Trinity or Unity

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riverhooks

riverhooks

Disciple
#61
Nov 23, 2021
502
105
43
#61
I think we limit God. If thought of God as a Person it would have to be one that loves a son. A deity that loves a son . This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. But God is One. You don't get one with out the other . Jesus is the Word of God getting baptized and being silent yes. Then why is the Word of God speaking from the clouds ? "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" ? When Adam fell what Happened ? The Father went after him to save him. He could not do so without condescending as in Phillipians. He took on Himself flesh and blood . " God was manifest in the Flesh", scripture says. Time is not relevant in eternity there is no past that is gone and lost and no future not yet possessed . Jesus Christ the same , yesterday and forever. Here O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord. Did Jesus say the Father is greater than I yes >when He was in the flesh. He is the brightness of the Fathers Glory in Hebrews 1. Every time you try to make God in to three persons you error. God is ONE Lord. I am . not WE ARE. Consider this, I went to an elders house after he preached Jesus raised Himself from the dead. I went to show him his error and presented / Galatians 1:1 "Jesus Christ, and God the Father who raised him from the dead > He was quite a bit older than me and knew his Bible. He said, "Brother ! in a loving rebuke . What does this mean ? "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" !! Anyway Jesus said I AM The Way the Truth and Life no man comes to the Father but by Him. and He may very well be pointing at Himself.
 
riverhooks

riverhooks

Disciple
#62
Nov 23, 2021
502
105
43
#62
Aussie52 said:
That would be the Oneness doctrine of the United Pentecostal Church, also called Modalism.
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It is what it is no matter how you label it The Godhead cannot be the Godhead without
Aussie52 said:
That would be the Oneness doctrine of the United Pentecostal Church, also called Modalism.
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That would be a label of theology. Compare scripture with scripture. If it is similiar to a specific camp . eh. ? I got no problems with scripture , theology yeah kinda.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#63
#63
After going over most of these comments again it seems that Spurgeons advice is valid; we mortals should not get ourselves distressed because we can't fully comprehend a being that is so far superior to us. This is my interpretation and distillation of a Spurgeon sermon.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#64
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#64
persistent said:
After going over most of these comments again it seems that Spurgeons advice is valid; we mortals should not get ourselves distressed because we can't fully comprehend a being that is so far superior to us. This is my interpretation and distillation of a Spurgeon sermon.
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i don't think it is difficult at all. God is not a God of confusion. trying to make One God into 3 individuals is confusing. looking at One God who simply works in 3 ways is quite simple to understand. but God to me is still Triune.

all my life in the Baptist and AoG Denominations i heard the Trinity is hard to explain. the moment i read that God is not the God of confusion, i began looking at Doctrines that people claimed to be confusing and thought it can't be of God then it has to be because of man's idealism. every time man explains and defines something, whether its God or Science, i am so confused i stop listening. it can't be of God if it confusing and can't be explained in very simple terms.
 
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persistent

Guest
#65
#65
The_Watchers_2017 said:
i don't think it is difficult at all. God is not a God of confusion. trying to make One God into 3 individuals is confusing. looking at One God who simply works in 3 ways is quite simple to understand. but God to me is still Triune.

all my life in the Baptist and AoG Denominations i heard the Trinity is hard to explain. the moment i read that God is not the God of confusion, i began looking at Doctrines that people claimed to be confusing and thought it can't be of God then it has to be because of man's idealism. every time man explains and defines something, whether its God or Science, i am so confused i stop listening. it can't be of God if it confusing and can't be explained in very simple terms.
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WOW!!Maybe wow. Does AoG stand for Assemblies of God? I have just recently been talking with a group near me calling themselves Maranatha of Evergreen Park, Illinois and am considering attending there. I like the way they pray for the Holy Spirit guidance. I watch them on You Tube. I'm new to all this so any input is appreciated.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#66
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#66
persistent said:
WOW!!Maybe wow. Does AoG stand for Assemblies of God? I have just recently been talking with a group near me calling themselves Maranatha of Evergreen Park, Illinois and am considering attending there. I like the way they pray for the Holy Spirit guidance. I watch them on You Tube. I'm new to all this so any input is appreciated.
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if you are being drawn to it through the aid of youtube, and find it to be something that seems encouraging and helpful, then you should start going to their services. i don't know what your experiences have been if you went to other Churches, so not sure what things you might be unsure of. AoG is much like Baptist but more free in their Praise and Worship. i'm not saying Baptist was bad, it was more restricted than what you will experience in an AoG Service. it's a church like most Protestant Churches that teaches and preaches Jesus Christ Crucified-Died-Buried-Resurrected. for the most part i would agree with their views. but if God is leading you to go and experience it, then you should definitely go.
 
E

emprezza

Banned
#67
Aug 22, 2022
24
2
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#67
wattie said:
Going to the Bible itself is the thing. What does it say in context?

Revelation has Jesus calling Himself the alpha and omega.. which is full diety.. a term for the Father..equality with the Father. Then Jesus speaks to the churches which is also the Spirit speaking.

At the beginning of John you've got Jesus as the Word being with God and all things being made thru Him. In Genesis you've got the Spirit of God there at the same time.

I see this as one being.. God in three expressions... at the same time.. equal.. all fully God.
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Jesus is fully God, yet begotten. As I read the Bible more, I realize that the only difference between me and Jesus is that he did not inherit Adam’s sin. He needed no reconciliation because he maintained a perfect relationship with God. So you would recognize God’s essence in him which is totally and completely aligned with the Will and purpose of God.
Once I (or any human) am reconciled with God and am without sin, once I can say that my will and purpose fully aligns with God then I too would enjoy the same status as Jesus Christ - fully God as in Psalm 82.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#68
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#68
emprezza said:
Jesus is fully God, yet begotten. As I read the Bible more, I realize that the only difference between me and Jesus is that he did not inherit Adam’s sin. He needed no reconciliation because he maintained a perfect relationship with God. So you would recognize God’s essence in him which is totally and completely aligned with the Will and purpose of God.
Once I (or any human) am reconciled with God and am without sin, once I can say that my will and purpose fully aligns with God then I too would enjoy the same status as Jesus Christ - fully God as in Psalm 82.
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I don't really see anywhere in the bible of men becoming God. In heaven we will be without sin.. but the bible doesn't call us God.

Begotten.. also doesn't mean 'born out of' .. or 'not existing before'..... this is more like heirdom.. Jesus as the 'Supreme Heir'. This is because Jesus was never not existing. He was in human form.. but also around b4 that .. pre incarnate. When God was talking to people personally .. like in the garden of Eden.. with people in a form.. was that Jesus? I would think so.

The 'ye are gods' verse in the bible is a reference to magistrates and judges. That's the context of that verse. Not that men can be God.. or 'little gods' as Benny Hinn and some others would have you believe.
 
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emprezza

Banned
#69
Aug 22, 2022
24
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#69
In John 10:34-36 jesus himself is quoting Psalm 82. Do not twist the word of God. We were created in the image and likeness of God. We are suppose to be his representative on Earth in physical form except sin was introduced into our lineage
Jesus begotten means he had a beginning. He is not eternal (no start, no end). However, he did not inherit sin so he was totally and completely aligned with the Will and purpose of God - hence the title Son of God or God himself.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#71
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
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#71
persistent said:
... I'm new to all this so any input is appreciated.
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Yet another eye opener is John 3:13.

Wow! Jesus, was on earth speaking with Nicodemus; and declares that he is in heaven at the same time.

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
 
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persistent

Guest
#72
#72
Wansvic said:
Yet another eye opener is John 3:13.

Wow! Jesus, was on earth speaking with Nicodemus; and declares that he is in heaven at the same time.

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
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Is that because Jesus is in the Father? I think there is some scripture saying that. And that there is One God.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#73
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#73
persistent said:
Is that because Jesus is in the Father? I think there is some scripture saying that. And that there is One God.
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No Jesus is NOT the Father. So here is what needs to be understood, while believing that there is only one God --the triune Godhead. There are three divine distinct persons, who are all God (not gods).

God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#74
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
#74
persistent said:
Is that because Jesus is in the Father? I think there is some scripture saying that. And that there is One God.
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Yes. The scriptures you mention are: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." (Deut. 6:4-5) “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30). “The Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:38). “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#75
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
#75
Nehemiah6 said:
No Jesus is NOT the Father. So here is what needs to be understood, while believing that there is only one God --the triune Godhead. There are three divine distinct persons, who are all God (not gods).

God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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@persistent questioned, Is that because Jesus is in the Father?... The answer is yes according to what Jesus stated in John 10:38: "But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
 
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persistent

Guest
#76
#76
Nehemiah6 said:
No Jesus is NOT the Father. So here is what needs to be understood, while believing that there is only one God --the triune Godhead. There are three divine distinct persons, who are all God (not gods).

God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
Click to expand...
I have listened to and read some fair amount of Charles Spurgeon and he said or wrote about people getting themselves "discombobulated", (my word) by trying to understand the Trinity. Spurgeon comes across as being an honest broker of religion. The way you put it makes sense to me but it seems there is also something about Jesus being "IN" the father and maybe the Father being in Jesus and maybe likewise with the Holy Spirit. Maybe something like "Indwelling" or something like that. Maybe trying to understand this is like trying to understand the virgin birth???!!! I know I'm not very astute when it comes to these matters but like Mary in Lk 2:19 I will ponder these things in my heart.
 
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persistent

Guest
#77
#77
Wansvic said:
@persistent questioned, Is that because Jesus is in the Father?... The answer is yes according to what Jesus stated in John 10:38: "But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
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I thought I saw something like that. Thanks Wansvic.
 
S

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
#78
Jun 5, 2017
403
71
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#78
Let's make this simple. Biblical verse that claims:
Jesus is NOT the Father or Holy Spirit
The Father is NOT Jesus or the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus or the Father.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#79
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#79
Nehemiah6 said:
God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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^
not debating this at all BUT where is this located at in the Bible?
or, is this what man thinks?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#80
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
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#80
The_Watchers_2017 said:
^ not debating this at all BUT where is this located at in the Bible? or, is this what man thinks?
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If you have not already "located" these truths in the Bible, then you have failed to be a serious student of the Word of God.

And the Holy Spirit reveals these truths only to those who humble themselves and believe God regardless of their own humanistic thinking. Neither the Trinity nor the deity of Christ can be grasped by the natural unregenerate person.
 
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