call my
modernized American version of the kinds
of questions I would ask people if I was
trying to get them to really think about
whether or not they know Christ whether
they're - these are questions designed
to wake up sleepy Christians and to
convert nominal Christians so here's a
couple questions.

How real has God been
this week to your heart?
__________________________________Very present. And as my life unfolded day to day I gave thanks throughout the _____________________________________________________________day.

God's forgiveness and fatherly love to
what degree is that real to you right
now are you having any particular
seasons of sweet delight in God do you
really sense his presence in your life
do you really sense him giving you his love? ____________God loves me even in times when I don't like myself. I know he knows all _________________________________________________________things. When I repent of what I've done wrong I feel free and closer to that _________________________________________________________holy spirit that never releases me from his great big universal hug of, "I love _________________________________________________________youuuuuu!"



Have you been finding scripture to be alive and________It is fascinating to stop and pray, pay, attention to the contemporary world. And
active the scripture instead of just_____________________then see how it comports with what scripture shares in order to deal with it. Or,
being a book does it feel like it's_______________________to see how history in the Bible is repeating itself in the new century. When we're
coming at you and searching you and and______________able then to realize that it can occur to us that we need to change what we're
and really really alive and active and___________________doing. In order to stop that loop from continuing on. To start a new future after
coming after you are you finding certain_______________learning from what we recognize as a bad, shameful, or errant past. Personally
biblical promises extremely precious and______________and globally.
encouraging? Which ones are you finding
God's challenging you are calling you to
something through the word in what ways?

The third question are you
finding are you finding God's grace more
glorious and moving now than you have in
the past?
Yes!


Are you conscious of a growing
sense of the evil of your heart and in
response a growing dependence on and
grasp of the preciousness of the mercy
of God you see put together that is a
growing understanding of grace? "


________________________



 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,634
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#10
Would it not be much easier and more direct to ask one question?

Do you know that if you died right now this very instant that you would go to heaven? Know with absolute certainty no hoping or guessing but with real assurance. If not why not and what will you do about it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
408
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#11
The last question didn't get to post the answer so here it is.
Are you conscious of a growing
sense of the evil of your heart and in
response a growing dependence on and
grasp of the preciousness of the mercy
of God you see put together that is a
growing understanding of grace? "


Yes, I see how Satan tempts the saints.
Were it not for grace I don't know that would be so easily discernible.
________________________
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#12
why do all these question seem to focus on personal human feelings, emotions and impressions?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
Because we're now spiritual beings navigating as people a fallen world?
ok, but how do i get from there to discerning genuine believers from fake by basically asking them how they feel?

the implied question of the video is, here's a random person who professes to be a Christian, what questions can you ask to discern whether they really are or not? i.e. how can a person separate wheat from chaff by holding a 5 to 10 minute conversation with someone who claims to be a believer?
i was surprised to hear questions about the person's emotional state, rather than questions about what they believe. i'm not sure i'm following Keller's logic.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#15
how can a person separate wheat from chaff by holding a 5 to 10 minute conversation with someone who claims to be a believer?

((setting aside for a moment that it's not man's office to separate wheat from chaff, of course - re: Matthew 13:24-30, esp. vv.30 & 41))

i also don't get what kind of question '
how real is God to you..' is supposed to be??

He's real. He's either real or not, and He's real.

'reality' doesn't come in degrees. i can't put on a shirt that's "
mostly real" or watch birds that are "a little bit real but not very." nobody ever had a friend who was partially imaginary??


i dunno. i find this video bizarre, but it seems to be 'just me' o_0
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,982
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#16
why do all these question seem to focus on personal human feelings, emotions and impressions?

put it this way,

if i ask someone these questions am i finding out if they belong to Christ or am i finding out if they're lucid & in a good mood?
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
408
83
#17
ok, but how do i get from there to discerning genuine believers from fake by basically asking them how they feel?

the implied question of the video is, here's a random person who professes to be a Christian, what questions can you ask to discern whether they really are or not? i.e. how can a person separate wheat from chaff by holding a 5 to 10 minute conversation with someone who claims to be a believer?
i was surprised to hear questions about the person's emotional state, rather than questions about what they believe. i'm not sure i'm following Keller's logic.
Are we not what we believe ourselves to be? As people? As Christians? Consider how many persons you've encountered who say they are Christian. Maybe do this as a social experiment in the coming week. People you know who profess Christ. Stay quiet when you can and watch the parallel. That which they say of themselves and that which they do as themselves.

Keller's query is apt. Think about it.
It reflects how easy it is to say, "I'm a Christian." "And here's why....."
The proof is in the words that become action. Or not.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#18
Keller's questions on this occasion were directed to pastors/elders/leaders were they not? I assume he was giving multiple examples to these leaders to take back with them to their members to help them discover where they are/where they aren't/where they should be in their walks (or even to discover that they really aren't Christians at all .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43). Perhaps he was also giving them ideas/specific examples of rhetorical questions to help both their members and visitors answer this admonishment for themselves .. 2 Corinthians 13:5?

~Deut

..........2 Corinthians 13
..........5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that
..........Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#19
i was surprised to hear questions about the person's emotional state, rather than questions about what they believe. i'm not sure i'm following Keller's logic.
If the idea is to determine whether a person is a child of God, the only question worth asking is "Do you know that you've been born again?"

However, if those questions are meant to determine a person's fellowship with God at the moment, then that is a separate issue. Job was righteous in the sight of God but felt totally abandoned (as do many Christians).
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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#20
Job definitely didn't feel 'totally abandoned' by his Saviour -
else, he would have just 'given-up' as we all would have done before coming to
really believe-in and KNOW Jesus Christ...

Job is one of our ultimate 'teachers', Spiritually given to us by Jesus...
He not only believed in his Saviour, but He counted on Him to deliver him
from all of his travails...