TONGUES false teaching.

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TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
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Refer back to the post where I talked about the pastor with the large church. That will answer your question.
Do you believe your tongues is the same kind as what the apostles spoke in Acts 2? (yes/no)
 

TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
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I can see that you are very agitated. I'm sorry for pushing your buttons. Could we have a civil conversation?

In regard to the beginning history of Pentecostalism in the US, this link is a good summary of it, and I have read the same history in other sources:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/tongues-false-teaching.196454/page-12#post-4451321
But since you didn't even read all of my original post, I'll doubt you'll read that, or that you'll believe the historical record, because it makes what you do suspect.

But how about my question you didn't answer? Do you claim your tongues is the same as Acts 2?

Oh, BTW, the person that posted that isn't a believer. Nice that you would believe them, but not your brothers and sisters in Christ. Sad. [/QUOTE]
I believe what's true, no matter who is saying it. Too bad you don't. Besides, my research corroborates it.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Do you believe your tongues is the same kind as what the apostles spoke in Acts 2? (yes/no)

Answer has already been given, if you read my post the answer is there. I already told you.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Oh, BTW, the person that posted that isn't a believer. Nice that you would believe them, but not your brothers and sisters in Christ. Sad.
I believe what's true, no matter who is saying it. Too bad you don't. Besides, my research corroborates it.[/QUOTE]


It's from an unbelievers point of view, no it's not the truth. And no, your youtube vids and Dr Brown aren't proof. smh
 

TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
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Answer has already been given, if you read my post the answer is there. I already told you.
You're avoiding the answer. I don't see where you did. Do you have a link to it?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
You're avoiding the answer. I don't see where you did. Do you have a link to it?

Several posts back when I talked about the pastor who now has the large church, that's my answer, shouldn't be hard to find.
 

TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
311
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28
I believe what's true, no matter who is saying it. Too bad you don't. Besides, my research corroborates it.

It's from an unbelievers point of view, no it's not the truth. And no, your youtube vids and Dr Brown aren't proof. smh[/QUOTE]
A historical record is not a point of view, unless you don't believe the historical record, then that would be your opinion. But in regard to facts, here is one link that proves part of that historical summary I referred to:
https://www.themessedupchurch.com/blog/parhams-folly-part-2-parhams-embarrassed-missionaries

The fact is, modern Pentecostal tongues have not been real languages from the beginning. If anyone can prove that even some small part of it is real language, let them do so.
 

TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
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Several posts back when I talked about the pastor who now has the large church, that's my answer, shouldn't be hard to find.
In fact, I spent about a 1/2 hour trying to find it. I reread about a twenty pages back and couldn't find it. I searched on "pastor" and "large church" and couldn't find it. How am I to take this if you don't find it and give the link, except to conclude that you didn't say it? How hard is it to say "yes" or "no"? Are you worried that your answer has changed in the past week? (yes, this is a sarcastic statement, because you apparently are evading the question for some reason.)

Do you claim that your tongues is the same kind they received in Acts 2? (yes/no)
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
In fact, I spent about a 1/2 hour trying to find it. I reread about a twenty pages back and couldn't find it. I searched on "pastor" and "large church" and couldn't find it. How am I to take this if you don't find it and give the link, except to conclude that you didn't say it? How hard is it to say "yes" or "no"? Are you worried that your answer has changed in the past week? (yes, this is a sarcastic statement, because you apparently are evading the question for some reason.)

Do you claim that your tongues is the same kind they received in Acts 2? (yes/no)

Post 1,218 as I said, a few pages back. smh
 

TDidymas

Active member
Oct 27, 2021
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Post 1,218 as I said, a few pages back. smh
How does this answer my question? I'm asking about your tongues, not someone else's. It still appears you are evading the question.

Here is more info on the root beginnings of modern tongues:
Mary Campbell (1830, the Irvington movement) claimed to be speaking the language of the Pelew Islanders. Mary Campbell’s written-tongue was later submitted to a George Staunton and Samuel Lee, who concluded that it was not any real language at all. Soon thereafter, they began to regard their tongues as heavenly languages.... Near the end of her life, Mary Campbell recanted what she had presented herself as, which was, for all intents and purposes, the original push which got the Irvington movement started.(Benjamin Warfield; Counterfeit Miracles; The Banner of Truth Trust, h1972, pp.146-296)

So, the question again is: Do you believe YOUR tongues are the same kind as what the apostles received in Acts 2?
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Post 1,218 as I said, a few pages back. smh
Another who chooses to not see? It seems more and more that his truth is hidden from those who place their own efforts ( "my research") above seeking His guidance and illumination of scripture.
(Lean not on your own understanding, but in ALL things seek first His kingdom...)
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
How does this answer my question? I'm asking about your tongues, not someone else's. It still appears you are evading the question.

Here is more info on the root beginnings of modern tongues:
Mary Campbell (1830, the Irvington movement) claimed to be speaking the language of the Pelew Islanders. Mary Campbell’s written-tongue was later submitted to a George Staunton and Samuel Lee, who concluded that it was not any real language at all. Soon thereafter, they began to regard their tongues as heavenly languages.... Near the end of her life, Mary Campbell recanted what she had presented herself as, which was, for all intents and purposes, the original push which got the Irvington movement started.(Benjamin Warfield; Counterfeit Miracles; The Banner of Truth Trust, h1972, pp.146-296)

So, the question again is: Do you believe YOUR tongues are the same kind as what the apostles received in Acts 2?
Asked and answered. Move on.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Just reread the OP, since the divine prayer language is given by God and is between the speaker and God, if I can't understand it, it is because it is none of my business what that person is being given to say by the Creator to and for the Creator.
Sounds kind of creepy to want to know that.
 

Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
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It's from an unbelievers point of view, no it's not the truth.
With all due respect, when it comes to the study of Biblical 'tongues', whether one is born again or not is completely irrelevant. The modern phenomenon is what it is.

There are many things which must be taken on faith; they can neither be proved nor disproved. “Tongues” however, is not one of these things. They are something very tangible and concrete. Tongues can be, and have been, studied and analyzed as a phenomenon for decades (i.e. the advent of modern linguistics), with all studies yielding the same conclusion.

Literally thousands of examples of tongues-speech have been studied and not one has ever been found to be a real, rational language, living or long dead. Modern tongues-speech is non-cognitive non-language utterance, and is characterized as I detailed in one of my original posts/comments. There just isn’t anything a tongue speaker is producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms.

That said, as I mentioned in my original post, I am, not doubting or questioning the 'tongues experience'; glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound.

As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented.

Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually any other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
With all due respect, when it comes to the study of Biblical 'tongues', whether one is born again or not is completely irrelevant. The modern phenomenon is what it is.
It is not a "phenomenon". Are there people that misuse or misunderstand tongues, yes there is. But I have missionary friends, I have traveled in hundreds of churches some that were not Pentecostal, where people have spoken in tongues. I know what I have seen and experienced. To say every single person that has spoken in tongues outside the Bible is a fake is a pretty broad brush to tar over 10 million people with. All that being said, have you made your decision yet? Are you still unsure or have you moved one way or the other? Because that ought to be your biggest concern in life right now, not tongues.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,606
7,643
113
With all due respect, when it comes to the study of Biblical 'tongues', whether one is born again or not is completely irrelevant. The modern phenomenon is what it is.

There are many things which must be taken on faith; they can neither be proved nor disproved. “Tongues” however, is not one of these things. They are something very tangible and concrete. Tongues can be, and have been, studied and analyzed as a phenomenon for decades (i.e. the advent of modern linguistics), with all studies yielding the same conclusion.

Literally thousands of examples of tongues-speech have been studied and not one has ever been found to be a real, rational language, living or long dead. Modern tongues-speech is non-cognitive non-language utterance, and is characterized as I detailed in one of my original posts/comments. There just isn’t anything a tongue speaker is producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms.

That said, as I mentioned in my original post, I am, not doubting or questioning the 'tongues experience'; glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound.

As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented.

Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually any other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from.
i find this to be false, and know of several instances where the person learned their language.
 

Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
785
157
43
i find this to be false, and know of several instances where the person learned their language.
Yes, if a person learned their second (or third., etc. ) language; it's not modern tongues speech (not sure I fully understand what you're saying).
 

Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
785
157
43
t is not a "phenomenon". Are there people that misuse or misunderstand tongues, yes there is. But I have missionary friends, I have traveled in hundreds of churches some that were not Pentecostal, where people have spoken in tongues. I know what I have seen and experienced. To say every single person that has spoken in tongues outside the Bible is a fake is a pretty broad brush to tar over 10 million people with.
Phenomenon in the sense of an observable fact/situation; not in the sense of a ‘fad’.

Again, glossolalia itself is a real thing; it’s not “fake”; nor is the experience – it is something that can be explained in rather simple linguistic terms; however, not one person ‘speaking tongues’ (in the Pentecostal/Charismatic sense) is producing ‘language’. So, no, what 10 million people are producing is not ‘fake’, per se, but neither is it language of any sort.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented.
Do you "speak in tongues" in this fashion or is it simply an observation?
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,606
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Yes, if a person learned their second (or third., etc. ) language; it's not modern tongues speech (not sure I fully understand what you're saying).
No
best wishes