Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20
- Thread starter Elizabeth619
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Here I'll give you five angles at the debate...
1. Well he obviously lacked faith and couldn't get his healing. Paul left him sick.
2. God never heals ever. So duh. He's left sick.
3. He clearly had sin in his life and hadn't repented yet. SO yeah he had to be left sick.
4. It wasn't God's time to heal him.
5. It's a sign the gifts of healing were fading out.
Now imagine all five of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.
1. Well he obviously lacked faith and couldn't get his healing. Paul left him sick.
2. God never heals ever. So duh. He's left sick.
3. He clearly had sin in his life and hadn't repented yet. SO yeah he had to be left sick.
4. It wasn't God's time to heal him.
5. It's a sign the gifts of healing were fading out.
Now imagine all five of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.
A
From what ive read of mission fields especially in
areas with occultic practices, many miracles and power
engagements went down. After the church settled the
miracles and powers abated for the most part.
Some would say that faith ceased. I say faith started.
The intent of miracles is to vindicate the message. Not
the miracles. I think with Paul the job was done. God
took away the pacifiers.
areas with occultic practices, many miracles and power
engagements went down. After the church settled the
miracles and powers abated for the most part.
Some would say that faith ceased. I say faith started.
The intent of miracles is to vindicate the message. Not
the miracles. I think with Paul the job was done. God
took away the pacifiers.
Most commentaries (Clarke's, Gill's, Wesley's for a start) that deal with it merely say that apostles do not have the power to heal at will, thus leaving someone ill is not unusual. That doesn't properly fit any of those five, but it is the prominent opinion on the mater...
Not much is said about it because its not an unusual or unexpected event.
Not much is said about it because its not an unusual or unexpected event.
G
It seems a mystery why some are not healed, but then again it also seems that faith has a lot to do with it as Jesus couldn't heal those that had no faith...and again when Jesus did heal He said "according to your faith you are healed" so maybe that means big faith = big healing , little faith = little healing and no faith = no healing.
I don't think because someone does not get healed that it means the gift has ceased because of the above.
I don't think because someone does not get healed that it means the gift has ceased because of the above.
Last edited by a moderator:
Elizabeth it was part of Paul's thorn in the flesh!
Paul's cloak healed people in a city where he forgot his cloak. When people layed the cloak on the sick, they got healed. And then Paul asks God to heal his friend and GOD DOES NOT! Three times Paul asked God to REMOVE the thorn... THEN GOD SAID.... MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT.....!
So what on earth can stop PAUL from being exalted above measures.... ONE LITTLE NO FROM GOD! And believe me this was neccesary... It was essential God said NO once to Paul, or three times for the same request if you like.... IT SHOWS GOD'S YES IS YES AND NO IS NO!... So there are quite a few lessons to be learn from Paul and Trophimus.
Paul's cloak healed people in a city where he forgot his cloak. When people layed the cloak on the sick, they got healed. And then Paul asks God to heal his friend and GOD DOES NOT! Three times Paul asked God to REMOVE the thorn... THEN GOD SAID.... MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT.....!
So what on earth can stop PAUL from being exalted above measures.... ONE LITTLE NO FROM GOD! And believe me this was neccesary... It was essential God said NO once to Paul, or three times for the same request if you like.... IT SHOWS GOD'S YES IS YES AND NO IS NO!... So there are quite a few lessons to be learn from Paul and Trophimus.
An interesting consideration since aul in his letter was urging his freinds to go totrophimus as soon as possible, before winter .
Also, as with paul, three times paul asked for the thorn to be removed, and three times the alswer was, my grace is sufficient for you.
Now, the question one must ask , is how grace is suficient?
Becuase it is!
God bless
pickles
Also, as with paul, three times paul asked for the thorn to be removed, and three times the alswer was, my grace is sufficient for you.
Now, the question one must ask , is how grace is suficient?
Becuase it is!
God bless
pickles
Pickles it is easy.. put yourself in Paul's shoes. You are Paul. You heal ALL people you ask God to heal. Even roughnecks on an island, after an ADDER bit you and you did not even flinch, because not even snake poisen can touch you. You can make the sea even into a storm. You can tell people if they leave the ship they will die... You are an amazing person God uses as a vessel to carry the Gospel to the world. And then you get to a city where a decent man is sick. This man you know by name and he is a fellow believer as yourself, so much so that you will write about him to your dearest student Timothy...
And yet after also wishing you friend heaalth, he remained sick.... Of coarse you will have to ask your Lord what this meant! And the answer God will give you, Paul, should serve as LESSONS for others, even Cobus has to know. That is why God included this in His Word!
Is it just not GRACE?
And yet after also wishing you friend heaalth, he remained sick.... Of coarse you will have to ask your Lord what this meant! And the answer God will give you, Paul, should serve as LESSONS for others, even Cobus has to know. That is why God included this in His Word!
Is it just not GRACE?