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So far what we have is: Dodging direct questions.
The reason why these questions are dodged and thrown away by "well, its not upto us, its God." is because if they are consistent that water baptism is ABSOLUTE necessity to be saved under all circumstances. They are making salvation dependant on MAN. Because you need another human to baptize you. Unless you believe you can baptize yourself, which if that is the case, fair enough.
Mind you, I am not saying water baptism is useless or not necessary, what I am saying is, Jesus' blood cleanses us from sin, which we access by faith, no man's assistance needed.
So the lessons we learned: Salvation is dependant on another human being(??? is it??? answer please), and you cannot answer questions directly. That is all.
The reason why these questions are dodged and thrown away by "well, its not upto us, its God." is because if they are consistent that water baptism is ABSOLUTE necessity to be saved under all circumstances. They are making salvation dependant on MAN. Because you need another human to baptize you. Unless you believe you can baptize yourself, which if that is the case, fair enough.
Mind you, I am not saying water baptism is useless or not necessary, what I am saying is, Jesus' blood cleanses us from sin, which we access by faith, no man's assistance needed.
So the lessons we learned: Salvation is dependant on another human being(??? is it??? answer please), and you cannot answer questions directly. That is all.
You are trying to mince words and parse for meanings that are not there.... what saved Noah? The ark? Or the flood.. the water? What represents what? 
It appears to me that Peter was saying that Noah and family were saved by an act of water.... the water was cleansing the earth of trash, and Noah and family were saved. It was a water event.
Likewise, a water event now plays a role in OUR salvation... not that it physically washes away sins, the filth of the flesh, but this water event is our appeal to God for a clear conscience.... a cleansing of our conscience... and it's available because of Jesus' resurrection. Otherwise, the baptism would be just a "dunking".
It appears to me that Peter was saying that Noah and family were saved by an act of water.... the water was cleansing the earth of trash, and Noah and family were saved. It was a water event.
Likewise, a water event now plays a role in OUR salvation... not that it physically washes away sins, the filth of the flesh, but this water event is our appeal to God for a clear conscience.... a cleansing of our conscience... and it's available because of Jesus' resurrection. Otherwise, the baptism would be just a "dunking".
The Jews religion burdened them with loads of this kind of traditions but the NT was written to differentiate between symbolism and literalism. We are literally baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and we later receive water baptism as a symbol of that baptism.
The High Priest bathed before he entered the Holy of Holies every year to offer the blood sacrifice. Judaism had many such washings which are baptisms and the source of our baptismal traditions.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would love to see your scriptural support for the assertion that Jesus had to be baptized.
You do believe that Jesus was sinless correct?
Jehovah did not give Jesus a command to be water baptized.
Tons of symbolism in Jesus baptism but Jesus was no more or no less the Son of God before or after the baptism He received from John.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You do believe that Jesus was sinless correct?
Jehovah did not give Jesus a command to be water baptized.
Tons of symbolism in Jesus baptism but Jesus was no more or no less the Son of God before or after the baptism He received from John.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
In my understanding, if you REFUSE to be baptized, you would not be eligible for salvation, because you have not really accepted Jesus. If you HAVE accepted Jesus, the very FIRST thing you will want to do is be baptized.
If you accept Jesus, and through circumstances beyond any of your control, you CANNOT be baptized, then I would assume, knowing God the way I do, however humanly limited I am, you would still receive salvation. God knows your heart, and He WANTS us all to be saved.
He also wants us to live a life of obedience, and if you thumb your nose at God, and are not baptized upon "accepting Jesus", I imagine that God knows your heart in that instance, as well. It's God's place to save, or not save....
Our place is to hear, and obey God.
If you accept Jesus, and through circumstances beyond any of your control, you CANNOT be baptized, then I would assume, knowing God the way I do, however humanly limited I am, you would still receive salvation. God knows your heart, and He WANTS us all to be saved.
He also wants us to live a life of obedience, and if you thumb your nose at God, and are not baptized upon "accepting Jesus", I imagine that God knows your heart in that instance, as well. It's God's place to save, or not save....
Our place is to hear, and obey God.
I would tell him he was ceremonially clean, as a ceremonial law that governs ceremonies(shadows of the true not seen) not moral laws that govern morals.
God is not served by human hands.
The Son of man from the tribe of Judah was baptized by a Levite an official officiator he then could become a officiator and baptized his disciples welcoming them into the priesthood of believers as ambassadors for Christ sent from a foreign land a kingdom not of this world.
Paraphrased i think he was saying ;Who officiated Jesus the Son of man so that he could administer that old testament cerimoinal law announcing their desire to be a part of the kingdom of priest.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.Joh 3:25
God is not served by human hands.
The Son of man from the tribe of Judah was baptized by a Levite an official officiator he then could become a officiator and baptized his disciples welcoming them into the priesthood of believers as ambassadors for Christ sent from a foreign land a kingdom not of this world.
Paraphrased i think he was saying ;Who officiated Jesus the Son of man so that he could administer that old testament cerimoinal law announcing their desire to be a part of the kingdom of priest.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.Joh 3:25
Blessings to you, too, brother..... I've stated many times that I do not believe the act of baptism is what saves us. We are saved only through believing and accepting the free gift of salvation that Jesus provided for us.
I also believe that baptism should, without fail, be the next part of that equation. Not tomorrow, not in a month or so, not "when I understand it better"..... but that same hour... unless, as we've discussed, there is some type of completely un-avoidable circumstance that prevents it.
In the sense that it is commanded of us, and is (or should be) a believer's first act of obedience, I say it is necessary. I believe that is what Jesus and all his disciples intended, and taught.
Paul himself is a good example of that. He was not baptized immediately upon belief... he was BLINDED. But, what did he do immediately upon regaining his sight? Before he even ate or drank, after not eating or drinking for 3 days...
I also believe that baptism should, without fail, be the next part of that equation. Not tomorrow, not in a month or so, not "when I understand it better"..... but that same hour... unless, as we've discussed, there is some type of completely un-avoidable circumstance that prevents it.
In the sense that it is commanded of us, and is (or should be) a believer's first act of obedience, I say it is necessary. I believe that is what Jesus and all his disciples intended, and taught.
Paul himself is a good example of that. He was not baptized immediately upon belief... he was BLINDED. But, what did he do immediately upon regaining his sight? Before he even ate or drank, after not eating or drinking for 3 days...
If you insist on wording the question in such a awkward way as, IS SALVATION DEPENDANT ON HAVING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING BAPTIZING YOU, YES OR NO? I will answer it as such.
According to many verses in the bible baptism is required for salvation and since there are no examples of baptizing yourself the answer is rather simple, yes. Your attempts at making the question awkward is obvious.
If believing in Jesus is Lord is absolute for salvation, what about the natives in the jungles of New Guinea who have never heard of Jesus or the bible? What about those who die young before getting the chance to hear to gospel? What about those who cannot speak and confess Jesus is Lord? What about the still born or aborted children?
If believing Jesus is Lord is absolute what about them? Are they saved? YES or NO?
Is salvation dependant on having another human being teach you the gospel of Jesus Christ?
According to many verses in the bible baptism is required for salvation and since there are no examples of baptizing yourself the answer is rather simple, yes. Your attempts at making the question awkward is obvious.
If believing in Jesus is Lord is absolute for salvation, what about the natives in the jungles of New Guinea who have never heard of Jesus or the bible? What about those who die young before getting the chance to hear to gospel? What about those who cannot speak and confess Jesus is Lord? What about the still born or aborted children?
If believing Jesus is Lord is absolute what about them? Are they saved? YES or NO?
Is salvation dependant on having another human being teach you the gospel of Jesus Christ?
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Scriptural support?
How about Jesus Himself:
"Jesus answered, "For now this is how it should be, because we must do all God wants us to do." Matthew 3:15 CEV
This is why Jesus was baptized, "because we must do all God wants us to do".
Whatever the purpose, Jesus knew He must be baptized. None of your esoteric understandings will change this.
Jesus was obedient to all that His Father commanded, are we any different?
How about Jesus Himself:
"Jesus answered, "For now this is how it should be, because we must do all God wants us to do." Matthew 3:15 CEV
This is why Jesus was baptized, "because we must do all God wants us to do".
Whatever the purpose, Jesus knew He must be baptized. None of your esoteric understandings will change this.
Jesus was obedient to all that His Father commanded, are we any different?
I will show you how to answer questions now, maybe it is high time you learn how to answer a question, lets go! (Take notes)
The natives in the jungles can find God like Abraham found God. The Lord is nigh unto all that seek!
As for those who die, it depends on if they have sinned yet or not. Someone who is just born obviously has not done anything yet good nor bad. They have not sinned, nor exercised faith. So my honest answer to this is I do not know.
Those who cannot speak can confess the Lord, there is sign language, typing and things like that.
As for the still born and aborted I have no idea, Scripture is silent on this, perhaps they get a free pass since they have not done any good or bad? Shall not the judge of all the earth do right as Abraham said.
No one will be saved outside of Christ is my answer.
No human assistance required, God saves.. God is nigh unto all that seek Him. Paul was taught the Gospel directly by Christ.
The natives in the jungles can find God like Abraham found God. The Lord is nigh unto all that seek!
As for those who die, it depends on if they have sinned yet or not. Someone who is just born obviously has not done anything yet good nor bad. They have not sinned, nor exercised faith. So my honest answer to this is I do not know.
Those who cannot speak can confess the Lord, there is sign language, typing and things like that.
As for the still born and aborted I have no idea, Scripture is silent on this, perhaps they get a free pass since they have not done any good or bad? Shall not the judge of all the earth do right as Abraham said.
No one will be saved outside of Christ is my answer.
No human assistance required, God saves.. God is nigh unto all that seek Him. Paul was taught the Gospel directly by Christ.
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Mt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
So as scripture teaches the water baptism of Jesus was symbolic and not efficacious. It was for the fulfillment of righteousness before the Pharisees and the religious rules of Judaism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
So as scripture teaches the water baptism of Jesus was symbolic and not efficacious. It was for the fulfillment of righteousness before the Pharisees and the religious rules of Judaism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Bible does not say we can "find God like Abraham". Salvation comes through Jesus Christ not Abraham. I asked for a YES OR NO answer.
On those too young to believe, "I just don't know" is not a YES or NO answer.
Sign language is not confessing with you mouth. Still no YES or NO answer.
On the still born and aborted, "perhaps they get a free pass." That is not a YES or NO answer.
"No one will be saved outside of Christ is my answer". I asked for a YES of NO answer. Now you offer this as a YES or NO answer?
And you are going to school me on answering questions?
Four yes or no questions and you answer none of them with a yes or no.
If belief in Jesus Christ is absolute none of your answers makes sense.
On those too young to believe, "I just don't know" is not a YES or NO answer.
Sign language is not confessing with you mouth. Still no YES or NO answer.
On the still born and aborted, "perhaps they get a free pass." That is not a YES or NO answer.
"No one will be saved outside of Christ is my answer". I asked for a YES of NO answer. Now you offer this as a YES or NO answer?
And you are going to school me on answering questions?
Four yes or no questions and you answer none of them with a yes or no.
If belief in Jesus Christ is absolute none of your answers makes sense.