Trinity

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Spokenpassage

Guest
#21
You can see though how people might think you are talking about three God's when you talk about the Three Persons of the Trinity. This is one big criticism Muslims have of Christianity.
Well yea they might think that but its truth right so let them criticize, i wouldnt call Jesus a subject, Holy Ghost a subject, and the Father a person in one God. Jesus is a person just as the the other two, but yet in still they are and is One bigger person, above the plate which is the Claim and Title for Deity and Creator.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#22
You are making it worse. I would stop digging if I were you. God reveals himself in three ways but to say God is Three Persons I think is misleading.

1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

25. Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

27. 1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#23
You can see though how people might think you are talking about three God's when you talk about the Three Persons of the Trinity. This is one big criticism Muslims have of Christianity.
since when are Muslims credible critics of Christianity? ??
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#24
God in 'three persons', not God in 'three people'. There's a huge difference.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#25
since when are Muslims credible critics of Christianity? ??
They aren't but it doesn't help Christian workers in their attempts at evangelism.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#26
God in 'three persons', not God in 'three people'. There's a huge difference.
Would you like to explain what the "huge difference" is between persons and people?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#27
The difference between myself and the Reformed brigade is that the Reformed sect see the following verses as excluding people whereas I see God a God of all.

Prevenient Grace

Jeremiah 1:5 (ESV): "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you..."

Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV): "...I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee."

Ezekiel 34:11, 16 (ESV): "For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out...I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak..."

Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

John 6:44: "No man can come unto me, unless the Father who hath sent me, draw him..." (Which he does)

John 12:32: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

Romans 2:4: "...the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance..."

Philippians 2:12-13: "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God that worketh in you according to his good pleasure, both to will and to do."

1 John 4:19: "We love him, because he first loved us."

Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#28
I posted the above to the wrong thread. I tried to delete it but five minutes had gone and I couldn't sorry.
 
Jan 28, 2013
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#29
I don't necissarily see it this way, though I can understand where people take this from.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

To me, God is the Father, the One God. Lord of the Universe. Creator of all things.

Then Jesus is the Son, born of a human woman, implanted with the seed of God. A miraculous conception. Showing the Father through himself, for anyone who has seen Christ has seen the father, as their wills are as one. Jesus is He who does the will of the father who sent him. But not the same entity entirely, as Jesus speaks to God, and God to Jesus, both in the third person within scripture.

And The Holy Spirit is the Kingdom of God. God's will. God's 'attitude' for want of a better word. It's his love, patience, kindness, restraint, compasssion, forgiveness. Peace love and joy. All good things. It is what Jesus showed to the world. Hence 'If you have seen me, you have seen the father'.

And in a way, these all are one. Because the Word of God is all that we know of him, it is all that he has taught us. And Jesus personifies that word and teaching. The Law. The love. All of it is what Jesus has in him. It is the way that boht Jesus and the father 'act'. And it can be present in humans too. The apostles saw it, and cultivated it. And learnt it. And showed it. Kindness, compassion, self-sacrifice. Obedience to God.

That's my take.