"TO DAY" alternative re: Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

[stilllearning]

Thanks for your valuable insights. I find them very useful. BTW.....I am about as far from an expert in Greek as is possible just to let everyone know.

One other point that some may find interesting:

"Verily" is equivalent to our "Amen". And every time Jesus uses this term, it is a declaration of His identity as eternal God YHVH, His infallibility and infinity. This the Pharisees and leaders fully understood......."teaching with authority and not as the scribes".

The KJV translates Strong's G281 in the following manner: verily (101x), amen (51x).

Transliteration
amēn (Key)
Pronunciation
am-ane'

I did the study some years ago. We are both pre-trib and that is originally why I did the study on the comma and who invented, how they used it, and such. So all that to say what made me look it up and it's history and usage is II Thess2..... Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

I know commas are used to connect two independent clauses. So was curious if that was how it was used for the falling away and the anti-christ being revealed. Truth was after I read all the different info and rules I still had no clue so have had on my mind to at some point find someone who is not saved and a English major. Or someone academically qualified that just knows and understands grammar and punctuation. Unsaved so they have no bias towards end time events.

Just have them look at the sentence and give me a non biased explanation. Anyway that is why I even looked it up.

 

[Blade]

Yeah I doubt they got this wrong. I stopped at 24 translations comma after you yet others had no comma and it changed nothing. For you it seems to say "(In other words, this day you are saved or today is the day.....you are eternally saved!) which it does not say this. It means exactly what Christ said.. today you will be with me in paradise.

 

[Dino246]

Gee... I wonder why Jesus didn't add "Today" every other time He said, "I tell you the truth".

Maybe because it was part of the second clause, not the first.

 

[HeIsHere]

Remember.....commas are not in the Greek. They have been added by scribes/commentators.

Luk 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

IMO should read:

Luk 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee THIS DAY (COMMA SHOULD BE HERE?)***,*** G4594 shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(In other words, this day you are saved or today is the day.....you are eternally saved!)

The KJV translates Strong's G4594 in the following manner: this day (22x), to day (18x), this (with G3588) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. this (very) day)
2. what has happened today

BTW, placing the comma in the proper location clears up a LOT of confusion.

Adventists use this to teach soul sleep.

This does away with that incorrect understanding, well done. Thanks.

 

[cv5]

Adventists use this to teach soul sleep.

This does away with that incorrect understanding, well done. Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words.

If you can elaborate I would appreciate it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thanks for the kind words.

If you can elaborate I would appreciate it.

It was a while ago, I visited a Seventh Day Adventist Church as part of a course.

The minister talked about soul sleep as a unique tenet they hold and one of his proof texts was Luke 23:43.

His stated the comma was in the wrong place in the Bible and the comma should be after the word "today" so as to repudiate the idea that the thief would be with Jesus on that very day, but rather that the thief would go to soul sleep and await the resurrection of the dead.

We had a little discussion on it as that was my first time hearing this idea, it did seem a little redundant to me that "today" would be connected to Jesus' words rather than being in paradise today.

He also mentioned that John 20:17 proves the thief could not have been in paradise on that same day with Jesus because He had not yet ascended.

I did not know ancient Greek did not have commas back then but I still did not believe him. lol

 

[HeIsHere]

Luk 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

IMO should read:

I do agree with your point but I do think this is the correct placement of the comma for it to mean what you are saying.
putting the coma after today means that paradise is some indeterminate time in the future.

I was just reading that the Watch Tower Bible has the comma after today because they believe people need to wait for entrance to paradise.

But Paul states,

KJ21 2Cor 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.