Trinity Questions

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,107
4,914
113
#41
No. He said and did everything the Father desired Him to say and do, and it was all said
and done for our benefit.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Amen he did this for us somwe would have a man worthy to intercede for us and someone we could Hear and know and learn from someone we could put our faith in tangibly

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no man could Know God unless he came and was born in the flesh and humbled himself preached the gospel doed and rose and sent the truth into the world so we could Hear and believe

Jesus is God made flesh , the son , and was our example who are the children of God
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,854
26,018
113
#42
Amen he did this for us somwe would have a man worthy to intercede for us and someone we could Hear and know and learn from someone we could put our faith in tangibly

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no man could Know God unless he came and was born in the flesh and humbled himself preached the gospel doed and rose and sent the truth into the world so we could Hear and believe

Jesus is God made flesh , the son , and was our example who are the children of God

Philippians 2:5-11
:)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,107
4,914
113
#43

Philippians 2:5-11
:)
“For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:10-11, 14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our God came to save us from sin and death !!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,410
12,900
113
#44
No. "Trinity" as currently defined by most is the false Roman Catholic heresy.
Since all Bible-believing Christians believe in the Trinity, that is a purely nonsensical and inflammatory statement. To call a true Bible doctrine "heresy" is to expose your own heretical ideas. Today one can easily identify a cultist by what he believe about the deity of Christ and the Trinity.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,107
4,914
113
#45
Since all Bible-believing Christians believe in the Trinity, that is a purely nonsensical and inflammatory statement. To call a true Bible doctrine "heresy" is to expose your own heretical ideas. Today one can easily identify a cultist by what he believe about the deity of Christ and the Trinity.
maybe some don’t understand it yet so they ask questions of others who do ?

maybe when we disagree on doctrinal
Points no ones a heretic but it’s a group of believers trying to learn what the Bible has to say ?

Some understand more than others , and some were taught wrong but they are here to discuss the Bible maybe people will learn ? Or are we all
Just stick where we are and should call each other heretics when we don’t agree ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,410
12,900
113
#46
maybe some don’t understand it yet so they ask questions of others who do ?
Making blatant false statements is not the same as asking questions. People do understand, but they choose to reject the truth. You can see it over and over again on Christian forums,
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,107
4,914
113
#47
Making blatant false statements is not the same as asking questions. People do understand, but they choose to reject the truth. You can see it over and over again on Christian forums,
yeah sometimes I see it other times they are just convinced of something and don’t understand yet because they have learned wrong is all I was saying.

sometimes also it’s actually us who has something wrong and we just think the other person is a heretic I see that happen a lot also reading discussions between believers in this forum.

the moment that happens it becomes fruitless was the only reason I asked those questions for you to consider

but yes sometimes people just won’t hear the truth because they are deceived and parroting false doctrine. I agree with that part.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
113
#48
When Jesus prayed to the Father, was He praying to Himself?
No.

Matthew
27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

It was needful that it be so. This was the cost of taking the sins of the world upon Himself.

At other times, Jesus' prayers were examples and lessons of how we should pray.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,425
3,475
113
#49
Jesus and God are One

I don't know why people always try to promote doctrines that deny it.. But they do..
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#50
God is one. In this, He is 3 people. If His ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are above our thoughts, is it too much to understand that He may be more than our ability to grasp? In thinking about the Infinite One, this finite being chooses to accept this by faith.
 
Dec 30, 2020
868
226
43
#51
Scripture for:
A1.,A6. Eph 3: 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
A2. Eph 1: 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
THe Father is not only the Father and God of Jesus Christ, but is the Father or source of His Holy Spirit which He indwells both spirits and humans to communicate , empower, enlighten, and perform His will. When someone is glorified, he is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit.
A3. Eph 1: 2-3 Grace be to you, and peace, from God, our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
A4. Eph 1: 19-21 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come;
It was the mighty power of the Father that raised Christ from the dead and set Him in His position of Honor in Heaven and Earth.
John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father
John 12: 49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father, who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting; whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
The Father through His Holy Spirit communicates through Christ to the point that it is actually the Father speaking through Jesus.
Isaiah 45: 11-12 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and His Maker: Ask me of things to come concerning my sons; and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me. I have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. The Lord, the Holy One of Israel, is the Christ, and His Maker is the Father.
A5. 1 Cor 15 : 27-28 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted who did put all things under Him.
The Father put all things under Jesus' feet except Himself. Even Jesus is subject unto Him because the Father's Spirit resides in Jesus and in us.
A7., A8. Deut 10: 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and awesome , who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.
John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father
The Father issues commands and the Son obeys. Why is it so difficult to understand the chain of command?
B1. Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as He by inheritance obtained a more excellant name than they.
Isaiah 43: 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe, and understand that I am He; before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. God the Father existed in Spirit before anything was formed. Christ is the first and only being formed by the Father. That is another reason He is referred to as the Son of God. Christ is the tool that the Father uses to perpetrate His will. In 1 Cor 15: 27-28 the Father puts all things under Christ's feet since all things were created by the Father through Christ. That makes Christ Lord of all creation. As a reward for His perfection and obedience to the point of becoming a human and going through suffering and death, the Father gives Him the title of a God and a kingdom made up of born again believers. No God formed before and no God will be formed after. Christ is our Lord, our Savior, and our God, but the Father is the God of all ( including Christ). Isaiah 44: 1 explains that the Lord is referring to Jacob as His servant and Israel as His chosen.
Heb1: 8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
Psalm 45: 6-7 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of thy kingdom is a right scepter. Thou lovest righteousness and hatest wickedness; therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.
THe beginning starts when the Spirit of the Father forms Christ. The Father has always existed and has no beginning.
John 1: 1-3 In the beginnng was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made.

B5,6,7,8,9 Eph 1: 22-23 And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.
Through time Christ's body is being filled with the spirits of the saints by the Father who determines when fullness is achieved.
Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There are some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.
The Son has a kingdom and therefore sits on a throne.
Rom 14: 17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
B2. Matt 3: 17 And, lo, a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
B3., B4. Matt 16: 15-16 He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
B11 Exodus 6: 2-3 And God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord; And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Christ, before He became Jesus, was very active in Old Testament times and is very active today. He is the God of the Old Testament perpetrating the Father's will then, now, and in the Future.
In Rev 22: 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
For it to mean one throne for the Father and the Lamb, it would have read but the throne of God and the Lamb. The scripture in Rev 22: 3 means but the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb.
What you have is a kingdom of the Son within the kingdom of the Father and therefore two thrones.
I'm going to continue in the direction that I'm going but stop here for you because I think this answers your question.
Jesus and God are One

I don't know why people always try to promote doctrines that deny it.. But they do..
Obviously you don't understand the meaning of " Oneness".
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,425
3,475
113
#52
Scripture for:
A1.,A6. Eph 3: 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
A2. Eph 1: 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
THe Father is not only the Father and God of Jesus Christ, but is the Father or source of His Holy Spirit which He indwells both spirits and humans to communicate , empower, enlighten, and perform His will. When someone is glorified, he is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit.
A3. Eph 1: 2-3 Grace be to you, and peace, from God, our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
A4. Eph 1: 19-21 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come;
It was the mighty power of the Father that raised Christ from the dead and set Him in His position of Honor in Heaven and Earth.
John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father
John 12: 49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father, who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting; whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
The Father through His Holy Spirit communicates through Christ to the point that it is actually the Father speaking through Jesus.
Isaiah 45: 11-12 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and His Maker: Ask me of things to come concerning my sons; and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me. I have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. The Lord, the Holy One of Israel, is the Christ, and His Maker is the Father.
A5. 1 Cor 15 : 27-28 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted who did put all things under Him.
The Father put all things under Jesus' feet except Himself. Even Jesus is subject unto Him because the Father's Spirit resides in Jesus and in us.
A7., A8. Deut 10: 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and awesome , who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.
John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father
The Father issues commands and the Son obeys. Why is it so difficult to understand the chain of command?
B1. Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as He by inheritance obtained a more excellant name than they.
Isaiah 43: 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe, and understand that I am He; before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. God the Father existed in Spirit before anything was formed. Christ is the first and only being formed by the Father. That is another reason He is referred to as the Son of God. Christ is the tool that the Father uses to perpetrate His will. In 1 Cor 15: 27-28 the Father puts all things under Christ's feet since all things were created by the Father through Christ. That makes Christ Lord of all creation. As a reward for His perfection and obedience to the point of becoming a human and going through suffering and death, the Father gives Him the title of a God and a kingdom made up of born again believers. No God formed before and no God will be formed after. Christ is our Lord, our Savior, and our God, but the Father is the God of all ( including Christ). Isaiah 44: 1 explains that the Lord is referring to Jacob as His servant and Israel as His chosen.
Heb1: 8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
Psalm 45: 6-7 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of thy kingdom is a right scepter. Thou lovest righteousness and hatest wickedness; therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.
THe beginning starts when the Spirit of the Father forms Christ. The Father has always existed and has no beginning.
John 1: 1-3 In the beginnng was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made.

B5,6,7,8,9 Eph 1: 22-23 And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.
Through time Christ's body is being filled with the spirits of the saints by the Father who determines when fullness is achieved.
Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There are some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.
The Son has a kingdom and therefore sits on a throne.
Rom 14: 17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
B2. Matt 3: 17 And, lo, a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
B3., B4. Matt 16: 15-16 He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
B11 Exodus 6: 2-3 And God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord; And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Christ, before He became Jesus, was very active in Old Testament times and is very active today. He is the God of the Old Testament perpetrating the Father's will then, now, and in the Future.
In Rev 22: 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
For it to mean one throne for the Father and the Lamb, it would have read but the throne of God and the Lamb. The scripture in Rev 22: 3 means but the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb.
What you have is a kingdom of the Son within the kingdom of the Father and therefore two thrones.
I'm going to continue in the direction that I'm going but stop here for you because I think this answers your question.


Obviously you don't understand the meaning of " Oneness".
I know Jesus is The LORD.. :)

I know Jesus the Mighty God.. :)

I know Jesus is The Everlasting Father.. :giggle:

(Isaiah 9:6) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Jesus and the Father are One..
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,437
1,856
113
#53
No.

Matthew
27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

It was needful that it be so. This was the cost of taking the sins of the world upon Himself.

At other times, Jesus' prayers were examples and lessons of how we should pray.
Are you sure?

If a person who suffers from chronic back pain, for example, says . . . "My body has forsaken me" - Is that person referring to themselves or someone else?
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#54
I know Jesus is The LORD.. :)

I know Jesus the Mighty God.. :)

I know Jesus is The Everlasting Father.. :giggle:

(Isaiah 9:6) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Jesus and the Father are One..
The confusion comes from this title, "Son of God". Of course, Jesus IS the son of God, but "son of someone/someTHING" was a common expression. Judas was called "son of perdition", and John and James were called "sons of thunder", surely "son of" in these cases can't be perceived as biological paternity, right? This simply means the perfect embodiment or personification of a particular character. In that sense, Jesus is the INCARNATE of God, that is, the "Word became flesh and dwelt among us"; and yet, He's also the Second Adam, therefore the Son of Man.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,437
1,856
113
#58
He is God.

After his incarnation, he also became a man.
How is it, then, that He was not praying to Himself? If Jesus is God in a human body, Emanuel, meaning "God is with us," then how was He not praying to Himself just as a person's body tells them through signals of pain that they are hurting? Does our body not speak to us?

I suffer from pain each day and believe me . . . my body is speaking to me much more than I'd like. But is my body not me?

When people ask me, "How are you doing?" I often say (because there are three elements to myself), "Well, my body is fair, my heart is broken, but my Spirit is strong and amazing! Are not all three still me though separate?
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
#59
Jesus and God are One.
"I and my Father are one. " (John 10:30)

And, yet, they are two:

"In the beginning was the Word, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. " (John 1:1)

Again:

"It is also written in your law, that THE TESTIMONY OF TWO MEN IS TRUE. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. " (John 8:17-18)

As far as Jesus and the Father being "one" is concerned, we need to consider the following:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE: I IN THEM, AND THOU IN ME, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:20-23)

When Jesus prayed that we may be "one", even as he and the Father are "one", was he praying that we would become God?

Of course not.

Instead, he was praying that we would be "one", AS IN UNITED, as he and the Father are "one".

In other words, there are many instances in scripture where the word "one" does NOT mean a singularity.

Instead, it oftentimes means "united".

I could easily cite some Biblical examples of this, but Jesus already gave us an example in his prayer in John chapter 17.
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
#60
How is it, then, that He was not praying to Himself? If Jesus is God in a human body, Emanuel, meaning "God is with us," then how was He not praying to Himself just as a person's body tells them through signals of pain that they are hurting? Does our body not speak to us?

I suffer from pain each day and believe me . . . my body is speaking to me much more than I'd like. But is my body not me?

When people ask me, "How are you doing?" I often say (because there are three elements to myself), "Well, my body is fair, my heart is broken, but my Spirit is strong and amazing! Are not all three still me though separate?
I get the analogy that you're attempting to make, I truly do, but I simply don't believe that it properly represents what the Bible has to say about the relationship between Jesus and the Father.

Without going into too much detail now (I really should be sleeping), I'll say that there was a MAJOR CHANGE after Jesus' incarnation.

In other words, prior to his incarnation, he was only 100% God, but after his incarnation he also became 100% man.

In his humanity, God is Jesus' Father.

However, and, sad to say, this is where I'll probably part company with some of you by simply stating what the Bible actually teaches, even in his 100% God state prior to his incarnation, Jesus and the one whom we call "Father" were NOT the same person.

I mean, this is so easily seen in passages of scripture such as John 1:1, but because people have been so indoctrinated otherwise, they simply can't see it.

Again:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

In the beginning, Jesus was WITH God, and Jesus WAS God.

They are two distinct "persons", for lack of a better word, but they have always been "one" as in "united".

The reason why people don't believe this is because of ridiculous butcherings of scripture on such topics as what it means that Jesus was "begotten".

In other words, people believe things like "Jesus sprang forth from the Father in eternity past...like a ray of light proceeding from the Sun" and other nonsensical garbage like that, but it simply isn't true.

Anyhow, this, in my own observation, is why multitudes of people believe that Jesus and the Father are the same "person", again, for lack of a better term, but they're not.

That said, they are both God, and so is the Holy Ghost/Spirit.