Total inability - original sin - inherited from adam

[Ariel82]

If you are legalistic Pharisee who thinks you are better than others then the courtroom works.


If you are a beaten and abused kid who was neglected by his parents, then the marriage paradigm works better.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation can fit both the courtroom and the marriage paradigm.

Depends on which parable you want to study and why...some medicines work better on different diseases.

and on different people. as not all are the same. Amen..

 

[Ariel82]

EG ever think about ignoring his jabs and letting God stand up for you instead? Most who know you can recognize when he goes into his delusion of actually speaking for you,

And I do call him on it but it's starting to feel like babysitting and I have a life outside of cc.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you are legalistic Pharisee who thinks you are better than others then the courtroom works.


If you are a beaten and abused kid who was neglected by his parents, then the marriage paradigm works better.

That is why, In my opinion, The legalistic pharisee will not like the courtroom example. because it judges them,, And that is their issue to begin with, they do not realize how sinful they really are..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Inability is not that big of a deal. You can't do it. But Christ can. Have faith that He will guide you in the path of Righteousness.

This is the whole crux of the matter. No, we cannot do the righteousness of the law without Christ. But the reality now is that we have Christ, so we can to the righteousness of the law. Some do not believe the latter. That's what we are calling belief in total inability.

 

[Ariel82]

That is why, In my opinion, The legalistic pharisee will not like the courtroom example. because it judges them,, And that is their issue to begin with, they do not realize how sinful they really are..

That's why they need it.

 

[Ariel82]

This is the whole crux of the matter. No, we cannot do the righteousness of the law without Christ. But the reality now is that we have Christ, so we can to the righteousness of the law. Some do not believe the latter. That's what we are calling belief in total inability.

Okay so you want to erect a straw man using the same words but different definition and then beat it up and get mad or self righteous if anyone tells you they are offended that you are beating up a straw man that looks a lot like their mother?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG ever think about ignoring his have and letting God stand up for you instead? Most who know you can recognize when he goes into his delusion of actually speaking for you,

Sis I am surprised at you,

1. I do not need God to stand up for me.. I am secure in my faith (if I was not secure, I would be acting like him)
2. It is not about me, It is about peace in this chat room (I am so angry because peace has been destroyed these past few weeks, and many good people are leaving)
3. It is about what is true. A man is sinning against many people in CC.. and he is just allowed to continue his rage and sin and no one seems to want to say anything about it..

If he was preaching atheism, or gay rights or any other thing he would have been gone along time ago. What makes his sin any less evil that the others?

He does not want to discuss the word. I think he has proven that over and over, so why is he allowed to continue to rant and rave in a DISCUSSION room?

 

[Ariel82]

Play nice or don't play together...no one is MAKING you talk to each other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's why they need it.

Oh I agree sis,, That is what the law was given for. To prove to all men, All are under sin, so the righteousness of CHRIST can be offered to all men..

But they have to humble themselves first..

 

[PeterJens]

The disconnect you are seeing is men declaring themselves to be righteous even though they act unrighteously.
There is no such thing as an unrighteous righteousness.
Make no mistake, a righteous man does what is right. (Forget where that vs. is).
Humility does not claim something that it has not yet attained to.
But it can take joy in the race!

What makes me think about such a conversation as this, is people can agree as one goes along, but actually they hold very different beliefs.

Something outside of faith many years ago struck home to me. In family psychology they discovered families get locked into ways of dealing with emotions and the pressures of life. The more healthy you were the more roles an individual took on and the more open to varied emotional life we all have inside. The locked in aspect of this view was you tended to like people who were like you, and discounted different approaches better or worse than your own. It also meant you often married people trapped in a repeating cycle of the same approaches.

It then made me realise in churches and theology similar things happen. People gravitate to positions that reinforce their emotional take on life, and disparage those they cannot handle.

The down-side of this understanding is most people are not well functioning and come from disturbed homes and ways of dealing with realities.

As a question it then popped into my mind, where does Jesus want us to be on this scale of psychological health? I would say at the top.

So part of maturing in Christ is changing how people work and relate. It can be measured and analysed, not a good idea, but it provides a template of discussion and value. As much as I dislike admitting some realities, I know these are real because I came from a very emotionally disfunctional family and have with my wife, created a very functional family.

The language in part is in scripture, but often we are too disconnected to notice.

For some this is self salvation and they hate even looking at it, let alone talking about it.
I on the other hand want anything that helps, as a tool to bring deliverance to anybody.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Play nice or don't play together...no one is MAKING you talk to each other.

I was playing nice. I tried to do what everyone asked.

But as usual, the same crap started. and it always will. Unless someone does something..

 

[Ariel82]

Sis I am surprised at you,

1. I do not need God to stand up for me.. I am secure in my faith (if I was not secure, I would be acting like him)
2. It is not about me, It is about peace in this chat room (I am so angry because peace has been destroyed these past few weeks, and many good people are leaving)
3. It is about what is true. A man is sinning against many people in CC.. and he is just allowed to continue his rage and sin and no one seems to want to say anything about it..

If he was preaching atheism, or gay rights or any other thing he would have been gone along time ago. What makes his sin any less evil that the others?

He does not want to discuss the word. I think he has proven that over and over, so why is he allowed to continue to rant and rave in a DISCUSSION room?

You want me to address your sins? You really want to go there EG cause I could do it by examining this post alone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the whole crux of the matter. No, we cannot do the righteousness of the law without Christ. But the reality now is that we have Christ, so we can to the righteousness of the law. Some do not believe the latter. That's what we are calling belief in total inability.

are you perfect?

Thats what the law demands.. So are you able to fulfill the law?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is the doctrine.....that without God man is totally unable to do good.

not much to fight over with that concept so folks will add or take away to create a straw man to beat up on.

For example..,they will assume that means folks,teach people can't do good and only see the righteousness of Christ.

Instead of simply that it is through God and His power only that we are able to do any good.

THis is exactly what people believe. It's not a straw man.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Okay so you want to erect a straw man using the same words but different definition and then beat it up and get mad or self righteous if anyone tells you they are offended that you are beating up a straw man that looks a lot like their mother?

YOu don't know what you're talking about.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

are you perfect?

Thats what the law demands.. So are you able to fulfill the law?

If you talk like that, you're under the law, not grace. I'm not under the law.

 

[Ariel82]

1. You are acting like him. When you are done with your tantrum, maybe you will see it.
2.you are disturbing the peace and if you showed more gentleness and kindness and patience and prayed more for him instead of constantly pointing out his sins (which seems so hyprocritical for some who preaches grace) then maybe he would stop jabbing at you.
3. Is false. We were having a nice discussion, but it seems if I leave the forum for a few minutes one or the other of you will poke and bite the other. Its tiring and ridiculous, but the issue is it takes 2 people to fight at this level.

I don't fight to defend myself because I know God or my big brothers and sisters will take care of the bully if they try and beat me down.

If you see him beat someone down, then protect the person by telling them the truth. If he insults YOU forgive him and pray for him,

Jesus says turn the other cheek, NOT slap them back.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree. Some people get stuck at the cross, I am saved but do not know how to progress.
I would answer this by saying it is because obedience teaches us what we are inside and gets to work changing us.
If we never obey and just do, we are saying we know better. It struck me CBT is actually what in part the gospel is about.
Action followed by emotional response, which retrains how we interact.

The enemy always wants Gods people stationary and disobedient. All they can really do is slow the process down.
What drives me now is putting these ideas and appreciation of Gods commands and wisdom into practice and counter act against false theology and heresies which disposes people from knowing the power of God working in victory in their lives.
Being brutally honest, it is a great encouragement when I see people moving forward in these things bringing glory to His name, because that is where the Kingdom of heaven is.

You have to keep another part in view when you say," we never obey and just do."
You have to juggle another ball at the same time.
If you don't do this, the result is a blind pride.
The other ball is that the words are spirit because God is Spirit.

I have never killed a person. I find that it is the easiest commandment to follow! I have always obeyed it since youth! I can say, I have at least obeyed that commandment perfectly! What is wrong with me saying I have obeyed that commandment perfectly? I have found obeying God in it to be very, very easy! I would guess about...98% of us find it to be easy. There are relatively few who are disobedient to this particular commandment.

Do you see what the result of not having that other ball to juggle with the rest leads to?

 

[Ariel82]

THis is exactly what people believe. It's not a straw man.

It is a strawman, I want to see one person agree that what you are beating up is actually what anyone on this forum believes.

No one I have talked to would ever worship your strawman but since you name it after a favorite aunt, they get mad at you.

Are you too proud to admit that you might be wrong or is that only required for "those people"?