Today's Bible Babble Buffet in Action

[brandplucked]

Today's Bible Babel Buffet in Action - a look at some of the hundreds of such examples of different meanings found in the multitude of conflicting bible versions on the market today. Here are just a few examples to start off this comparative study. The meanings are often the very opposite of what is found in the King James Bible and many others when we compare what is found in many modern versions.

Here is a direct quote from a typical 21st century professing Christian, who is a grown man, and should know better. He said to me: "We can't know that the copies are exactly word for word from the originals. But the truth has been preserved even if some of the wording may be different." Well, in response I told him the obvious - that when we change the words we change "the truth". Let's see if he is right or terribly wrong.

Genesis 27:39-40

KJB thy dwelling SHALL BE the fatness of the earth
NIV Your dwelling will be AWAY FROM the earth’s richness
NASB, ESV - AWAY FROM the fertility of the earth shall be your dwelling



Job 16:20
KJB My friends SCORN me: but mine eye poureth out tears unto God.
NIV My intercessor IS MY FRIEND as my eyes pour out tears to God.



Psalm 10:4, 5
KJB wicked…..His ways are always GRIEVOUS
NIV wicked…..His ways are always prosperous
NKJV wicked…..His ways are always prospering
ESV wicked…..His ways prosper at all times
HCSB wicked…..His ways are always secure

Psalm 29:9
KJB The voice of the LORD maketh the HINDS TO CALVE
NIV The voice of the LORD TWISTS THE OAKS


Proverbs 18:24
KJB A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly
NASB A man of many friends COMES TO RUIN
NIV A man of many companions MAY COME TO RUIN
ESV A man of many companions MAY COME TO RUIN
HCSB A man with many friends MAY BE HARMED

Proverbs 22:20 "excellent things", "three times" or "thirty sayings"?
KJB (RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV) -Have not I written unto thee EXCELLENT THINGS
NIV, ESV - Have I not written for you THIRTY SAYINGS of counsel and knowledge
Young's - "Have I not written to thee THREE TIMES with counsels and knowledge?

Proverbs 25:23
KJB The north wind DRIVETH AWAY rain
NIV As a north wind BRINGS rain
NASB The north wind BRINGS forth rain
ESV The north wind BRINGS forth rain

Proverbs 26:22
KJB The words of a talebearer are as WOUNDS
NIV The words of a gossip are like choice morsels
NASB The words of a whisperer are like dainty morsels
ESV The words of a whisperer are delicious morsels
HCSB A gossip’s words are like choice food


Ecclesiastes 8:10
KJB wicked…..were FORGOTTEN
NIV wicked…..receive praise
ESV wicked…..were praised

Isaiah 9:1
KJB afterward did more GRIEVOUSLY AFFLICT …….Galilee
NASB later on He shall make it glorious…….Galilee
NIV in the future he will honor Galilee
ESV in the latter time he has made glorious….Galilee

Isaiah 9:3
KJB NOT increased their joy
NIV, TNIV increased the joy
NKJV increased its joy
ESV increased its joy
NASB increased their gladness


Jeremiah 51:3
KJB LET the archer BEND his bow
ESV Let NOT the archer BEND his bow
NIV Let NOT the archer STRING his bow
NASB Let NOT him who BENDS his bow BEND it


Hosea 10:1
KJB Israel is an EMPTY vine
NASB Israel is a luxuriant vine
ESV Israel is a luxuriant vine
NIV Israel was a spreading vine

Hosea 11:12
KJB Judah yet RULETH WITH God
NIV Judah is UNRULY AGAINST God
NASB Judah is also UNRULY AGAINST God


Colossians 2:18
KJB things which he hath NOT seen
NIV, TNIV, ISV what he HAS seen
NASB visions he HAS seen
RSV, ESV, Holman, NET = NASB, NIV.

Colossians 4:8
KJB HE might know YOUR estate
ESV YOU may know how WE ARE
HCSB YOU may know how WE ARE
NIV YOU may know about OUR CIRCUMSTANCES
TNIV YOU may know about OUR CIRCUMSTANCES

Hebrews 3:16
KJB - For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
NKJV - For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
ESV -For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses?
NIV - Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?

Now, let's look at some of these examples in more detail and see why the King James Bible is right, as always.

Bible Babel 1 - Another King James Bible Believer

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor. 14:38

God bless.

 

[zone]

brandplucked , does the KJV teach pretribulation rapture?

 

[Angela53510]

It might be more relevant if you compared the KJV to the original languages. No one says there is a perfect Bible and that includes KJV. Well, I guess someone authorized it, but to my knowledge, that was not God.

Besides, none of these examples affect having good or bad doctrine. You can find bad doctrine in any Bible, and KJV is no exception, if you want to believe something wrong, and twist Scriptures to suit your taste, as Kath points out!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Zechariah 14:5
KJB - And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

NJB - The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

LXX - The valley of my mountains shall be blocked up; and the valley of mountains shall be closed up even to Jasod [Jasol/Azal]. It shall be blocked up as it was in the days of the earthquake in the days of Ozias [Uzziah] king of Juda.

NAB - And the valley of the LORD'S mountain shall be filled up when the valley of those two mountains reaches its edge; it shall be filled up as it was filled up by the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah.

CLV - And the ravine of My mountains is stopped up for the ravine of the mountains shall touch to Azal. And it is stopped up just as it was stopped up from before the quake in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah.

Now, let's look at some of these examples in more detail and see why the King James Bible is wrong.

Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 | An indepth analysis of Zechariah 14:5


"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor. 14:38

God bless.

 

[crossnote]

Somtimes context helps clarify the best pick.

Otherwise it's an age old debate (well at least since the late 1800's) between manuscripts which are older but fewer vs. somewhat later but with a majority of support. The KJV falls into the latter camp.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

It might be more relevant if you compared the KJV to the original languages. No one says there is a perfect Bible and that includes KJV. Well, I guess someone authorized it, but to my knowledge, that was not God.

When you say the original languages Angela, I take it that you are referring to Koine Greek and Hebrew, correct?

Angela, you do realize that the Greek that is spoken today in Greece is not the same as Koine Greek, don't you?

There is a perfect Bible. And that Bible is the Authorized King James Version.

Angela, we need to have a perfect Final Authority to submit to.

If there is no Perfect Final Authority, then our feelings and preferences become the standard for truth.

It's a good thing that God did indeed give us a Perfect Final Written Authority, and again, it is the King James Holy Bible.

And you can either choose to submit to that Final Authority or choose not to. But if you choose not to submit to God's Final Authority, then you automatically become your own final authority.

 

[Nautilus]

it seems like all the other versions match ore or less..maybe the KJV is the one that has it wrong and youre following a false bible.

 

[directline2iam]

No translation is ever completely successful, however, whether of the Bible or any other text. All translations fall short for a variety of reasons. First, no two languages are equivalent in their vocabulary, sounds, rhythms, idioms, or underlying structure. Nor are any two cultures out of which languages arise equivalent in their way of understanding and expressing reality, their value systems, or their social and political organization, among other factors. Second, the meaning of a text includes much more than its abstract thought. The sounds and rhythms of words, word play and puns, emotional overtones, metaphor, figurative language, and tone are just some of the other devices that carry meaning. No translation can transfer all these things from one language to another. Third, all translation requires interpretation. One cannot convey meaning in a second language without first deciding what it means in the original. This step of interpretation in translation is unavoidable and imperfect; equally skilled and well-meaning scholars will interpret differently. Fourth, a traditional translation requires one to choose a single possibility—whether of a word or an interpretation—when in fact two or more may be plausible.

 

[brandplucked]

brandplucked , does the KJV teach pretribulation rapture?

Hi zone. People see No rapture, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib,or Amillenialism in ANY version, and everybody defends what they think they see. In this issue, I don't think the versions themselves make any difference in what one thinks is the right view.

 

[brandplucked]

it seems like all the other versions match ore or less..maybe the KJV is the one that has it wrong and youre following a false bible.

Hi Nautilus. And that is precisely why you are a bible agnostic and an unbeliever in the infallibility of the Bible. You just don't know and don't have any convictions except for the one that you don't know. You are not alone in this biblical agnosticism and unbelief. Most Christians today fall into this same category.

 

[brandplucked]

No translation is ever completely successful, however, whether of the Bible or any other text. All translations fall short for a variety of reasons.

And this again is why you are a typical 21st century bible agnostic who does not believe that ANY Bible in ANY language IS or ever WAS the complete and infallible words of God. IF you think you do, then simply show us this infallible UNtranslated Bible you apparently want us to think you are privy to that is the inerrant words of God. Will you do that for us? Not a chance, huh?

 

[zone]

I don't think the versions themselves make any difference in what one thinks is the right view.

*realizes the KJV-only thing was silly all along*

 

[megaman125]

I clicked on this thread not knowing what to expect, then after reading I found out this was one of those KJV-onlyist threads. Well, that means it's time to bust out my fun facts.

Fun fact #1: The KJV was not the first English translation of the Bible.
Fun fact #2: Jesus did not teach KJV only.
Fun fact #3: The translators of the KJV were not KJV-onlyists.

 

[brandplucked]

Hi all. For you "only the originals are inspired and inerrant" folks out there in Bible Babble Buffet Land, can any of you tell us which (if any) of the following is the reading found in your "originals"? Just pick one example, if you like, and let us know. Thanks.

Most Evangelical Christians today do not believe that any Bible in any language IS the inerrant words of God. In spite of the lame, signifying nothing, recent Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, they did get one thing right. It’s found in Article XII - “We deny that Biblical infallibility and inerrancy are limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes, exclusive of assertions in the fields of history and science.” Every true Bible believer should agree with this statement. IF the Bible is not 100% historically true, then at what point does God start to tell us the truth? If we cannot trust God's Book when it comes to specific numbers and names when it comes to past history, then how can we be sure He got the other parts right?

It is devastating for the modern version promoter to see where the New Jerusalem Catholic bible lands on these verses. Also notice how the previous Catholic Douay-Rheims read. It was a whole lot closer to the historical truth than are these more modern translations.

The following short list is just a sampling of the divergent and confusing readings found among the contradictory modern bible versions. There are numerous other examples, but these are just a few to make you aware of what is going on here with "the late$t in $cholar$hip Finding$".

Among these “historic details” are whether Jeremiah 27:1 reads Jehoiakim (Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, NKJV, KJB, ISV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970) or Zedekiah (RSV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, Holman, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985)

1 Samuel 13:1 Here we read: “Saul reigned ONE year; and when he had reigned TWO years over Israel, Saul chose him three thousand men of Israel.” reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva, Judaica Press Tanach, Orthodox Jewish Bible), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), OR 30 years/ 40 years (NET) or _____years and______and two years (RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985), or "was 40 years old...and when he had reigned 2 years" (Amplified bible 1987) or "____years old and reigned 2 years" (Complete Jewish bible, Knox bible) or "was 30 years old...ruled for 42 years" (ISV, Common English Bible) or “32 years old...reigned for 22 years” in the 1989 Revised English Bible, or even "was 50 years old and reigned 22 years." in the New English Bible of 1970!

But wait. There's even more. The ESV 2001 edition had "Saul was________years old when he began to reign, and he reigned____and two years over Israel." But now the 2011 edition of the ESV has come out (I have a hard copy right here in front of me) and it now has the perhaps even more ridiculous reading of "Saul LIVED FOR ONE YEAR AND THEN BECAME KING, and when he had reigned FOR TWO YEARS over Israel, Saul chose 3000 men of Israel...". Think about it. "Saul lived for one year and then became king". They just get loopier and loopier, don't they?

whether 2 Samuel 21:8 reads Michal (Hebrew texts, KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, Douay-Rheims) or Merab (RSV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, Holman, ISV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or 70 (NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, Holman, ISV, KJB) being sent out by the Lord Jesus in Luke 10:1 and 17 or 72 (NIV, ESV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or in Matthew 18:22 does the Lord say to forgive your brother not “until 7 times, but unto 70 times 7 times” (= 490 times - KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, RSV, ESV, ISV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph NAB, ALL Greek texts) or 77 times (NRSV, NIV, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or the 7th day in Judges 14:15 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, Douay-Rheims) or the 4th day (RSV, ESV, NASB, NIV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem) or "the NEXT day" ISV (they just made this up!)

Or Hannah taking young Samuel to the house of the LORD with THREE bullocks in 1 Samuel 1:24 (KJB, Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, JPS 1917, NKJV, Youngs, NET, Douay-Rheims) or “A THREE YEAR OLD BULL: (LXX, Syriac RSV, ESV, NIV, NASB, ISV, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or God smiting 50,070 men in 1 Samuel 6:19 (KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, NET, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 70 men slain (RSV, NIV, NRSV, ESV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem), or “70 men- 50 chief men” (Young’s), or “70 MEN OUT OF 50,000 Holman Standard

or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or only 3000 (NIV, NET, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

2 Samuel 15:7 “forty years” (KJB, Hebrew, Geneva, NKJV, NASB, RV, Douay-Rheims) OR “four years” (NIV, RSV, ESV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem). The ISV ADDS words to the Hebrew text to make it say what they think it means, saying: "And so it was that forty years after Israel had demanded a king, Absalom asked the king..."

or whether both 2 Samuel 23:18 and 1 Chronicles 11:20 read “chief of the THREE” (KJB, Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, NKJV, NRSV, Holman, NIV, NET, Holman, NET, Douay-Rheims) or THIRTY from the Syriac (NASB, RSV, ESV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem) The ISV completely omits any number and just makes up their own text saying: "in charge of the platoons"

or 2 Samuel 24:13 reading SEVEN years (KJB, Hebrew, ASV, NASB, NKJV, NET, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or THREE years (LXX, NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or whether 1 Kings 4:26 reads 40,000 stalls of horses (Hebrew, KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, ESV, NKJV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 4,000 stalls (NIV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or whether 1 Kings 5:11 reads 20 measures of pure oil (Hebrew texts, Geneva, KJB, ASV, RV, NASB, NRSV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 20,000 (RSV, NIV, ESV, NET, LXX and Syriac, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or in 2 Chronicles 31:16 we read "males from THREE years old" (Hebrew texts, KJB, Geneva Bible, Wycliffe, LXX, Syriac, RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NIV, NKJV, Holman, NET, Douay-Rheims) or "males from THIRTY years old" (NASB - ft. Hebrew “three”, ISV -"every male 30 years old and older", St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or where 2 Chronicles 36:9 reads that Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign (Hebrew texts, KJB, NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV, KJB, RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or he was 18 years old (NIV, Holman, NET, ESV 2007 edition!!! and once again the Catholic St. Joseph NAB and the New Jerusalem)

or that when God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead it is stated in Acts 13:33 “this day have I begotten thee” (KJB, NASB, NKJV, RV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph NAB) or “today I have become your Father” (NIV, Holman, NET, ISV, Catholic New Jerusalem).

If you go back and read through this list of just some of the numerous very real differences that exist among these Bible of the Month Club versions, ask yourself which (if any) are the 100% historically true words of God. IF "the Bible" is not 100% historically true in the events it narrates, then when does God start to tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

As for the ESV, you can see a lot more examples of how this revamped RSV version often rejects the clear Hebrew readings and has changed over 300 verses from the 2001 to the 2007 editions - The ESV - Another King James Bible Believer

 

[LT]

do you guys have nothing better to debate? this topic is getting old. I almost want to keep debating you, but it's just too easy, and you 2 are just so... stubborn? brainwashed? full of circular reasoning? idk, any of those adjectives will do.

pretty much what I'm saying is:
if the KJV is better than our Bibles, give us some of it's teachings! If you have some knowledge of God that has been hidden from us because of our corrupt translations, please share it with us, and correct our doctrines!

all i see is argument over words (2 Tim 2:14) < read that. it applies to you brandplucked.
I see no edification (except that we all are reading the wrong translation)
Even if you are right (which we know, you believe you are) then show us how it makes a doctrinal difference! Show us how we have become Vaticanized, and all the things that the true Bible teaches.

Tell me a doctrine that can't be found in my ESV that is explicitly found in the KJV. (not just one verse that has a different meaning, but an actual doctrine)

 

[crossnote]

Gee, I suppose Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic weren't the original languages of Scripture after all..I wonder which version of the KJV Moses wrote?
(tongue in cheek, in case your tempted to correct the above).

 

[brandplucked]

do you guys have nothing better to debate? this topic is getting old. I almost want to keep debating you, but it's just too easy, and you 2 are just so... stubborn? brainwashed? full of circular reasoning? idk, any of those adjectives will do.

pretty much what I'm saying is:
if the KJV is better than our Bibles, give us some of it's teachings! If you have some knowledge of God that has been hidden from us because of our corrupt translations, please share it with us, and correct our doctrines!

all i see is argument over words (2 Tim 2:14) < read that. it applies to you brandplucked.
I see no edification (except that we all are reading the wrong translation)
Even if you are right (which we know, you believe you are) then show us how it makes a doctrinal difference! Show us how we have become Vaticanized, and all the things that the true Bible teaches.

Tell me a doctrine that can't be found in my ESV that is explicitly found in the KJV. (not just one verse that has a different meaning, but an actual doctrine)

Hi LT. I think the reason you are tired of this subject is because you don't believe that ANY Bible IS the infallible words of God, so you find it just a tad uncomfortable when somebody does and can tell you exactly where to get it = the King James Bible. As for your ESVs (three revisions in just 10 years) NOBODY seriously believes it is the infallible words of God AND it is one of the new Vatican Versions. You don't believe it? Well, here is the PROOF that your ever changing, uninspired and definitely NOT infallible ESV is one of the Vatican Versions.

The Ever Changing ESVs = just another Vatican Version

The ESV - Another King James Bible Believer

Will you actually take the time to READ it and compare your ESV to the KJB and see the documentation and quotes from the Nestle-Aland, UBS and Vatican sites? Or just hide your head in the sand and hope it all goes away? God bless.

 

[brandplucked]

Gee, I suppose Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic weren't the original languages of Scripture after all..I wonder which version of the KJV Moses wrote?
(tongue in cheek, in case your tempted to correct the above).

Hi Crossnote. You have NO fixed or certain Hebrew or Greek text you refer to here. Most modern versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET etc. reject numerous Hebrew readings and there are at least 25 different "the" Greek texts out there and they keep changing all the time. The modern versions has NO single Hebrew text he believes and certainly NO single Greek text. You have a phantom bible that is not even in print. It's an invisible and imaginary "bible" you guys keep referring to in "the Hebrew and the Greek" that none of you can decided upon and none of you actually believes is the infallible words of God anyway.

IF you think you do, the give us a link to where we can see it. Not to worry; the UBS/Nestle-Aland, Vatican "interconfessional" texts will change it again in a few months. They are already working on their 29th edition. Happy hunting for your imaginary "original language text".

 

[crossnote]

Brandplucked,
This verse below is KJV and shows the goal of Scripture. Have you done so and are you continually doing so? Any version will do.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

 

[megaman125]

Seems the KJV onlyist had nothing to counter any of my fun facts. Well, it's not worth the time for me to do more, but I want to address one of the things he just brought up.

or the 7th day in Judges 14:15 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, Douay-Rheims) or the 4th day (RSV, ESV, NASB, NIV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem) or "the NEXT day" ISV (they just made this up!)

Let's look at ESV and KJV, starting in verse 14.

And he said to them, “Out of the eater came something to eat. Out of the strong came something sweet.” And in three days they could not solve the riddle. On the fourth day they said to Samson’s wife, “Entice your husband to tell us what the riddle is, lest we burn you and your father’s house with fire. Have you invited us here to impoverish us?”
Judges 14:14-15 (ESV)


And he said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they said unto Samson's wife, Entice thy husband, that he may declare unto us the riddle, lest we burn thee and thy father's house with fire: have ye called us to take that we have? is it not so?
Judges 14:14-15 (KJV)

It seems that given the context of verse 14, the fourth day makes more sense than the seventh day. That would make KJV the one in error. Hmm...