True Baptism

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MarkHasFaith

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2017
27
0
0
#1
True baptism is not by water but by the Spirit itself. So we ought not to think that water baptism can save us,
or is necessary for salvation. Our salvation comes from believing the word, that is when we are truly baptized.
That is the difference between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.
Water baptism was a picture and shadow of the true baptism. I think though that if a person believes that they need to be water baptized, then they should do it for conscious sake.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,101
979
113
#2
True baptism is not by water but by the Spirit itself. So we ought not to think that water baptism can save us,
or is necessary for salvation. Our salvation comes from believing the word, that is when we are truly baptized.
That is the difference between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.
Water baptism was a picture and shadow of the true baptism. I think though that if a person believes that they need to be water baptized, then they should do it for conscious sake.
And you would be biblical in your stance.....
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#3
I remember two years into my faith I had not been baptized in water because I wanted to wait for God to lead me to do so, many told me I needed to get baptized and hounded me to do it, eventually I did it from all that but the issue was I did it for the wrong reasons.
water baptism is apparently to show you dedication to Christ and to resemble a new you but I never understood that part, if i am to show these things do not do that by living as I do on a day to day basis?
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#4
I would just remind you the the Apostles baptized with water.
Jesus commanded them to do so.
Not necessary for salvation, but necessary if you are to follow Jesus' instruction.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#5
People want to disconnect from things that took place as if they are outdated.. God should make that call not people
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,523
419
83
#6
I would just remind you the the Apostles baptized with water.
Jesus commanded them to do so.
Not necessary for salvation, but necessary if you are to follow Jesus' instruction.
Exactly. It is not a matter of inclination and it is certainly not an option. The fact that it is in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit should automatically cause any person to sit up, take note, and request immediate baptism. Cornelius and his household did not have the advantage which we have of the entire New Testament in our hands therefore the apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized and they obeyed (Acts 10).

Sinners are aliens and enemies of God. But when they receive Christ as Lord and Savior, they also make a commitment to obey God and Christ in all things. So this is where your obedience begins -- not because you understand the significance but because it is a command (just like repentance is a command). These are the things which are not being preached and taught and commanded today, and that is why we have so many ungrounded Christians being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
 

MarkHasFaith

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2017
27
0
0
#7
I would just remind you the the Apostles baptized with water.
Jesus commanded them to do so.
Not necessary for salvation, but necessary if you are to follow Jesus' instruction.
I agree that the apostles did baptize with water but it was not commanded by Jesus. There is nothing wrong
with someone wanting to show outward dedication to Christ. In Matthew 28:19 though,
when Jesus said to go baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he was not speaking about
water baptism. He says the word teaching them, which is what he was talking about. Them going out teaching
the word and preaching. Those who would believe, would received the Spirit. That's why it says in Ephesians 1:13
after you believed the word, you were sealed with that Spirit. That's the baptism they received and ourselves.
Just as it says in Acts 10:44 that while Peter was speaking the word, the Holy Spirit fell on them that heard.
That means they believed the word that he spoke, and in believing they received the Spirit and were baptized.
The washing of water by the word.
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#8
I agree that the apostles did baptize with water but it was not commanded by Jesus. There is nothing wrong
with someone wanting to show outward dedication to Christ. In Matthew 28:19 though,
when Jesus said to go baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he was not speaking about
water baptism. He says the word teaching them, which is what he was talking about. Them going out teaching
the word and preaching. Those who would believe, would received the Spirit. That's why it says in Ephesians 1:13
after you believed the word, you were sealed with that Spirit. That's the baptism they received and ourselves.
Just as it says in Acts 10:44 that while Peter was speaking the word, the Holy Spirit fell on them that heard.
That means they believed the word that he spoke, and in believing they received the Spirit and were baptized.
The washing of water by the word.
Well you are wrong.
They were to make disciples, that is leading them to Christ as Savior, that is when the baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place.
Those who are saved are the be baptized with water.
Than they are to be taught.

May I ask you why you refuse to be baptized with water?
 

MarkHasFaith

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2017
27
0
0
#9
Well you are wrong.
They were to make disciples, that is leading them to Christ as Savior, that is when the baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place.
Those who are saved are the be baptized with water.
Than they are to be taught.

May I ask you why you refuse to be baptized with water?

I have been water baptized myself, when I was younger, but it did not mean anything to me.
For a long time I believed that I needed to get baptize with natural water for salvation
I have spoke to many people that believe that it is needed for salvation. It's not when
studying the word myself that I found out that it wasn't true. Anyone can say I accept Christ
and be baptized in water, but it does not mean that they truly believe and accept Christ and are saved,
just as myself. God revealed to me that it's when I truly believed is when I was baptized, along with
every one else.
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
64
0
#10
I agree that the apostles did baptize with water but it was not commanded by Jesus. There is nothing wrong
with someone wanting to show outward dedication to Christ. In Matthew 28:19 though,
when Jesus said to go baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he was not speaking about
water baptism. He says the word teaching them, which is what he was talking about. Them going out teaching
the word and preaching. Those who would believe, would received the Spirit. That's why it says in Ephesians 1:13
after you believed the word, you were sealed with that Spirit. That's the baptism they received and ourselves.
Just as it says in Acts 10:44 that while Peter was speaking the word, the Holy Spirit fell on them that heard.
That means they believed the word that he spoke, and in believing they received the Spirit and were baptized.
The washing of water by the word.
So Jesus did not command it, but he himself was water Baptized, so that is an example, right?

I do not believe that water baptism is needed for salvation at all. I do believe that water baptism is a outward act to demonstrate to others your old man died with Christ and the new man been raised into newness of life....this is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....

In Water Baptism the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer into the body of Christ...

In the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer into the Holy Spirit...
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#11
I have been water baptized myself, when I was younger, but it did not mean anything to me.
For a long time I believed that I needed to get baptize with natural water for salvation
I have spoke to many people that believe that it is needed for salvation. It's not when
studying the word myself that I found out that it wasn't true. Anyone can say I accept Christ
and be baptized in water, but it does not mean that they truly believe and accept Christ and are saved,
just as myself. God revealed to me that it's when I truly believed is when I was baptized, along with
every one else.
Now on that statement I agree 100%.
There is no baptism before salvation, only getting wet.:)
Now that you are saved, be baptized.
 
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#12
Get baptized in water. Everyone else did. It only takes a couple seconds.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,001
371
83
#13
I have been water baptized myself, when I was younger, but it did not mean anything to me.
For a long time I believed that I needed to get baptize with natural water for salvation
I have spoke to many people that believe that it is needed for salvation. It's not when
studying the word myself that I found out that it wasn't true. Anyone can say I accept Christ
and be baptized in water, but it does not mean that they truly believe and accept Christ and are saved,
just as myself. God revealed to me that it's when I truly believed is when I was baptized, along with
every one else.
It's odd that God told YOU that just accepting Jesus was your "baptism" when all the people that walked daily with Jesus taught water baptism at the time of "conversion"... or as close to it, time-wise, as was possible.

So, either you are quite special, or perhaps, just perhaps, you misunderstand the scriptures about baptism?

I would not normally be quite this abrupt about this topic, but you began the topic pretty abruptly dismissing out of hand the necessity of water baptism. There are too many scriptures and examples that show the necessity of it to simply come to the conclusion "I don't see the need for it, so it must be the Spirit telling me that...."
 

MarkHasFaith

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2017
27
0
0
#14
It's odd that God told YOU that just accepting Jesus was your "baptism" when all the people that walked daily with Jesus taught water baptism at the time of "conversion"... or as close to it, time-wise, as was possible.

So, either you are quite special, or perhaps, just perhaps, you misunderstand the scriptures about baptism?

I would not normally be quite this abrupt about this topic, but you began the topic pretty abruptly dismissing out of hand the necessity of water baptism. There are too many scriptures and examples that show the necessity of it to simply come to the conclusion "I don't see the need for it, so it must be the Spirit telling me that...."
You got to remember that water baptism came from the John the baptist who was under the old covenant.
It's about what it represents, it's a shadow of the true, which is by the Spirit when one believes. When Jesus
came he himself was still under the old covenant. He himself didn't need to be baptized but did it for us, so that
through the natural we can see the spiritual. Just as the outward law can bring salvation to no one, likewise
water baptism. The true baptism is from the word itself. Washing of water by the word, which is the true baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 tells us that their is one baptism. And 1Corinthians 12:13 says that by one Spirit we are baptized
into one body. So the one baptism is from the Spirit, which is the true baptism. This is what God revealed to me
from the word, which before I hadn't read and studied it. I thought that my salvation was in water baptism.
My whole point is that no one should believe that they need to be water baptized in order to receive salvation. If they
did then it would be through works, which salvation is not by works but by faith in believing.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#15
I have had two different baptisms. The first was when I became saved I was engulfed in a blazing fire that burned intensely inside me and all around me I could feel the love and power of God burning in this fire as if the flames themselves were alive and there was such life in this fire as well, it was the first and only time i ever truly known what life itself feels like it is nothing like being energetic or anything it was something I couldn't describe and to this day still cannot.

In my water baptism though I felt nothing I only did it and it was done nothing special nothing intimate with God which is what I wanting more than anything in being baptized I wanted to know a deeper intimacy with him going under that water I wanted to see and know him and to resonate with him in a unique and beautiful way with him coming out of that water baptism for me was not something to just do because that is what Jesus did or anything it meant something deeper to me but because I did it from the prompting of others I didn't do it for the right reasons
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,013
23
38
#16
The only other time I heard of this happening is on the day of Pentecost when the spirit was poured out on the disciples. There were cloven tongues like as of fire. They also spoke in tongues where all that stood by from every nation under heaven heard them speak in their own language, and these disciples were all Gallaleans. That was their first baptisim in the Spirit.. I can't explain why you did not speak in another language, only God can tell you why. If you were alone, then that might explain it, but I don't know.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,864
131
63
#17
True baptism is not by water but by the Spirit itself. So we ought not to think that water baptism can save us,
or is necessary for salvation. Our salvation comes from believing the word, that is when we are truly baptized.
That is the difference between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.
Water baptism was a picture and shadow of the true baptism. I think though that if a person believes that they need to be water baptized, then they should do it for conscious sake.
God will not be separated. The Word (Jesus) and the Spirit work together. There is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. Peter said "Repent and be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit." And God says in 1 Peter 3:21 "baptism doth save you." And we know this is water baptism, because it explains that it's not about removing dirt from the flesh. (It's not a bath). During baptism God performs circumcision of the heart. (Col 2)

Only those in Christ will be saved- that makes it the most important thing ever! Because there is only one way the Bible tells us that we get into Christ- we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3)

Baptism is obeying the gospel. The Bible says that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When we get baptized we die to our sinful self, bury our old sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised a new creature. "With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son."

Therefore, how can anyone say it's not important?
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,013
23
38
#18
They were waiting for the baptism of the holy Ghost which would not come until Jesus's departure. they knew of it.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
83
48
#19
You got to remember that water baptism came from the John the baptist who was under the old covenant.
It's about what it represents, it's a shadow of the true, which is by the Spirit when one believes. When Jesus
came he himself was still under the old covenant. He himself didn't need to be baptized but did it for us, so that
through the natural we can see the spiritual. Just as the outward law can bring salvation to no one, likewise
water baptism. The true baptism is from the word itself. Washing of water by the word, which is the true baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 tells us that their is one baptism. And 1Corinthians 12:13 says that by one Spirit we are baptized
into one body. So the one baptism is from the Spirit, which is the true baptism. This is what God revealed to me
from the word, which before I hadn't read and studied it. I thought that my salvation was in water baptism.
My whole point is that no one should believe that they need to be water baptized in order to receive salvation. If they
did then it would be through works, which salvation is not by works but by faith in believing.
I will start with a small point:
John the Baptist did not initiate water baptism - he is not the inventor!
If you have the interest to properly research this you will find that water baptism for various reasons was rather common at the time.

This brings me to the important point:
You mentioned being water baptized and having a false view of what it meant at the time.
You are correct that water baptism does not save - despite what the baptismal regenerationists try to tell us!

However, there is a VERY important reason for water baptism for those who are saved.
It is a public acknowledgment of an inner spiritual reality.
The inner spiritual reality is that at the time you were saved you were baptized by the Holy spirit into the body of Christ, and subsequently baptized by Christ into the Holy Spirit.
Water baptism then becomes the public acknowledgment of this reality!

Christianity is not a personal endeavour hidden away from the world!
We are to be public witnesses to the reality of Jesus Christ and water baptism is just one of those opportunities.
Water baptism is commanded by Jesus Christ Himself - I am sure that you know this!
It is not for nothing that water baptism is indelibly linked to Jesus Christ giving the Great Commission!

Think on these things...
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,013
23
38
#20
Jesus said he would give you the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Now tell Jesus he is a lie if you dare.